There's a wiseass in every crowd...

perlboy

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Hello fellow writers at AW,

You mean I really get an opportunity to toot my own horn? Wow! Well, better to get shot from the front than the back, he said, as he crossed the Rubicon…

Since the summer of ’09 (I retired from Goo…; was, what else a SW nerd) I’ve written two novels and a short story. Well, that’s not exactly true. How many novels are in 3,000 or so pages? I wrote one big novel, almost a thousand pages and then a TR (trusted reader) helped me to understand that my opus was really two. I split it apart and once I did I was glad. And since I’ve rewritten both at least three times that accounts for the 3K pages. Maybe more. I’ve lost count. It really doesn’t matter since it was a labor of love. I love the process, every part of it but especially editing. I edit, edit, edit and it just gets better and better… or so I believe. Need more TRs to help me to know for sure. I’ve had two TRs and both helped me see the forest for the trees. Full disclosure: a TR is not your mom or your spouse.

I wrote the short story as a writing exercise. The literary association I’m a member of holds an annual SS competition. I had just ended what I thought was going to be a promising relationship with a literary agent and was suffering acute writer’s rejection at the hands of this agent when the opportunity to have my work read came along. I thought: I can’t get agents to read more than ten pages; or even know for sure they’ve read them; here is a chance to get five people, all published authors, to read a blind submission in its entirety. Can any writer pass up an opportunity like that? Well, the five read the story but none offered any feedback and mine wasn’t one of the ten selected for publication from 160 submissions.

No feedback, no feedback… no feedback! Did I say that loud enough? In my opinion that’s what’s broken about the familiar agent-query process. I understand the Internet is a giant slush pile. I understand agents are overwhelmed with queries but what is a writer to do? Don’t, whatever you do say self-publish… except as I do, in a free blog. Anything else is self-deception.

Well, what this writer did was build a WordPress website to supplement his queries. Well, all the experts (experts???) say you need a platform without defining what a fiction writer’s platform should look like. They’ll gladly take your ninety-nine bucks to teach you how to create a WordPress blog, something you can do for free by reading the online tutorials. I myself have posted a freebie that tells you how create a WP sandbox, in several different ways. But creating a WP blog and knowing what to post are two different things. For me that means trial and error. My idea is to demonstrate that not only can I write but I also understand the craft of writing. Why is that important? Because this agent I truly admire said she could fix plot problems, character development, dialogue problems even genre changes if the craft was high but there wasn’t much she could do if craft was absent. I believe my craft is very high and if she told me what to fix I’d fix it in a heartbeat. Did I get any feedback? What do you think?

Any who are so inclined may visit me at http://thomasdocheri.com. There you will be most welcome. There you will find fragments of my work, scenes and in some cases complete chapters including the complete text of the short as well as essays on certain aspects of writing fiction. I have a very thick skin so I welcome any and all feedback. I look forward to joining the discussion at AW and thank you for taking the time to read this introduction.

Thomas Docheri (perlboy)
 

BMajor

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Whoa - Hi Perlboy, and welcome to AW!

Perhaps contributing to AW (and getting at least 50 posts) would help you out. There's a lot of information here, from what I've gathered since last July, and I'm sure you could find some insight. But I think we'd be more inclined to help if we got to know you a bit better. (There's also a rant thread, as well as an Agent and Editor info thread when you're ready for it.)

So, welcome to you - I hope you continue to be a part of discussions and feedback for others around these parts. That's what AW is all about!
 

Izz

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Welcome to AW, Thomas! :welcome:

AW is, imo, the best online writing community and resource around, bar none. There's a heap of great info regarding writing and publishing, and a ton of excellent people (from writers to agents to editors to publishers) to hang out with and learn from. I'm sure you'll enjoy browsing the various forums and engaging in the conversations.

See you around the boards! :)
 

regdog

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Take some time and read the Newbie Guide and the Stickies found
at the top of Forum pages. They are your best guide to learning about
Absolute Write.


Please read the FAQ about posting photos.


In fact we have lots of brilliant FAQs check them out.


