Thoughts/advice from six agents

I'm afraid the bottom line noted is right. No biggie. I've always traveled uphill both ways in a blizzard with no shoes and wolves snapping at my butt. Why should finding an agent be any different?

I've always found I excel in times of hardship.

gothicangel said:

I've always found I excel in times of hardship.

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The economy certainly is not what it used to be. Agents are in the job of selling books, thus they want what sells.

I'm with you on the excelling in times of hardship, though. Knowing this just sends me into work even hard to produce a good product.

I just waay too competitive.

I slog on in times of hardship, through the snow, etc. As Hamlet says, the slogging on is all. (Okay, so Shakespeare deleted this line. Hamlet still said it.)

From Sarah Ballard:

And don’t be afraid to use any contacts you have and mention the names of people who support your work.

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Yeah, who you know doesn't matter.

blacbird said:

Yeah, who you know doesn't matter.

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If you know people, use it. When I moved agencies I certainly did that. But you can get published without knowing anyone, and I got my first agent through the slush pile.

And I'm not the only one.

Toothpaste said:

If you know people, use it. ...But you can get published without knowing anyone, and I got my first agent through the slush pile.

And I'm not the only one.

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I would strongly agree with this. Even though I knew my agent before he took me on, because he'd come to talk to our writers' group and I'd also seen him at conventions - he wouldn't have taken me on if he didn't like the book. I didn't get any special privileges because I'd met him; I've met more than a few other agents (and editors) who didn't take me on.

However. Joining that writers' group was a really good move for me because of the help and advice I got from other writers, which massively improved my chances of publication. Going to conventions helped me find out more about the industry (plus it's - you know - fun) and some of the connections I made there may prove very useful in the future for asking people for reviews etc. You don't have to know anyone to get published - but getting to know people in the industry can be useful in more subtle ways, and most of them are interesting, nice, enthusiastic people so it's worth it anyway! (I am talking about people in SF/Fantasy, of course. Geeks rule. .)

I love historical novels but think the market for them might be starting to get a bit saturated.

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This is worrying, at least for some of us.

Another doom and gloom thread.

Personally I think seun should stick to starting threads about women's underwear.

Knowing someone can get you in the door in any field. Whether you stay in the room is another matter.

Got contacts? Use them. Don't have contacts? Knock harder and sleep on the doorstep. (Bring laptop or pad and pen, so you can keep writing while you wait.)

Phaeal said:

Got contacts? Use them. Don't have contacts? Knock harder and sleep on the doorstep. (Bring laptop or pad and pen, so you can keep writing while you wait.)

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That's an interesting metaphor. Do you have any practical advice? I would be willing to camp out on agents' doorsteps if I thought it would help, but I doubt it will. Do you have any sensible suggestions for making contacts with agents?

I have no idea how to approach agents other than by short queries with strict rules. I've sought them out at conventions; they're not findable. Their blogs constantly gossip about how much they hate authors who find creative ways to get their attention.

I don't see any way to make contacts other than by leveraging the goodwill of the few professional authors and editors I know, and I'm loathe to impose on them. If you have any suggestions -- or the address of any good doorsteps to camp out on -- I'd like to hear them.

Remus, we've tried in the past to explain to you that you don't need magical connections. Every single one of my author friends got their agent through the slush pile. It happens all the time. In fact when I was looking for an agent the thought of having connections being helpful didn't even occur to me since I didn't have any. I assumed that agents must look through the slush pile too. After all, why wouldn't they? And sure enough they did. And sure enough I was signed. If you're looking for a short cut, you won't find one.

Now, if you want alternative ways of getting in touch with agents, there is the convention route, though how you managed to not find them is beyond me, look in the bar. Chances are, they're in the bar . There are also conferences set up precisely for authors to meet agents. The Backspace agent conference is an excellent one, and I recommended it to an unpublished/unagented author friend of mine, he went and left with two offers from agents.

The thing is . . . you have to have a story that agents want. From what I understand, he might have been the only one to leave with two offers. He was the last person to pitch his story at the end of the session, and while everyone else had been cut off he was allowed to keep reading until the end of the sample pages. It was clear he had the agents hooked on his writing from the off.

But you have posted many times about being so unusually different from every other author out there that no agent will ever want you. Now, I don't believe it's possible to be that different, to be honest, everything has been written about under the sun, but if it is really true and you aren't writing anything that any agent would ever want to acquire, then even if you go to these conferences chances are you'll leave empty handed.

So. What do you do?

You go to smaller indie publishers and send your work directly to them. OR. You write a more commercial work - the latter if getting an agent is truly your goal. Which is doesn't have to be.

But in the end, if you want an agent, the slush pile is as reliable a method as any. (btw, if you do go to conventions, make sure you go to ones agents are attending. There are certain ones that are only authors - the small one I attend annually in Toronto is one like that)

RemusShepherd said:

That's an interesting metaphor. Do you have any practical advice? I would be willing to camp out on agents' doorsteps if I thought it would help, but I doubt it will. Do you have any sensible suggestions for making contacts with agents?

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Um, it WAS just a metaphor. Do not camp out on the agents' doorsteps. Camping out in their kitchens is much more effective. I recommend parking right in front of the refrigerator -- convenient for midnight snacks.

Toothpaste said:

Remus, we've tried in the past to explain to you that you don't need magical connections. Every single one of my author friends got their agent through the slush pile. It happens all the time.

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Yep, and I'm working my way through the slush, as suggested and as I always have been.

It's just that when someone says 'Get contacts', it prompts me to ask, "How?"

