Choosing a title for a fictional novel

MikeGWB · Nov 6, 2014

I know titles aren't copyrighted, and I've seen them re-used occasionally, but good titles don't seem to be re-used as often as I would expect.

Is there a reason for this?

If a good title, that would fit my book, has already been used by another author, should I still use it (or should I come up with another title)?

And why?

mrsmig · Nov 6, 2014

First and foremost, all novels are fiction - so to call something a "fictional novel" is like calling a circle round.

The preference is always to come up with a different title, particularly if the title you'd like to use is the same as that of a well-known novel. However, if you wanted to call your book Gone With The Wind, for example, there's nothing to stop you. But why would you want to?

BBBurke · Nov 6, 2014

Are you publishing this book or do you hope someone else will be the publisher? Because if you plan to sell the book, most likely the publisher will decide what they think the name should be - though I'm sure they'd listen to your suggestion.

Whether to re-use a name depends on what that name is, how recently or how often it's been used, if the genre or subject matter is similar, and lots of other individual things. So it may or may not be a good idea, you may or may not want to choose something different, you may or may not have any say in the matter. Can't really say without particulars.

Marian Perera · Nov 6, 2014

MikeGWB said:
I know titles aren't copyrighted, and I've seen them re-used occasionally, but good titles don't seem to be re-used as often as I would expect.

Is there a reason for this?

Well, yeah. Even if a well-known title would be great for my book, I don't want to confuse readers. Someone who's looking for Jim Lynch's The Highest Tide will not be happy if they buy my The Highest Tide, and vice versa.

I also know of a self-published author who retitled his fantasy novels to ape the titles of the Song of Ice and Fire series. If it's very obvious that a writer is trying to hitch a ride on someone else's coattails like this, I'm not likely to read their books.

Finally, if you're self-publishing you can call your book whatever you like, but an agent or a publisher might feel differently.

MikeGWB · Nov 6, 2014

mrsmig said:
First and foremost, all novels are fiction - so to call something a "fictional novel" is like calling a circle round.

Sorry.

I wanted to emphasize that I was talking about a fictional work, where my choice of a title is somewhat arbitrary, and not dictated by the subject matter, like a book on "The Battle of The Bulge" might be, or like like the content of the subject matter might have influenced the choice of title in the following example (which apparently did involve some kind of civil suite):

CASE & COMMENT: When McGraw-Hill, publishers of the best selling PT-109: JOHN KENNEDY IN WORLD WAR II , moved to enjoin Random House from using the title JOHN F. KENNEDY & PT-109 on a competing book, the court found that two terms in plaintiff's title -- "PT-109" and "John F. Kennedy" -- were descriptive or generic terms, and therefore unprotectable. Noting the inherent weakness of plaintiff's title, the court commented that the words chosen by Random House were an apt description of its book, and therefore in the public domain. Rejecting plaintiff's unfair competition claim, the court further noted that because of the weakness of plaintiff's title, combined with the differences in the overall look and feel of the two books (including Random House's prominent use of its distinctive logo on the spine and back jacket) there was no likelihood of confusion. McGraw-Hill Book Company v. Random House, Inc., 32 Misc. 2nd 704, 225 N.Y.S.2d 646, 132 U.S.P.Q. 530 (1962).

http://www.copylaw.com/new_articles/titles.html

mrsmig said:
The preference is always to come up with a different title, particularly if the title you'd like to use is the same as that of a well-known novel. However, if you wanted to call your book Gone With The Wind, for example, there's nothing to stop you. But why would you want to?

I'm not thinking of "Gone with the Wind," I'm thinking of "The Stranger," because the protagonist I have in mind is a stranger in town (and that has to do with the plot development I have in mind), but with very little research I found that that book title has been used before (and I already knew it was the title of a film with Orson Wells, Edward G. Robinson, and Loretta Young, that I saw when I was young.)

I don't think I'd have to worry about any law suite, but is there any other reason you'd avoid re-using such a tittle?

And (leaving aside obvious classics like "Gone with the Wind"), would the quality and popularity of a previous work with the title you were considering be a pro or a con?

I mean the Orson Wells film was fairly popular (though not nearly as popular as "Gone with the Wind"), and I thought it was pretty good, and (for some reason) I think that would incline me to consider that title for my own book.

It couldn't hurt, could it?

cornflake · Nov 6, 2014

MikeGWB said:
Sorry.

I wanted to emphasize that I was talking about a fictional work, where my choice of a title is somewhat arbitrary, and not dictated by the subject matter, like a book on "The Battle of The Bulge" might be, or like like the content of the subject matter might have influenced the choice of title in the following example (which apparently did involve some kind of civil suite):

You're talking about a fictional work if you're asking about a novel.

You can change the thread title by going to your first post in the thread, hitting the 'edit' button, and then hitting 'go advanced.' At the top left of the editing box with the post in it is a smaller box that says: Title.

