Obama, Perelman and Smallpox

Magdalen

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It's difficult to sort through all the conflicting information, and even tougher to separate the flavor of one's own circumstances from that of the "common good", agreed.

This Admins. connection with Goldman Sachs alone is highly questionable, imo. but add in Solyndra and Perelman & the Xmas tree tax Fast and Furious Mexico deal and it all goes beyong the pale for me. Personally, I can't help but feel tricked out of the "hope & change" promised since this prez has been all talk + a few dead guys, all to the determent of the average guy, of which I am one. I'd feel more secure if I had a President I could trust.
 
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Vince524

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On that note, I believe I'll have another beer.

Me too!! Make mine root!!!!
root_beer.gif
 

rugcat

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it's part of an ongoing, longtime experiment to see if anyone really believes anything.
And an ongoing unceasing crusade to expose Obama as no different at best, and probably worse, then the likes of Cain, Gingrich, Perry, et al - not to mention GWB.
 

jennontheisland

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And an ongoing unceasing crusade to expose Obama as no different at best, and probably worse, then the likes of Cain, Gingrich, Perry, et al - not to mention GWB.
and he wonders why my response was merely for entertainment purposes between folding socks...
 

William Haskins

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not surprised you joined the discussion, rugcat, nor am I surprised at the angle you took, but what do you think about the smallpox deal?

one would think that you guys would maybe address it, you know... since you're here anyway...
 
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Death Wizard

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line forms to the left for obama apologists to reject the obvious cronyism, political payback and no-bid hypocrisy...

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-smallpox-20111113,0,4293298.story

As a self-proclaimed Obama Apologist, let me try to explain how someone like me reacts to something like this. First, there are thousands and thousands of politically based stories published every day in newspapers, magazines and online. Of those, some are positive for Obama, some are negative against him, while others have little or nothing to do with him.

For me to read this particular item and suddenly have some sort of epiphany that Obama is (fill in the superlative negative), two things would have to happen. First I would have to spend a lot of time researching the details of it (and that would have to go far beyond just googling a couple of links; it would have to involve some serious reporting), and second I would have to hear from Obama himself in terms of getting his side of the story.

Until those two things happened, or until there was legitimate legal action taken against Obama for his behavior, this item has the feel to me of just one more of the thousands of negative stories that come out each and every day. And these negative stories turn Obama's critics on.

But they have zero impact on me as a voter.

Perhaps it's reasonable to argue that it's my responsibility as a voter to spend a lot of my time researching this story. But in my experience, every time I've done such a thing, Obama has been cleared and even more than cleared. So where is my motivation?

All this said, why in the hell should I respond to this post at all? If I'm so confident in my position, then I should feel no need to even give it a passing glance. This is a good question. I guess it's because I feel -- and I've said this many times -- that I have Obama's back, for what little that might be worth.
 

muravyets

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http://lmgtfy.com/?q=tergiversate

It's difficult to sort through all the conflicting information, and even tougher to separate the flavor of one's own circumstances from that of the "common good", agreed.

This Admins. connection with Goldman Sachs alone is highly questionable, imo. but add in Solyndra and Perelman & the Xmas tree tax and it all goes beyong the pale for me. Personally, I can't help but feel tricked out of the "hope & change" promised since this prez has been all talk + a few dead guys, all to the determent of the average guy, of which I am one. I'd feel more secure if I had a President I could trust.
Got anyone in mind?
 

Zoombie

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At best, spending 433 million dollars on a plague we wiped out forty years is just stupid.

At worst, its corrupt as hell.
 

Bird of Prey

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At best, spending 433 million dollars on a plague we wiped out forty years is just stupid.

At worst, its corrupt as hell.

Well, Z, that about sums it up. . . .
 

Vince524

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All this said, why in the hell should I respond to this post at all? If I'm so confident in my position, then I should feel no need to even give it a passing glance. This is a good question. I guess it's because I feel -- and I've said this many times -- that I have Obama's back, for what little that might be worth.