I'll take a look at that Backspace conference in NY. I think the problem is that most of the conferences I go to are in Minneapolis, where the agents are few and apparently flighty.

But you have posted many times about being so unusually different from every other author out there that no agent will ever want you.

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That's what I believe when my self-esteem ebbs. At other times I wonder how it's possible I haven't been picked up yet. When my logic kicks in I realize the truth must be between the two extremes. In any case, it's prudent to plan for the worst.

You go to smaller indie publishers and send your work directly to them.

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I got flamed to a crisp on these forums when I suggested sending directly to publishers. I may still do it, but I'm no longer convinced it's a path I can rely upon.

OR. You write a more commercial work - the latter if getting an agent is truly your goal.

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Doing that now, I hope. It's hard to tell.

But back to the thread, I was responding to someone who suggested authors get contacts and use them. Conferences are one way. Can anyone suggest other methods?

Yeah, NY is still the place to be, though there are other workshops in other parts of the country famous for small numbers and agent/editor presence. I've seen them discussed before, but to be honest, I don't remember their names. Maybe others can help? I will say the Backspace conferences are wonderful, you may want to consider joining that forum as well and getting to know the people behind it - I'm a member myself . There is a small yearly fee, but it's only to discourage trolls: http://www.bksp.org/

RemusShepherd said:

I got flamed to a crisp on these forums when I suggested sending directly to publishers. I may still do it, but I'm no longer convinced it's a path I can rely upon.

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No. No you weren't. You were strongly advised that if you want to be published at a big house you need to go the agent route. If however you want to publish niche, there are lots of lovely small publishers that accept unagented submissions.

RemusShepherd said:

But back to the thread, I was responding to someone who suggested authors get contacts and use them. Conferences are one way. Can anyone suggest other methods?

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The internet. Seriously. Get to know agents through their blogs, comment in their threads, but not in a "hey will you check out my stuff" kind of way, just get on their radar as a human being. Twitter as well. Lots of agents tweet, and they often hold little tweeting conferences where they answer author questions. If you follow them, and interact with them, then they will know you exist. But again, your responses can't be "Agents don't want to rep cool stuff" or "will you read my query", they have to be things like "I agree about your thoughts on boys needing to read more, but maybe the reason isn't what you said and instead has to do with this" etc.

But really, conventions/conferences are the best way to meet them in person. But you have to go to the right conventions/conferences.

RemusShepherd said:

I got flamed to a crisp on these forums when I suggested sending directly to publishers. I may still do it, but I'm no longer convinced it's a path I can rely upon.

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Unless you have video of a publishing house editor in an embarrassing position with a goat, there is no path you can "rely on".

blacbird said:

Unless you have video of a publishing house editor in an embarrassing position with a goat, there is no path you can "rely on".

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I will get right on that.


the video, not the goat.

seun said:

http://www.mslexia.co.uk/getpublished/getpublished_agents.php#theagents

Not sure how recent this link is but worth reading even if I get the feeling a lot of it comes down to this:

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Funny, I've been at this for thirty-one years, and there has never been a single week when I couldn't find that exact statement being made by all sorts of agents and editors.

I've even lost count of the number of times that exact statement has been posted somewhere on AW, and other forums, over the years. Agents ALWAYS say that. It never has been true.

Really, where are publishers getting all those books they publish? Aren't they buying them from writers? Current economic times? Unless the publishers are lying, a LOT of new writers have already been published this year, just like they were last year, and will be next year.

Am I imagining it, or is every bookstore I enter still filled floor to ceiling with new books? Aren't book sales still in the billions of dollars, or are publishers making this up, too?

Doesn't the NYT bestseller list still have new writers on it darned near every week?

There certainly hasn't been an easier time to sell a first novel in my lifetimes, and all the numbers are far, far better than they were when I first started writing, and most are quadruple what they were back in the "Golden Age" of fiction.

It's just that when someone says 'Get contacts', it prompts me to ask, "How?"

I'll take a look at that Backspace conference in NY. I think the problem is that most of the conferences I go to are in Minneapolis, where the agents are few and apparently flighty.

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How do you make contacts? Nothing could be simpler. Let me dilineate my path to making contacts in the publishing industry.

1--joining a writing forum. AW is probably one of the best resources in my arsenal.

2--making friends on said forum--professional friends. How? By critiquing, betaing manuscripts, being involved in the writing process on both ends, both the giving and the taking.

3--going to workshops, conferences and conventions. You don't have to spend tons of money to do this; there are countless small cons and workshops all over the country and some are going to be close to where you are. Or, conversely, save your money and attend a bigger conference where there are pitch sessions. Regardless, when you do attend a convention, you're not going to make contacts by sitting around with your laptop and waiting for someone to approach you. You have to be proactive. Or, talk directly to the publishers/editors. If you research your conventions carefully, you can find the ones that are going to provide you with the opportunity you need.

And then, you string it all together: You meet a friend from AW, who you've critiqued and who's critiqued your work, at a conference or a convention and then they introduce you to their agent. Bingo! You have successfully used your contacts in the industry as an avenue to meet an agent and, potentially, introduce them to your work.

This path isn't hard to accomplish--not in the slightest. And it works. How do I know? Because it worked for me.

But the important part of that path is the giving part--without it, there isn't a magic formula that's going to work for you. Keep in mind, that's how you can meet one agent, maybe even a few. But the majority of writers still go through the submission/slush pile process.

And, of course, all of this is contingent on one major factor that no one has control over but you: write a damn good book. Then another. And another.

mscelina said:

some are going to be close to where you are.

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Nothing is close to where I are, except maybe the moose that was outside my front door this morning. But I think he's moved on now.