The Daily Rejection, Vol. 2

( @shoeless) LOL. That IS reassuring.

It is a marathon. At least for me. But I'm in no rush...

Davy The First said:

( @shoeless) LOL. That IS reassuring.

It is a marathon. At least for me. But I'm in no rush...

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It's a different journey for everyone. Some people are very lucky, get an agent very quickly, then get a publishing offer soon after. Mine was actually a mix. I originally got an agent on my very first try, years back. However there was a lot of trouble selling my books to publishers, and not for lack of that agent trying, so we parted ways. I got back into the query trenches and stayed there for a few more years and landed my second agent after hundreds of rejections.

So... yeah. Everyone's ride is different, but you pick up a lot of interesting things along the way.

I woke up to the best kind of news in my inbox!!!!!! I can't say anything yet but I hope to share soon!!!

amillimiles said:

I woke up to the best kind of news in my inbox!!!!!! I can't say anything yet but I hope to share soon!!!

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Awesome, amillimiles! Hope to hear the full news soon!

amillimiles said:

I woke up to the best kind of news in my inbox!!!!!! I can't say anything yet but I hope to share soon!!!

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Dammit, I changed the title! I like the new title better, but maybe I should just go with the old one to avoid confusion? Gah!

I'm also second-guessing the shit out of my manuscript formatting, all the way down to the file name.

Good lord, I thought short stories had given me some confidence.

JJ! Grats on the full, and you know you've got this. You just have to get a little bit of panic out the way to begin with I'm probably not the best person to give advice (given my lack of serious querying, let requests), but if you like the title more now, just add to shoeless' suggestion that you've also changed the title?

yay, amillimiles!

#

I am bumbling along. I really wanted to finish this editing pass finished this month, but I really don't know. Having eye surgery next week, then I am going to PAX Aus about two days later, which is probably the stupidest thing I will ever do. But my surgeons said it'll be fine! I'll just need to rest a lot. And not do anything strenuous. I'm not missing out dammit >:

Then NaNo. Then another edit of book one. Then finally more querying and I will be less of an interloper here? I mean, I still get rejections from short stories so I'm not a complete interloper!

YAAAAY!!! Kill it amillimiles! Hoping to hear some super fab news soon!!!

And JJ, you'll be okay. Same--I think telling them you made a title change isn't a big deal. Breathe deep. YOU GOT THIS.

I've got some half-good news: I'm freaking out a little. I got an email from one of my favorite pro-markets and I passed it off as a rejection and didn't bother to open it since I've had the query R's coming in. Went back to open it...and it's an email from the editor in chief saying that they loved my story but there were two elements that kept them from accepting it. She sent me two pages of feedback (all of which is SUPER on point) and invited me to do an R&R. I'm like. Baffled. Even if it ends in another rejection this is the farthest I've ever gotten with pro-markets and I'm doing my happy dance.

sockycat said:

YAAAAY!!! Kill it amillimiles! Hoping to hear some super fab news soon!!!

And JJ, you'll be okay. Same--I think telling them you made a title change isn't a big deal. Breathe deep. YOU GOT THIS.

I've got some half-good news: I'm freaking out a little. I got an email from one of my favorite pro-markets and I passed it off as a rejection and didn't bother to open it since I've had the query R's coming in. Went back to open it...and it's an email from the editor in chief saying that they loved my story but there were two elements that kept them from accepting it. She sent me two pages of feedback (all of which is SUPER on point) and invited me to do an R&R. I'm like. Baffled. Even if it ends in another rejection this is the farthest I've ever gotten with pro-markets and I'm doing my happy dance.

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Yay!!!

R&Rs from short story markets are usually more promising than R&Rs for novels. That may be as simple as there being much less to rewrite, though I suspect they're only offered when there's just some small thing that they want fixed/clarified/changed. Not a guarantee, of course. But your odds are really good.

JJ Litke said:

Dammit, I changed the title! I like the new title better, but maybe I should just go with the old one to avoid confusion? Gah!

I'm also second-guessing the shit out of my manuscript formatting, all the way down to the file name.

Good lord, I thought short stories had given me some confidence.