You don't have to change it, obviously, but it's kind of cringeworthy.

Also, that's a civil suit, not suite.

http://www.copylaw.com/new_articles/titles.html

I'm not thinking of "Gone with the Wind," I'm thinking of "The Stranger," because the protagonist I have in mind is a stranger in town (and that has to do with the plot development I have in mind), but with very little research I found that that book title has been used before (and I already knew it was the title of a film with Orson Wells, Edward G. Robinson, and Loretta Young, that I saw when I was young.)

I don't think I'd have to worry about any law suite, but is there any other reason you'd avoid re-using such a tittle?

And (leaving aside obvious classics like "Gone with the Wind"), would the popularity of a previous work with the title you were considering be a pro or a con?

The Stranger is pretty generic, and not tied to a well-known literary work, so it wouldn't bother me too much use, but I'd rather come up with something that doesn't call a book or film to mind.

Something very popular or well-known would be a con. It's likely to confuse and annoy readers who go looking for the other; it's also not exactly going to help the person who uses the title after it becomes famous become famous.

I mean if you wrote a novel titled Gone with the Wind, and it was a hit, and people were talking about it, now or some time from now, it'd require constant clarification. How would that be good for you?

'Did you read Gone with the Wind? It was amazing.'

'Yeah, I read it every few years.'

'No, there's a new one.'

'Oh, like that lame sequel thing?'

'No, it's got nothing to do with it.'

'Then why's it called that?'

'I dunno... but it was good, I swear.'

This is not the conversation you want a fan to get into, because they're not going to get into it often.

MikeGWB · Nov 6, 2014

BBBurke said:
...if you plan to sell the book, most likely the publisher will decide what they think the name should be - though I'm sure they'd listen to your suggestion.

I was hoping to sell it.

BBBurke said:
Whether to re-use a name depends on what that name is, how recently or how often it's been used, if the genre or subject matter is similar, and lots of other individual things...

Are those the criteria a publisher would use?

If the title had been used recently, and the genre and subject matter were similar, would a publisher consider those pros or cons?

And when you submit your work to a publisher, don't you want it to have some kind of tittle that will catch his attention?

MikeGWB · Nov 6, 2014

cornflake said:
Something very popular or well-known would be a con. It's likely to confuse and annoy readers who go looking for the other; it's also not exactly going to help the person who uses the title after it becomes famous become famous.

I mean if you wrote a novel titled Gone with the Wind, and it was a hit, and people were talking about it, now or some time from now, it'd require constant clarification. How would that be good for you?

'Did you read Gone with the Wind? It was amazing.'

'Yeah, I read it every few years.'

'No, there's a new one.'

'Oh, like that lame sequel thing?'

'No, it's got nothing to do with it.'

'Then why's it called that?'

'I dunno... but it was good, I swear.'

This is not the conversation you want a fan to get into, because they're not going to get into it often.

Thank you.

I hadn't thought of that.

Helix · Nov 6, 2014

FWIW, 'The Stranger' makes me think of the Albert Camus novel. But since it's been used plenty of times, I don't think it's going to be a problem.

cornflake · Nov 6, 2014

MikeGWB said:
I was hoping to sell it.

Are those the criteria a publisher would use?

If the title had been used recently, and the genre and subject matter were similar, would a publisher consider those pros or cons?

And when you submit your work to a publisher, don't you want it to have some kind of tittle that will catch his attention?

If you're hoping to trade publish, this discussion is largely moot. Call it whatever for now. Publishers have marketing departments.

Thomas Vail · Nov 6, 2014

MikeGWB said:
And when you submit your work to a publisher, don't you want it to have some kind of tittle that will catch his attention?

The title is going to be least important and most easily changed part of the manuscript, or at least I would be thoroughly surprised at any work where the title somehow trumped the upsomethousand words that follow after.

MikeGWB · Nov 6, 2014

cornflake said:
If you're hoping to trade publish, this discussion is largely moot. Call it whatever for now. Publishers have marketing departments.

So Margaret Mitchell didn't choose "Gone with the Wind," some suite in marketing did?

RightHoJeeves · Nov 6, 2014

cornflake said:
The Stranger is pretty generic, and not tied to a well-known literary work, so it wouldn't bother me too much

Surely the Stranger is tied to The Stranger by Albert Camus? I thought that was super well known.

Roxxsmom · Nov 6, 2014

MikeGWB said:
I'm not thinking of "Gone with the Wind," I'm thinking of "The Stranger," because the protagonist I have in mind is a stranger in town (and that has to do with the plot development I have in mind), but with very little research I found that that book title has been used before (and I already knew it was the title of a film with Orson Wells, Edward G. Robinson, and Loretta Young, that I saw when I was young.)

The Stranger (also sometimes The Outsider) immediately made me think of the English translation of the title for the novel L'Étranger by Albert Camus. A definite classic (they made us read it in school back in my day, anyway). There is also a famous movie called The Stranger with Orson Wells, which you mentioned (not based on the same story).

