Who is the Slush Pile reader?

Bufty

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Bye- bye. :hi: Surprised you managed to keep quiet for so long.

The slush pile reader is doing it for credit at a community college. She writes poems that don't rhyme, and short fiction, all about vampires. She's got whole paragraphs in her Twilight paperbacks highlighted. She, uhhh ... talks kinda like this, y'know? And she's looking for a boyfriend on geek2geek (her profile has no pic). Impress her and the literary world will be at your feet.
 

Stacia Kane

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You know...

I know all about not feeding. :) But I have to say this: I'm sick and tired of seeing TWILIGHT's publication used as evidence that publishing is just wrong or "broken" or that the fact someone likes it means they're idiots or, especially, the fact that someone in publishing likes it means trying to publish anything good is a waste of time or whatever.

You might think TWILIGHT is badly written shit. I might think TWILIGHT is badly written shit. So what? Publishing is a business. The fact remains, and always will remain, that an agent and editor read TWILIGHT and thought, "Hey, I think a lot of readers would really enjoy this story. I think this would sell quite well."

Guess what? They were right.


So that book people keep pointing at as "proof" that slush readers/agents/editors/etc. have no idea what they're doing when it comes to providing readers with books they'll enjoy? Actually proves exactly the opposite.

Guess what else? Those same readers who love TWILIGHT? Are the same ones who'll be looking at your book on the shelves and deciding whether or not to buy and/or read it. Their tastes drive the industry, not the other way around.


And that same industry that published TWILIGHT also published Franzen, King, Gaiman, Lessing, Morrison, Burroughs...take your pick.
 

Old Hack

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Nicely said, Stacia.
 

Buffysquirrel

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Yep, Twilight is proof that the system works. And that snobs like me probably are on the outside for a reason.
 

Timmy V.

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You know...

I know all about not feeding. :) But I have to say this: I'm sick and tired of seeing TWILIGHT's publication used as evidence that publishing is just wrong or "broken" or that the fact someone likes it means they're idiots or, especially, the fact that someone in publishing likes it means trying to publish anything good is a waste of time or whatever.

You might think TWILIGHT is badly written shit. I might think TWILIGHT is badly written shit. So what? Publishing is a business. The fact remains, and always will remain, that an agent and editor read TWILIGHT and thought, "Hey, I think a lot of readers would really enjoy this story. I think this would sell quite well."

Guess what? They were right.


So that book people keep pointing at as "proof" that slush readers/agents/editors/etc. have no idea what they're doing when it comes to providing readers with books they'll enjoy? Actually proves exactly the opposite.

Guess what else? Those same readers who love TWILIGHT? Are the same ones who'll be looking at your book on the shelves and deciding whether or not to buy and/or read it. Their tastes drive the industry, not the other way around.


And that same industry that published TWILIGHT also published Franzen, King, Gaiman, Lessing, Morrison, Burroughs...take your pick.



Yay I'm one of the those low brows who love Twilight. Exactly exactly "tastes drive the industry, not the other way around" Fabulous.

Stacia I worship the ground you walk on ever since you recommended Dorothy Brande's "Becoming a Writer" on a past post. I love love love that book.

Many people in the writing community have been calling Stephen King's books crap for years too. oh please. Millions of readers loves him.
 

LindaJeanne

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I use Twilight as an example of how bad I'D be at predicting what would sell. Because I'd have said there was absolutely no market for books about emotionally-abusive stalker-boyfriends who also happen to be sparkly vampires. I mean, who who would read that?

Well, a LOT of people, clearly. So I'd have passed on a runaway best seller: we don't like their sound, and guitar music is on it's way out. :Shrug:


A relative of mine used to work as the assistant for a literary agent in New York, and part of her job was reading slush. She gave the agent anything she thought had the slightest chance of being accepted -- but that was only about 5% of what she received.

By her estimation, IIRC, if your cover letter:
  • Is comprehensible, without multiple grammatical and spelling errors
  • Indicates that your book is of a genre/subject that the agent covers
  • Does not have any strong red flags that you are dangerously mentally unstable or disconnected from reality
Then you are already ahead of 80% of the pack.