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I'd use the old title to avoid confusion--and remember that they requested under that title, so even if the new title is better the old one didn't hurt you. Unless they asked for specifics, any version of standard formatting is going to be fine. If they don't specify file name format, I'd just use the title or title with author's name.

I have read that many agents/editors read on their Kindles, so it helps to go to document properties and make sure the title and author's name are there (since that's where e-readers often draw titles from).

Best of luck!

JJ Litke said:

Yay!!!

R&Rs from short story markets are usually more promising than R&Rs for novels. That may be as simple as there being much less to rewrite, though I suspect they're only offered when there's just some small thing that they want fixed/clarified/changed. Not a guarantee, of course. But your odds are really good.

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Yeah, it's honestly fixes I can do on my lunch break because while they require rewriting (they want a different structure and a different POV) it's a flash piece. But it'd be my first piece accepted by a SFWA qualifying market. *muffled sob* My hands are sweating just thinking about resubmitting. Especially because their feedback is so painfully on point and I agree with all of it, which is hella rare for me. But it was like I read the issues they had with the piece and the light bulb went on.

Good luck with the R&R, sockycat!

Marlys said:

I'd use the old title to avoid confusion--and remember that they requested under that title, so even if the new title is better the old one didn't hurt you. Unless they asked for specifics, any version of standard formatting is going to be fine. If they don't specify file name format, I'd just use the title or title with author's name.

I have read that many agents/editors read on their Kindles, so it helps to go to document properties and make sure the title and author's name are there (since that's where e-readers often draw titles from).

Best of luck!

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I would also follow this advice for the sake of the submission. Just keep in mind that unless you have a super-deep, emotional investment in the particular title you've given your book, it's probably one of the least important things about it, and quite likely to change anyway. Once you get an agent, she or he may suggest a title change, and even after that, if the book is sold to a publisher, the new editor may also suggest a title change. So I'd strongly advise not to get too attached on what your current title is. If the book goes to print, that may not be the title you see on shelves anyway.

I got my first-ever full rejection on my first-ever full today. I am surprisingly okay with this. Disappointed, sure, but not wrecked. It was a polite & personal R, she clearly read to the end, and she liked the writing, even if some elements didn't work for her. Apparently you can criticize an individual story and I can roll with it, as long as you don't tell me to change my style or sound like someone else. And she did say to keep her in mind for the next thing, so there's that.

Which doesn't mean I'm not going out for drinks and dessert tonight. Because duh.

Suitably gooey R cookies to lianna, sockycat, Collie, and anyone else who needs 'em.

solidjim, interesting approach!

And I didn't read that as slagging other authors at all. Weren't we all just moaning about how hard the business is these days? And YA is one of the few categories that seems to have a decent number of success stories, at least by comparison.

diana86 - Argh, sympathies on being back in the trenches. Er, third time's the charm? And that sounds like a bizarre rejection; very much something that's about that person's issues, not your manuscript. Chalk it up to people are weird, have some cookies, and forge on.

sockycat said:

How do y'all go about finding good CP's?

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Well, I don't. I've found some lousy ones, of assorted varieties. I could say a lot about not letting bad critique experiences make you gun-shy about reaching out to new people, but I try not to be a rampaging hypocrite.

RaggedEdge said:

IMHO, it's really important that you and your CPs have similar taste in stories, are roughly at the same point of craft development, and have similar goals and work ethic

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RaggedEdge nails it. I would add, similar styles of communication. If one person is hinting around or using understatement for emphasis while the other needs plain, straightforward explanations, it's going to be a frustrating interaction for everybody.

EMaree - YAY! Congrats!

Marlys - As my favorite fount of writing wisdom likes to say, editors do not conduct house-to-house searches. Send those stories out! (Advice I could stand to take for myself, too.)

amillimiles - Ooh, suspense!

Tamlyn - You're not an interloper, you've got cred. And short story rejections totally count.

sockycat, go you on the R&R!

good luck, sockycat!

amillimiles said:

I woke up to the best kind of news in my inbox!!!!!! I can't say anything yet but I hope to share soon!!!

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eeeeeeee, so excited to hear what this is!

Tamlyn said:

Then NaNo. Then another edit of book one. Then finally more querying and I will be less of an interloper here? I mean, I still get rejections from short stories so I'm not a complete interloper!