Members who want to start a thread in Share Your Work to have work critiqued need
50 posts. Don’t make a mad dash to reach your 50 posts. That is frowned upon and can lead to your posts being deleted.
Take some time to greet fellow newbies, critique other members’ works, or join a discussion.


Announcements, Events and Self Promotion is for active members only. All obvious spam will be deleted on sight!
 

L. Y.

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Welcome to the Water Cooler!

:welcome:

AW is a huge place, and there's a lot of information to be found here. Take your time and browse around to get a feel of the various forums.

Here's a link to some of the most commonly asked questions in the FAQs, and another for the Absolute Write Dictionary. Also, a little reminder that if you're interested in receiving a critique of your work, there is a 50-post rule (and please don't rush towards that 50).

One last thing--don't forget to check out the Newbie Guide.

Enjoy your stay. :)
 

Phoebs

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Welcome! I hope you get the feedback you're looking for.

And wow 3000 pages.... dear lawd
 

Helen St. James

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"It is be better to have a wise mind than a wise ass." - Confucius

"Do not believe every quote you read on the internet." - Abraham Lincoln

Welcome to Absolute Write!
 

Blinkk

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Hi and welcome. You seem like you've been running through the hoops for awhile. There's lots of resources here that you'll find useful. Good luck with your book (books?) and I hope you can find what you need here. Lots of people have walked through these forums with the hope of publishing and succeeded. :) You will too, if you keep at it.
 

Old Hack

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Welcome to AW, perlboy. I'm glad you found us.

No feedback, no feedback… no feedback! Did I say that loud enough? In my opinion that’s what’s broken about the familiar agent-query process. I understand the Internet is a giant slush pile. I understand agents are overwhelmed with queries but what is a writer to do?

Agents have to work for their author-clients, first and foremost. That's where they earn their income from. They just don't have time to give feedback to even a quarter of the submissions they receive, even if they wanted to; and all the agents I know (I've worked in publishing for a while, and am friends with a few) have been put off giving feedback by the inappropriate responses they've received from unappreciative writers.

What is a writer to do? Join AW, for a start. It has an excellent Share Your Work section. Or join a critique group. Or read agent blogs, attend conferences, and so on.

Don’t, whatever you do say self-publish… except as I do, in a free blog. Anything else is self-deception.

Self publishing can be great. There's a self publishing room here where many of our members write diary threads in which they record their activities and successes: they're fascinating reads. Read through a few of them: you might realise how positive self publishing can be, for the right writer.

Well, what this writer did was build a WordPress website to supplement his queries. Well, all the experts (experts???) say you need a platform without defining what a fiction writer’s platform should look like.

Don't believe people who tell you that fiction writers need platforms. They're wrong (and probably trying to sell you something you don't need). All fiction writers need is good writing.

I look forward to joining the discussion at AW and thank you for taking the time to read this introduction.

Thomas Docheri (perlboy)

I hope you enjoy yourself here, Thomas. There's a lot for you to catch up on. I'll look forward to seeing you around.
 

perlboy

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You may be right but... there's always a but...

Hello Old Hack,

Self publishing can be great. There's a self publishing room here where many of our members write diary threads in which they record their activities and successes: they're fascinating reads. Read through a few of them: you might realise how positive self publishing can be, for the right writer.
You may be right... in fact, I'm sure you are, and I will follow up and read some of those threads. My problem with self-publishing, and this reflects a lifetime of thinking about the creative process (writing, making music, art, even writing software, which was my shtick), is that what I think is good enough may be just so much schlock if no one but me wants to read it. Whether you like the fact that agents have become the industry's first readers... and its gatekeepers... getting one sufficiently jazzed to believe in your work enough to try to sell it is a writer's - certainly this writer's - first trustworthy indicator that what he writes is worth publishing. Why I built that website is that when I do finally attract an agent, she will visit and know she can work with me to co-market my work. They all say, those that write about the process that co-marketing is essential. If I'm not doing it quite the way they think I should they'll tell me and I'll fix it.

