Republican candidate says rape pregnancy is like having a baby out of wedlock

Zoombie · Aug 27, 2012

Yeah, pretty much.

Gee, I'm sure glad that these people can send people with guns to make me do what they say...or, more accurately, tell my sisters, my friends, my mother, my aunt, my nieces and my future daughters and wives (if I have any) what to do.

Of course, what happens to my fellow Americans has an indirect and serious impact on me too...

So, what I'm saying is...fuck this guy and fuck the high horse he rode in in and fuck the Republican party until they get their fucking act together and clean house.

Preferably with a fire hose.

muravyets · Aug 27, 2012

blacbird said:
Everybody remember we already have a big bunch of these people serving in high elective public office: Bachmann, Akin, DeMint, Imhofe, Cornyn, Jim King, Paul Ryan, Duncan Hunter . . . the list goes on and on and on. And they differ on this issue (and many others) not one charmed quark from this guy.

That's just it, isn't it? The make-believe has failed. It's like somehow -- I'm not sure exactly how it happened -- the stage curtain fell down and all the actors running around, gargling and changing clothes, etc., backstage are exposed to view, and they're all stumbling around trying to get into character and mouth their lines real quick-like.

And they're not doing very well.

blacbird · Aug 27, 2012

Zoombie said:
So, what I'm saying is...fuck this guy and fuck the high horse he rode in in and fuck the Republican party until they get their fucking act together and clean house.

Preferably with a fire ~~hose~~.

Edited for correctness in descriptive detail.

caw

Zoombie · Aug 27, 2012

I originally typed "machine gun", but that's...too violent.

Actually, what I'd prefer to see would be a mass exodus.

regdog · Aug 28, 2012

I can't imagine the overcrowding in Stupidtown.

Don · Aug 28, 2012

blacbird said:
Everybody remember we already have a big bunch of these people serving in high elective public office: Bachmann, Akin, DeMint, Imhofe, Cornyn, Jim King, Paul Ryan, Duncan Hunter . . . the list goes on and on and on. And they differ on this issue (and many others) not one charmed quark from this guy.

Um, that would be the same gang that recently took over health care, right? The joke's on us, I guess.

KellyAssauer · Aug 28, 2012

Chrissy said:
Another ignoramus opens his mouth.

That is all.

Fear for my safety.

~Seriously~

That's Tom Smith, one of my choices for US Senate here in the wonderful Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

*Same people that brought you Rick Santorum & Tom Corbett*

I'm beginning to think it's in the water...

*Actually... I know it is over in Dimock*

GeorgeK · Aug 28, 2012

DarthPanda said:
See, I took it as "no matter how the illegitimate child was created, its existence still besmirches my honor by being living testimony of my daughter's lack of chastity."

Because, y'know, girls are supposed to remain virgins until their daddies give them away at the wedding to their new ~~owner~~ husband. Any evidence to the contrary reflects poorly on daddy, because he either couldn't control her, or didn't raise her right and she went out and got herself raped. And since this dude assumes that all single mothers are sluts, he figures that's what everyone else will be thinking about his daughter. And that embarrasses him. Which is the real issue here, of course: the father's discomfort. Put yourself in the father's position. Because fathers are the true victims in the case of rape-babies and bastards, really.

God. I need a drink.

Maybe pour me one too. I've tried rereading his statement and I keep getting more confused.

TerzaRima · Aug 28, 2012

And I can promise you the thought of his baby girl ever growing up and having sex tears him apart.

Heh, I think that's a pretty normal feeling for most parents, moms and dads alike.

Can someone who is a parent parse this one for me? I did not have the stereotypical dad who joked about running my suitors off with guns, and so this father-daughter thing always surprises me a little. You never hear a mom saying, "This little guy isn't going to date until he's 35"!

DarthPanda · Aug 28, 2012

TerzaRima said:
Can someone who is a parent parse this one for me? I did not have the stereotypical dad who joked about running my suitors off with guns, and so this father-daughter thing always surprises me a little. You never hear a mom saying, "This little guy isn't going to date until he's 35"!

I was just saying that it's pretty common for people in general to be mortified by the idea of their babies (and/or parents) being sexual. Not in a necessarily oppressive way, although there's definitely a double-standard in many households when it comes to that stud/slut "boys will be boys" attitude toward teens.

And from Alpha Echo's full statement and the context of the reply, I assume she also meant that while her husband didn't share the senator's misogynistic outlooks, he still doesn't relish the thought of his little baby growing up and doing sexy-sexy adulty things.

RichardGarfinkle · Aug 28, 2012

TerzaRima said:
Can someone who is a parent parse this one for me? I did not have the stereotypical dad who joked about running my suitors off with guns, and so this father-daughter thing always surprises me a little. You never hear a mom saying, "This little guy isn't going to date until he's 35"!

DarthPanda said:
I was just saying that it's pretty common for people in general to be mortified by the idea of their babies (and/or parents) being sexual. Not in a necessarily oppressive way, although there's definitely a double-standard in many households when it comes to that stud/slut "boys will be boys" attitude toward teens.