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You're rocking it Tamlyn! And you're doing much more of the actual writing than I am, so as far as I'm concerned, you're way ahead of me.

sockycat said:

I've got some half-good news: I'm freaking out a little. I got an email from one of my favorite pro-markets and I passed it off as a rejection and didn't bother to open it since I've had the query R's coming in. Went back to open it...and it's an email from the editor in chief saying that they loved my story but there were two elements that kept them from accepting it. She sent me two pages of feedback (all of which is SUPER on point) and invited me to do an R&R. I'm like. Baffled. Even if it ends in another rejection this is the farthest I've ever gotten with pro-markets and I'm doing my happy dance.

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Awww yesss Socky, this is BRILLIANT!

sockycat said:

Yeah, it's honestly fixes I can do on my lunch break because while they require rewriting (they want a different structure and a different POV) it's a flash piece. But it'd be my first piece accepted by a SFWA qualifying market. *muffled sob* My hands are sweating just thinking about resubmitting. Especially because their feedback is so painfully on point and I agree with all of it, which is hella rare for me. But it was like I read the issues they had with the piece and the light bulb went on.

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This one's for Socky and a heads up for everyone: if you get work published in a SFWA market, agency representation or a solid threshold of self-publishing sales, apply to join Codex. It's a really cool free pro-writer forum with a lot of big names in, and everything posted there is under a 'cone of silence' (honesty policy, relying on people being decent, so tread carefully with any personal info shared because people still sometimes suck), so there's a lot of in-depth discussions about industry stuff.

It's really great for those of us who can't always get to cons, or who live in areas without a strong writer community, or are just nervous newbies who don't know how to speak to bigger writers. I really recommend checking it out to folks as soon as they qualify.

Liz_V said:

I got my first-ever full rejection on my first-ever full today. I am surprisingly okay with this. Disappointed, sure, but not wrecked. It was a polite & personal R, she clearly read to the end, and she liked the writing, even if some elements didn't work for her. Apparently you can criticize an individual story and I can roll with it, as long as you don't tell me to change my style or sound like someone else. And she did say to keep her in mind for the next thing, so there's that.

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Personal rejections are *amazing*. You're getting closer and closer every day, Liz. Enjoy your drinks and dessert!

EMaree said:

...So that's 180 queries sent, four years in the trenches, one schmagent nightmare, and two books: one rewritten from the ground up five times, the second one rewritten from the ground up nine times.

Keep at it. No matter what.

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Emaree, this is heartwarming and wonderful and your query REALLY makes me want to read the book (I love Pacific Rim!)

This isn't the right thread to ask but I would love to hear more about the 're-writing from the ground up process'. I'm currently on the 8th draft of my novel, but each round has been adderssing issues with the writing rather than restructures or 'from scratch' rewrites. I feel like it needs a shake up. I don't know where to start and have been consiodering hiring a developmental editor. Any advice on how you've achieved this would be most welcome.

Sorry if you've answered this already but was it the first book that you sold or both?

EMaree said:

Hey, do you guys remember the exciting not-a-rejection I hinted at a couple of pages back? Well, after a week of absolute high-stress madness (including multiple offers, life-affirming kindness from agents, weird snarky grumpiness from other agents, and having my time treated as worthless by a reputable US agent), I can finally be public with my good news. You've probably guessed it involves an offer of rep, and the details are here, with the successful query over here.

I'll still be hanging around this Circle and cheering you all on, and giving advice if I can. I've seen a few writers from the Next Circle still do, like Cameron and PutPutt, and those folks definitely have the right idea.

For now, one thing I learned from the last week: your time is precious. You all deserve agents who will treat you as equal partners, as their priority, not as second-rate. I saw the some posts about 'publishing time' in the Next Circle, about how hanging around through weeks of silence for agent responses is normal... and nah, it doesn't have to be. It certainly wasn't with the agent I chose.

Keep sending those queries out, lovelies. It took me years and hundreds of the buggers, but as long as you stick with it, you'll get there.

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The highest of fives my friend! The very highest. I find it infuriating you got messed about so much, grr!!

That is awesome news, amillimiles! I look forward to hearing more.

Congrats on the Full request JJ *all the fingers crossed*

Oh wow, they really much have loved that story Sockycat. The pro markets don't generally do R&Rs in my experience.