A quick perusal of Amazon reveals that there are other books by this title too, the most recent being The Stranger by Amelia Lackberg (2014), and The Stranger by Harlan Coben (coming out in 2015).

So maybe this answers your question. Yes, it's possible for books to have duplicate titles, even of classics, though this might work better with a somewhat "generic" sounding title like "The Stranger" than it would with a really standout name. Also, it might be a good idea to avoid having the same title as a well-known book in your own genre. Writing a fantasy novel (for instance) called Lord of the Rings, or The Wheel of Time might backfire, not for copyright infringement, but because it would confuse potential readers.

As others have said, if you are going for trade publishing, the publisher will likely weigh in on the title. I don't have exact figures for how many writers get their submission title changed, but the practice is fairly common. It may vary with genre. I've met writers who say their publisher always takes the title they've chosen, and others who say their publisher always changes it.

May be a function of how good one is at picking interesting titles that grab the interest of the target audience.

MikeGWB · Nov 6, 2014

Roxxsmom said:
The Stranger (also sometimes translated to The Outsider) immediately made me think of the English translation of the title for the novel L'Étranger by Albert Camus. A definite classic (they made us read it in school back in my day, anyway). There is also a famous movie called The Stranger with Orson Wells, which you mentioned (not based on the same story).

A quick perusal of Amazon reveals that there are other books by this title too, the most recent being The Stranger by Amelia Lackberg (2014), and The Stranger by Harlan Coben (coming out in 2015).

So maybe this answers your question. Yes, it's possible for books to have duplicate titles, even of classics, though this might work better with a somewhat "generic" sounding title like "The Stranger" than it would with a really standout name. Also, it might be a good idea to avoid having the same title as a well-known book in your own genre. Writing a fantasy novel (for instance) called Lord of the Rings, or The Wheel of Time might backfire, not for copyright infringement, but because it would confuse potential readers.

As others have said, if you are going for trade publishing, the publisher will likely weigh in on the title. I don't have exact figures for how many writers get their submission title changed, but the practice is fairly common. It may vary with genre. I've met writers who say their publisher always takes the title they've chosen, and others who say their publisher always changes it.

May be a function of how good one is at picking interesting titles that grab the interest of the target audience.

Thank you.

And I was glad to see that Margaret Mitchell chose the title of her famous novel.

The title Mitchell finally chose is from the first line of the third stanza of the poem Non Sum Qualis Eram Bonae sub Regno Cynarae by Ernest Dowson:

I have forgot much, Cynara! gone with the wind,
Flung roses, roses riotously with the throng,
Dancing, to put thy pale, lost lilies out of mind...[7]

Scarlett O'Hara uses the title phrase when she wonders to herself if her home on a plantation called "Tara" is still standing or if it is "gone with the wind which had swept through Georgia."[8]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gone_with_the_Wind#Title

cornflake · Nov 6, 2014

MikeGWB said:
So Margaret Mitchell didn't choose "Gone with the Wind," some suite in marketing did?

I don't know what the deal was 80 years ago. Currently, this is often true, yes.

Just btw -

Suit - an outfit of clothing; a legal action.

Suite - a collection of rooms.

Roxxsmom · Nov 6, 2014

This blog entry actually does a good job of explaining how copyright and trademark law applies to the titles of books.

It looks like the titles of series can be trademarked. So Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings and such names are likely off limits. individual novels cannot be, however. There is also the issue of adopting an identical and unique name for the purpose of "passing off" your work as someone else's.

So, if there were a reasonably successful book with a very unique name, and one that is unlikely to be stumbled across by another author, then there might be a case made against an author for trying to deliberately confuse readers into buying their book instead of the original.

The Stranger should be safe, however, since it doesn't seem to be the title of any series of books or movies, and it's a reasonable name for someone to choose for a variety of situations.

BethS · Nov 7, 2014

MikeGWB said:
And when you submit your work to a publisher, don't you want it to have some kind of tittle that will catch his attention?

Titles are not what catches a publisher's attention: the writing does that, and the story.* And anyway, titles are frequently changed by publishers, so whatever title you submit the work under may not end up being the published title.

I suspect if you use a recent and/or well known title, the publisher will insist it be changed.

*I would add that if the title does catch a publisher's attention, you want it to be because it's original and intriguing, not because it's been used before.

Choosing a title for a fictional novel

MikeGWB

mrsmig

Write. Write. Writey Write Write.

BBBurke

Along for the ride

Marian Perera

starting over

MikeGWB

cornflake

practical experience, FTW

MikeGWB

MikeGWB

Helix

socially distancing

cornflake

practical experience, FTW

Thomas Vail

What?

MikeGWB

RightHoJeeves

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido

MikeGWB

cornflake

practical experience, FTW

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido

BethS