Dude, you have such a man crush!! :D

So if Obama never responds, then it can't ever be true?
 

Zoombie

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Unless there's evidence that there is a terrorist organization out there with their hands on smallpox...in which case, I'd just mass vaccinate people again. It'd be cheaper, and most likely, more effective.
 

rugcat

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not surprised you joined the discussion, rugcat, nor am I surprised at the angle you took, but what do you think about the smallpox deal?

one would think that you guys would maybe address it, you know... since you're here anyway...
Many in the security field, including some from places such as the Cato institute, have long held that a smallpox attack though unlikely, is certainly a real possibility. Currently it's believed that only the US and Russia have stocks of the smallpox virus, but it's also possible that such stocks also exist in say, China, or Pakistan, or India. We just don't know.

Given the nature of that deadly disease, and the fact that at least a hundred million Americans have no protection at all, plus the other hundreds of millions whose immunity is in question, (those who received vaccinations decades ago) it's not unreasonable to search for a means of protection.

Is it worth the cost? I wouldn't think so, but it's not some ridiculous idea. Should it have been given out to a specific company? Probably not -- though they might have been the best equipped to do the research. Or it might have been in part a political payback, which is not unheard of, and does not reflect well on the admin, to be sure.

But since you have opined from the minute obama began campaigning that he was an empty suit and a dangerous demagogue, it appears you have taken upon yourself the mantle of the intrepid truth seeker, determined to expose the evils of Obama and his administration.

This obsessive quest (which has never surfaced for any other political figure) has led to a series of posts, day after day, week after week, month after month.

Sometimes your criticisms have been valid, but more often they are simply petty and pointless. They seem to be closer in intent to the far right wing, Obama hating, partisan pundits than to any attempt of objective analysis. Quite simply, you have an ax to grind.

Most of the time, I simply skip over your Obama posts these days. I've lost interest in responding to the endless litany -- unless I'm particularly bored.
 

nighttimer

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I'm not searching for anybody. And btw, as per your usual tactics, what the hell does any of this have to do with the OP??

Probably about as much as your rant about "career politicians" you dislike had to do with the OP. :rolleyes:

oh no... heaven forbid i "start some" with nighttimer, lest there "be some"...

the beauty of the gauntlet, you see, slick... is that (in the case of you and jen and select others), it was exactly as i predicted. you can't reject the cronyism, blinded as you are by your political partisanship.

Funny. From here it looks like jenn and select others just called you out on your notorious bad habit of being needlessly confrontational and up in people's face with your macho swagger schtick.

I'm not surprised you can't recognize this because as you said, "you're just too hostile towards me to recognize it."

But that's just how you go from complimenting me one minute and then lamely trying to get a rise out of me the next.

Sorry. Not gonna happen, because it's so easy to get you to veer off the subject to reasserting your alpha male status.

William Haskins said:
but please, any time, you can pull yourself out of the habit of stamping your feet and pointing your finger and yelling "republican!" and actually read the LATimes article in the OP and tell us all, enamored as we are of your wisdom, why this particular no-bid, half-billion dollar contract for an unproven drug that would only be needed (if it even works) after the dose that is already paid for and available for every american is not delivered on time is a good call.

betcha won't, because i betcha can't.

Sure I can. Who's gonna tell me I can't?
 

Death Wizard

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At best, spending 433 million dollars on a plague we wiped out forty years is just stupid.

At worst, its corrupt as hell.

This would be true if you also believed that every fact and figure and all exhaustive reporting available were contained within the 18-paragraph or so article that was cited up front.
 

Zoombie

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This would be true if you also believed that every fact and figure and all exhaustive reporting available were contained within the 18-paragraph or so article that was cited up front.

Obviously. I should state that I provisionally believe that this kind of money is being spent in this boondoggle, as it seems like the kind of thing that the government/corporate symbiosis we have around these days would do. Now, whether it's Obama's direct fault is more questionable - as Presidents don't manage every thing in the country.