And from Alpha Echo's full statement and the context of the reply, I assume she also meant that while her husband didn't share the senator's misogynistic outlooks, he still doesn't relish the thought of his little baby growing up and doing sexy-sexy adulty things.

Talking as a father. There is a confusion between the parental need to deal with sexual activity on the part of children and the creepy imagination about ones children.

The thing is that my children being careful and not doing anything reckless is my concern. I don't spend my time and imagination visualizing what they are or could be doing. That I teach them to take care is my job. The rest is creepy and intrusive.

veinglory · Aug 28, 2012

I would really hope that any father would see a huge difference between supporting their daughter as an unmarried pregnant woman, and supporting their daughter as a pregnant rape surviving woman (or, respectively, girl).

Yorkist · Aug 28, 2012

According to Paul Ryan, rape is just another "method of conception."

These ass clowns are almost funny once you get them off their talking points. Is there a government sterilization camp yet? ~~I'm thinking about signing up~~ *remembers sci-fi* Oh wait, that's a pretty good way to get impregnated against my will by the overlords, nevermind. The GOP does need to figure out what to do about all those frozen embryos in fertility clinics, after all.

Dammit.

Seriously though. If anyone is curious about where this legislation actually comes from - the rape wands, etc. - the bills are being written by AUL, an organization not unlike ALEC, the corporate bill mill.

As moronic as the people this country votes into office generally seem to be, and as much as they seem to have forgotten the crappy economy they were supposedly elected to try to fix, perhaps an overriding concern is that congresspeople tend to no longer write or research their own bills, but rather outsource them to agenda-driven lobbyists.

Also, everything that Zoom said upthread, +1.

Zoombie · Aug 28, 2012

These people DO make an astoundingly good argument for anarchy, though...

Shadow Dragon · Aug 28, 2012

Zoombie said:
These people DO make an astoundingly good argument for anarchy, though...

Not really. En mass, we haven't been smart enough to see through their bull or simply too apathetic to care. If you get rid of this system without completely overhauling society and human nature, we'd just end up putting up another system with new agenda driven idiots.

Zoombie · Aug 28, 2012

It just pisses me off that if these guys win - and it looks like they're doing their damnest - our options are...to basically go, "Well, GEE, that sucks." And then work to try and change the legislation.

It's unfair and it's not right for laws to be imposed on people without their representation or consent. That's the fucking problem with this system right now: The connection between the PEOPLE and the GOVERNMENT is getting frayed and screwed up by money and monied interests.

Hence why I'm feeling more and more like taking a goddamn flamethrower to the thing every day.

Because...it doesn't matter that they're out of touch, power hungry, sociopathic fuckwits who think that rape can be shrugged off and that women are babymakers that don't deserve any rights. They have the guns and we've all decided that, "OH! Well, they're the government, so they have a right to do this. Even if it's wrongheaded and stupid in every sense of the word."

And yes, I know...I know we can vote them out of office, but...we'd still have the same fundamental problem that a MINORITY of people are making decisions about what the MAJORITY of people are allowed to do. And that is wrong.

KellyAssauer · Aug 28, 2012

Shadow Dragon said:
we'd just end up putting up another system with new agenda driven idiots.

agenda driven idiots...
rapists,
agenda driven idiots...
rapists,
agenda driven idiots...

Is it just me...?

Monkey · Aug 28, 2012

Note that there is an update to the article in the OP. Smith, predictably claims to have been "misconstrued."

The woman who was pregnant out of wedlock was not his daughter.

Anaquana · Aug 28, 2012

Yorkist said:
According to Paul Ryan, rape is just another "method of conception."

As much as I dislike Paul Ryan and pretty much every stance he has, I really wish people would stop making this an issue. His exact words were: "The method of conception does not change the definition of human life." He's not saying that it's a good method nor is he condoning rape, IMO.

Didn't we just have a big hullabaloo last week when Akin said that women can't get pregnant from rape? Which is it? Can women get pregnant from rape or can't they? If they can, then rape is a method of conception. A horrible, despicable method of conception, but a method nonetheless.

muravyets · Aug 28, 2012

I'm considering wading into the mire of pointing out that rape is not a method of conception because rape is a crime far broader in definition than bringing a penis to climax inside a vagina.

A man climaxing inside the vagina of a woman is a method of conception, however he might have got in there. But that's not really the part that the word "rape" refers to.

So, by that technicality, this is yet another thing Paul Ryan is wrong about. This time, his error is in using a broad word to refer only to a narrow subset of its various meanings.

Of course, arbitrarily limiting the definition of rape to suit their own purposes is the weak glue he and Akin tried to use to hold their "forcible rape" bill together, so hey, I guess we shouldn't be surprised.

Anyway, I was considering getting into all that right now, but I guess it would be a derail, and I still have to finish cleaning my studio before bed, so... maybe later.

ETA: Also, Monkey, do you have the link to that? I don't want to see it in context, but I feel like I have to.

RichardGarfinkle · Aug 28, 2012

Anaquana said:
As much as I dislike Paul Ryan and pretty much every stance he has, I really wish people would stop making this an issue. His exact words were: "The method of conception does not change the definition of human life." He's not saying that it's a good method nor is he condoning rape, IMO.