I mostly view the world, and its many disciplines, as a broad-based pyramid; entry level at the bottom, early success somewhere in the middle and that rarefied air near the top where Leonard, Follett and their like hang out. The base is so wide, the competition so great that few will make it even to the middle much less the top. For me, the only path up through all that is the traditional one. My ego won't let me do it any other way.

Thanks for your thoughtful post. I'll drop in at your blog and keep an open mind re everything I see, hear and learn at AW.

Thomas
 

Nadja V.

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Hi Thomas, and welcome. This is a great place for feedback and just for blowing off the inevitable steam that builds up now and then. I look forward to taking time to look at your blog...there seems to be a lot of good stuff to peruse.

I'm with you on the foils of self-publishing. Some really good stuff has, perhaps, come of it, but it has also flooded the market with a great deal of mediocrity. I write because I have to write. I would like to publish, too...but if I can't go the conventional route, I'll settle for making up a few copies on Lulu.com to leave to my kids and let it rest at that...
 

Old Hack

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Hello Old Hack,

You may be right... in fact, I'm sure you are, and I will follow up and read some of those threads. My problem with self-publishing, and this reflects a lifetime of thinking about the creative process (writing, making music, art, even writing software, which was my shtick), is that what I think is good enough may be just so much schlock if no one but me wants to read it.

That's why you need beta-readers.

Whether you like the fact that agents have become the industry's first readers... and its gatekeepers... getting one sufficiently jazzed to believe in your work enough to try to sell it is a writer's - certainly this writer's - first trustworthy indicator that what he writes is worth publishing.

The literary agents I know and trust work incredibly hard, and it's not appropriate (in my view) to call them gatekeepers. It ignores most of what they do, and implies that they are mostly interested in stopping people getting published rather than finding the very best books and championing them all the way to the bookshops, which is much closer to what they really do.

Why I built that website is that when I do finally attract an agent, she will visit and know she can work with me to co-market my work.

Your website isn't a brilliant platform, I'm afraid. It's not unique enough to work in that way, it's not brilliantly well-written, and it has errors which I find off-putting.

And agents don't work with their authors to market their work: they find them deals with publishers who do that.

They all say, those that write about the process that co-marketing is essential. If I'm not doing it quite the way they think I should they'll tell me and I'll fix it.

Whoever the "they" is that you've been listening to, they've got it wrong.

Agents don't help writers "co-market" their books. Publishers do the marketing; writers work on publicity and promotion if they want to, and if they feel they can do so effectively. If they don't want to, or are unable to, or don't think they could do so effectively, then they do not participate.

And "platform" is a requirement for non-fiction, not fiction.

I mostly view the world, and its many disciplines, as a broad-based pyramid; entry level at the bottom, early success somewhere in the middle and that rarefied air near the top where Leonard, Follett and their like hang out. The base is so wide, the competition so great that few will make it even to the middle much less the top. For me, the only path up through all that is the traditional one. My ego won't let me do it any other way.

It's trade publishing, not traditional publishing.

And it's not competition which stops most writers from being successful: it's a lack of talent and persistence.
 

xmach

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Welcome! I've only been on here a couple days but I've learned a great deal from some great advice threads. I'm looking forward to when I can post my work here since there seems to be a great deal of talented people criticing peoples work here.
 

Old Hack

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Captain Old Hack rapped his glass three times to get everyone's attention. He was about to instruct Lieutenant Docheri in proper wardroom etiquette. Docheri had just reported aboard and his views on things clearly offended the captain. Well, war is hell. Docheri had been upbraided by experts and he'd developed a thick skin. He still wasn't sure which officers were the stand-up guys, which were the blow-hards, which could be trusted despite their rank. "Yes sir, you were saying..."

I must have really pissed you off, what I wrote? Well, such is life. If you would like to view a video prepared by one of the publishing industry's top literary agents, in which she calls herself a first reader gatekeeper, I'll send it to you privately, but only if you calm down.

Thomas

Oh, bless you.
 

zanzjan

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if ($ryfw) {
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} else {
$pass_go = false;
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exit;
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MacAllister

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Thomas, don't address anyone that way.

Not here.

If you do it again, you won't be here anymore.