But it is a sign that things haven't changed as much as I'd like and damn everyone who isn't helping enact that change.

So, before you ask, yes that includes the obstructionists in the senate.
 

muravyets

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To raise a point of fact: Smallpox has not been eradicated. It is no longer endemic thanks to prolonged inoculation and vaccination programs, but it still exists because both research and weaponized culture samples still exist, and are just as vulnerable to accident, theft, or sabotage as any other highly hazardous agent.

I'm not saying necessarily that the money spent on it this time is justified. I'm just saying that, while a smallpox outbreak is a remote possibility, the fact that it exists at all and that smallpox is a horrendously devastating mass killer, we should not be too complacent in saying that it's been eradicated. Smallpox making a comeback is something none of us wants to see. Ever. Linky.

Frankly, I'd like to see every single sample destroyed, but since we can't be completely certain of who has samples, I agree with the CDC that vaccination is advisable.
 
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Williebee

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I seem to remember, a year or so ago, something in the news about there being some small pox concerns, because there was no more, or not enough vaccine remaining. But I'm hazy on it, and that makes me wonder if what I read wasn't some kind of marketing spin. (Cpnspiracy Angel sitting on my shoulder.)
 

Zoombie

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Frankly, I'd like to see every single sample destroyed, but since we can't be completely certain of who has samples, I agree with the CDC that vaccination is advisable.

I agree. We have the ability to cheaply vaccinate the entire damn planet. If people are worried - worried enough to spend millions of dollars - why not use a proven to work, already produced vaccination?

Well, because crony capitalism is the name of the game. Apparently.

And when it comes to root beer, I take Barques, not Mug. Mug is awful. (As are most Pepsi products)
 

Manuel Royal

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http://lmgtfy.com/?q=tergiversate

It's difficult to sort through all the conflicting information, and even tougher to separate the flavor of one's own circumstances from that of the "common good", agreed.

This Admins. connection with Goldman Sachs alone is highly questionable, imo. but add in Solyndra and Perelman & the Xmas tree tax and it all goes beyong the pale for me. Personally, I can't help but feel tricked out of the "hope & change" promised since this prez has been all talk + a few dead guys, all to the determent of the average guy, of which I am one. I'd feel more secure if I had a President I could trust.
Note: the "Christmas tree tax" was a bullshit story.
 

Michael Wolfe

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Is it worth the cost? I wouldn't think so, but it's not some ridiculous idea. Should it have been given out to a specific company? Probably not -- though they might have been the best equipped to do the research. Or it might have been in part a political payback, which is not unheard of, and does not reflect well on the admin, to be sure.

I think this is a decent and fair analysis, mostly. The one thing I'd like to know more about though is whether any kind of new vaccine is really worth developing.

I guess that means two questions...

1. Are there already enough vaccines to handle a possible outbreak?

2. If not, would it make sense to just create more from the old recipe, or would the disease have mutated too much by now?

Depending on the answers, maybe it is in fact a ridiculous idea. Or maybe it is in fact worth the cost. I don't know enough about it to say one way or the other with certainty.

Based on what it looks like though, I'd guess this isn't something Obama is going to be keen to mention in his campaign - he most likely isn't going to be bragging about how he took aggressive steps toward a positive and beneficial smallpox vaccine. And that by itself might say something.
 
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Elaine Margarett

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Line forms to the far Right for Obama bashers whom having failed to fan the public's wrath over Solyndra and Operation Fast and Furious continue to flounder in obvious frustration looking for something for which to smear the president.


...Never mind. I know where the supposedly fair and balanced post originator's easily provoked "outrage" was.

::

You didn't mention Obama's many other transgressions, i.e. Death panels, pals with terrorists, spent millions of dollars on naval escorts, socialism, and playing golf. How dare he!
 
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