Didn't we just have a big hullabaloo last week when Akin said that women can't get pregnant from rape? Which is it? Can women get pregnant from rape or can't they? If they can, then rape is a method of conception. A horrible, despicable method of conception, but a method nonetheless.

There is a difference between asserting the commonality and dismissing the differences. Method of conception as a phrase is cold, clinical, and indifferent to the human suffering of rape.

Method also carries overtones of deliberate action. The implication is that rape is just another means to bring about new life, no different in character from any of the other means.

It's equivalent to saying that slavery is just another means of job allotment.

Or that cannibalism is just another means of food procurement.

Need I go on?

Anaquana · Aug 28, 2012

Sorry, but I will have to agree to disagree here. I think it's silly to get up in arms over Paul Ryan's comment. I understand what he was saying and, while I disagree with his overall point, I don't find it offensive or anything to be upset over.

*shrugs*

But if you want to make it an issue, have at it.

muravyets · Aug 28, 2012

Thanks, will do.

RichardGarfinkle · Aug 29, 2012

Anaquana said:
Sorry, but I will have to agree to disagree here. I think it's silly to get up in arms over Paul Ryan's comment. I understand what he was saying and, while I disagree with his overall point, I don't find it offensive or anything to be upset over.

*shrugs*

But if you want to make it an issue, have at it.

I'm examining Ryan's statement from a writing perspective. One of the most effective ways to take control of discourse is to frame discussions in such a way as to diminish the importance of other viewpoints.

The framing of this discussion (rape exceptions in anti-abortion laws) has up until recently focused on rape as a criminal act that removes all choice from the victim.

Because of that even those who asserted that having sex meant you deserved the consequences found themselves caught up short.

Ryan is reframing the debate so that rape simply enters a pool of possible conception methods. This perspective completely eliminates the life of the woman from the discourse. She is now nothing but a womb, a vehicle for the real subject of concern.

Alpha Echo · Aug 29, 2012

TerzaRima said:
Can someone who is a parent parse this one for me? I did not have the stereotypical dad who joked about running my suitors off with guns, and so this father-daughter thing always surprises me a little. You never hear a mom saying, "This little guy isn't going to date until he's 35"!

DarthPanda said:
I was just saying that it's pretty common for people in general to be mortified by the idea of their babies (and/or parents) being sexual. Not in a necessarily oppressive way, although there's definitely a double-standard in many households when it comes to that stud/slut "boys will be boys" attitude toward teens.

And from Alpha Echo's full statement and the context of the reply, I assume she also meant that while her husband didn't share the senator's misogynistic outlooks, he still doesn't relish the thought of his little baby growing up and doing sexy-sexy adulty things.

Yes, this is exactly what I'm saying. My husband is extremely conservative when it comes to his baby girl, and he knows how he was and still is when it comes to sex. (No complaints from his wife, mind you.

). He doesn't ever want his baby girl to think about sex until long after she's married to a respectable man. LOL. Meaning a man that he likes and treats her well.

RichardGarfinkle said:
Talking as a father. There is a confusion between the parental need to deal with sexual activity on the part of children and the creepy imagination about ones children.

The thing is that my children being careful and not doing anything reckless is my concern. I don't spend my time and imagination visualizing what they are or could be doing. That I teach them to take care is my job. The rest is creepy and intrusive.

I'm not saying we think about her having sex and picture it. No, of course not. But we worry, as parents, that maybe we won't raise her right. Maybe she won't take what we say to heart or learn from our mistakes. This goes into every area of life, but especially when it comes to members of the opposite sex. For me, I just hope she's open and trusts us, or at least me, enough to talk to me about it and understand that she needs to use discretion and protection.

veinglory said:
I would really hope that any father would see a huge difference between supporting their daughter as an unmarried pregnant woman, and supporting their daughter as a pregnant rape surviving woman (or, respectively, girl).

I would too, but it seems these far right extremists don't.

Zoombie said:
It just pisses me off that if these guys win - and it looks like they're doing their damnest - our options are...to basically go, "Well, GEE, that sucks." And then work to try and change the legislation.

It's unfair and it's not right for laws to be imposed on people without their representation or consent. That's the fucking problem with this system right now: The connection between the PEOPLE and the GOVERNMENT is getting frayed and screwed up by money and monied interests.

Hence why I'm feeling more and more like taking a goddamn flamethrower to the thing every day.

Because...it doesn't matter that they're out of touch, power hungry, sociopathic fuckwits who think that rape can be shrugged off and that women are babymakers that don't deserve any rights. They have the guns and we've all decided that, "OH! Well, they're the government, so they have a right to do this. Even if it's wrongheaded and stupid in every sense of the word."

And yes, I know...I know we can vote them out of office, but...we'd still have the same fundamental problem that a MINORITY of people are making decisions about what the MAJORITY of people are allowed to do. And that is wrong.

I agree with every word you say, Zoombie, and I hate to see you so upset about anything. You're always so happy. I know when you're not, it's bad.

(Not that I didn't already know all this shit was bad)

Republican candidate says rape pregnancy is like having a baby out of wedlock

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