Of the rest, it usually only took a page or two to see if it had a chance of acceptance.

She respected that every single submission (no matter how awful it may seem) represented a huge amount of time, effort, and concern on someone's part, and she didn't want to be the reason something didn't get accepted. She let everything through to the agent that she thought had even the slightest chance of acceptance.
 

James D. Macdonald

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I keep saying that if you can write two consecutive pages of grammatical English prose, using standard spelling and punctuation, then you're already in the top 10% of the slush pile.

If you can do that, and also find an appropriate market to send it to, you're probably in the top 5%.
 
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mistri

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I read slush when I was an editorial assistant. Gah, I've just realised that was ten years ago now. Man, I'm old.

Anyway, all the editorial assistants and assistant editors read slush, it would alternate every day as to who got it, but you'd normally get around 15mss each time - these were partial manuscripts because we accepted 3 chapters unsolicited.

If you didn't have time because you were busy it could build up pretty quick, and then we occasionally had 'slush parties' where we'd all gather together in a meeting room, drink lots of tea, eat biscuits, and not answer the phones for an afternoon. It also meant you could get feedback from other people if you weren't sure about something.

Most of the time though, you were on your own. I was desperate to find a slush author so I wouldn't be put off by a newbie reading your material. They are often more positive than more experienced editors.

If I liked a partial, I'd request the full, and if I thought that was good I'd request revisions or pass straight to a senior editor. I quickly learnt there was no point passing them on unless they were excellent.

The trouble was you'd read so many poor manuscripts that when I first started even the average ones stood out.

However a couple of years later and I regularly rejected partials within the first few paragraphs or pages. Some were bad - but most were 'boring' which is the hardest thing for writers to fix! This is something I worry about in my own writing today.

In the end I did pick a few authors out of the slush, one who went on to do very well indeed, and I kind of miss doing it now :)
 

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In the end I did pick a few authors out of the slush, one who went on to do very well indeed, and I kind of miss doing it now :)

It's always reminded me a bit of beach combing; you walk for miles, and find some interesting pieces of glass, or maybe an almost perfect shell, or half a sand dollar, and that goes on for days and days.

And then one day, you find a gorgeous olive shell, or an alphabet cone, or maybe a Junonia.
 

Buffysquirrel

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I would love to have a go at novel slush, after so much time in the short-story trenches.
 

Becky Black

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I suppose the question about why do people submit really terrible stuff to publishers, is the same as why do people who can't sing at all audition for The X-Factor and simlilar shows? Some people are convinced they can write/sing/dance or whatever. In same cases nobody has done them the kindness of taking them aside and telling them they really can't-not without a lot more work at least. But in other cases people have told them they can't but they remain convinced of their genius and even rejection from the gatekeepers won't convince them otherwise. You only have to read something like the Slush Pile Hell blog for a while to know that some people submitting books appear to be delusional.

While reading slush must be disheartening I suppose it's one of those "paying your dues" kind of jobs for people who want to work in publishing. Like if you want to be a journalist you're going to spend lots of time updating obits or covering village flower shows before you're interviewing cabinet ministers and covering headline stories.

And I'd think the way they stay motivated it that they must surely want to be the one who's the first to spot a book that later goes on to be a critically acclaimed, prize-winning best seller.
 

Denise Scoubidou

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Yay I'm one of the those low brows who love Twilight. Exactly exactly "tastes drive the industry, not the other way around" Fabulous.

Stacia I worship the ground you walk on ever since you recommended Dorothy Brande's "Becoming a Writer" on a past post. I love love love that book.

Many people in the writing community have been calling Stephen King's books crap for years too. oh please. Millions of readers loves him.

"No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." -- H.L. Mencken
 
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Karen Junker

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When I was an editor for a small romance publisher, there was someone who read all the queries and rejected those that were not romances. Everything else, I read and either accepted or rejected with detailed comments.

Medi's right -- there are some really, really good books out there, but they're rare.
 

Buffysquirrel

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When I was an editor for a small romance publisher, there was someone who read all the queries and rejected those that were not romances.