EMaree said:

This one's for Socky and a heads up for everyone: if you get work published in a SFWA market, agency representation or a solid threshold of self-publishing sales, apply to join Codex. It's a really cool free pro-writer forum with a lot of big names in, and everything posted there is under a 'cone of silence' (honesty policy, relying on people being decent, so tread carefully with any personal info shared because people still sometimes suck), so there's a lot of in-depth discussions about industry stuff.

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Well for that matter, if you sell to a SFWA market you can join SFWA, if your story was at least 1,000 words.

JJ Litke said:

Well for that matter, if you sell to a SFWA market you can join SFWA, if your story was at least 1,000 words.

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Oooh, good point! I didn't consider this because it's not too relevant for non-USA writers. (We have the Society of Authors though, which is amazing and well worth being part of.)

SciSarahTops said:

This isn't the right thread to ask but I would love to hear more about the 're-writing from the ground up process'. I'm currently on the 8th draft of my novel, but each round has been adderssing issues with the writing rather than restructures or 'from scratch' rewrites. I feel like it needs a shake up. I don't know where to start and have been consiodering hiring a developmental editor. Any advice on how you've achieved this would be most welcome.

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Hmmm, I can't answer this well, because it's a personality quirk for me and it's more often a flaw than a benefit. I find it hard to stay focused on revisions, so a big dramatic change is easier for me to stick with, even though it takes a ton of time. Over the years I've had to really train myself to be okay with smaller changes, because the level of changes I make are often unnecessary and can pull the story away from its core. I overcompensate for the issue by changing the problem part and everything else within ten miles of it.

I'm studying how to keep a story to its core values (themes and promises): settings should speak to and enhance the core theme, events should all link thematically to the heart of the book. This is a hard thing to describe, and it only really clicked for me after listening to a recent Kameron Hurley podcast. Anatomy of a Story is helping a lot with this too.

'Promises made to the reader' is another concept I love, from the Writing Excuses podcast. When my beta readers are clamouring for Character X to die painfully but I know that I promised my readers a book about saving yourself and helping others, and I can't subvert that unless I'm really bloody certain it's the right step.

I'm trying to teach my writer-brain things like: yeah, adding an unreliable narrator twist would be cool, but doesn't it undermine a story about trust and loyalty? Or: yeah I want dragons but having Drogon running around eating everyone doesn't really fit the big core theme about how interesting and varied humans are.

Sorry if you've answered this already but was it the first book that you sold or both?

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Nothing sold yet, just repped by an agent. The book that got me this agent is the 2nd book in the query trenches (my 4th manuscript overall), but he reps writers for all their future books.

Love this blog post on what to do if you get an R&R.

EMaree said:

I'm trying to teach my writer-brain things like: yeah, adding an unreliable narrator twist would be cool, but doesn't it undermine a story about trust and loyalty? Or: yeah I want dragons but having Drogon running around eating everyone doesn't really fit the big core theme about how interesting and varied humans are.

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Man, you're several steps ahead of me. I was just reading and this and I was like, "Wait, you can write THEMES?!?"

I get as far as, "Maybe I should question the role of technology and its alienating influence on socie... Nah, tank battle with teenage girl that hurls lightning it is!"

This probably explains what I've been doing wrong.

EMaree said:

'Promises made to the reader' is another concept I love, from the Writing Excuses podcast. When my beta readers are clamouring for Character X to die painfully but I know that I promised my readers a book about saving yourself and helping others, and I can't subvert that unless I'm really bloody certain it's the right step.

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I LOVE WRITING EXCUSES. Dude, that is my favorite podcast hands down. Mary is definitely my favorite though lol.

JJ Litke said:

Well for that matter, if you sell to a SFWA market you can join SFWA, if your story was at least 1,000 words.

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I thought you had to have three SFWA qualifying sales before you were allowed to join?? Or have I had the wrong number in my head for the longest time?

sockycat said:

I thought you had to have three SFWA qualifying sales before you were allowed to join?? Or have I had the wrong number in my head for the longest time?

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You're right the last time I checked, although I have to admit, I haven't checked in quite a while. Also, I'm Canadian, so I don't even know if I could apply, but Canada also has an equivalent.