I'm now curious as to what percentage were not romances.
 

tamara

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Some people are convinced they can write/sing/dance or whatever... But in other cases people have told them they can't but they remain convinced of their genius and even rejection from the gatekeepers won't convince them otherwise. You only have to read something like the Slush Pile Hell blog for a while to know that some people submitting books appear to be delusional.

I read the below article when it was published 12 years ago, and it's haunted me ever since.

Short version: A study showed that people who believe they are the most competent are often the least competent.

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Incompetent-People-Really-Have-No-Clue-Studies-2783375.php
 

Old Hack

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I'm now curious as to what percentage were not romances.

When I ran a slush pile, at least half of the submissions I received were in genres we didn't publish. Possibly a lot more. You'd be amazed how little research some writers do before submitting their work.
 

Buffysquirrel

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When I ran a slush pile, at least half of the submissions I received were in genres we didn't publish. Possibly a lot more. You'd be amazed how little research some writers do before submitting their work.

Half? Woah. Although I did have some experience of how annoying writers can be when editing a themed issue of GUD and having countless submissions that had nothing to do with the theme. I guess I thought novelists might try harder--given the timescales involved, if nothing else.
 

Phaeal

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Half? Woah. Although I did have some experience of how annoying writers can be when editing a themed issue of GUD and having countless submissions that had nothing to do with the theme. I guess I thought novelists might try harder--given the timescales involved, if nothing else.

I think this relates to the self-delusion: Okay, so my book isn't what they're asking for, but damn it, once they READ it, they'll change their minds! They'll change the theme of the issue or anthology! They start a new house, just to publish ME! Also, my book will appeal to every person on the planet (and some off it), so why wouldn't they fall all over themselves accepting it?

Or, in the less florid form of this delusion: It's not what they're asking for, but YOU NEVER KNOW.
 

Torgo

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When I ran a slush pile, at least half of the submissions I received were in genres we didn't publish. Possibly a lot more. You'd be amazed how little research some writers do before submitting their work.

I worked for a children's publisher once, one which mainly did picture books, and I was once sent someone's collection of dirty seaside postcards to publish. A collection they didn't even have rights in.
 

Cyia

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Or - conceivably - the publisher who receives the MS has a name that's extremely similar to one who actually publishes the kind of MS that was sent. Accidents can happen.
 

fadeaccompli

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When I ran a slush pile, at least half of the submissions I received were in genres we didn't publish. Possibly a lot more. You'd be amazed how little research some writers do before submitting their work.

My goodness. I guess I'm lucky in doing slush reading for a small market that requires a little more effort to find and submit to; I'd say that maybe one in twenty of the submissions I read are completely outside the guidelines, in any of genre/length/nature.
 

LindaJeanne

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I think this relates to the self-delusion: Okay, so my book isn't what they're asking for, but damn it, once they READ it, they'll change their minds! They'll change the theme of the issue or anthology! They start a new house, just to publish ME! Also, my book will appeal to every person on the planet (and some off it), so why wouldn't they fall all over themselves accepting it?

Or, in the less florid form of this delusion: It's not what they're asking for, but YOU NEVER KNOW.

I suspect that the biggest culprits are the ones who think "It's a numbers game".

"Only X% of submitted manuscripts get published, therefore on average you need to submit your manuscript to Y publishers to have a chance". But "Y" is much larger than the number of appropriate publishers or agents, so they spam everyone, figuring that gives them more opportunities to "win".

As though it were a lottery. (Which may explain why these same folks thing the system is set up against them, in the same way that the lottery system is a losing game. hmm....)
 

Kayley

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What's a slush pile mean ? :chair

As far as I'm aware, it's the collection of unsolicited manuscripts that a publishing company receives and has to sift through. Since they receive so many submissions, the company has little time to spend on each one. Therefore, it's usually not good to be stuck in the slush pile; it means your MS is buried under the loads of other MSs with which the publisher has to deal.
 

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Agents tend to have larger slush piles than the big publishers, as most of the big publishers don't accept unsolicited manuscripts any more.

To give you some perspective on the size of the pile, the agents I've asked about this get 100 or more submissions each week, and take on perhaps two or three new clients each year.