Political and cultural conflict in epic/high fantasy

To me this sounds absolutely awesome. I love political drama, and I think fantasy is a perfect place for it because you can explore so many variables. I think any fantasy sub-genre could contain these ideas. Write what you want to read (that I would also like to read).

I'd read it. I'm writing a bit of fantasy at the moment that you could say has a political/cultural sub-text, so sure, go for it!

Edit - It certainly isn't in a "court intrigue" kind of way either

I get it; I really do.

In fact my co-author spouse and I wrote such a tale that bloomed into a four volume series (Old Blood). The creatures of myth and folklore exist but have fled our reality to seek sanctuary in parallel yet slightly deviant earths. Each is a separate culture that is administered by a different dominant race (elves, lycanthropes, mer, dwarves, vampires, etc.) that must face the challenges and logistics of government while maintaining an uneasy peace among the known parallel realms. All are linked by dimensional portals, some fixed and some manipulable. A Council of Realms presides, but opposing factions, the Seelie and Unseelie Courts persist in political intrigue, plots, and assassination. No one trusts mankind - a complication for our FMC who discovers such a fixed portal in her inheritance.

As for interesting an agent, I can be of no assistance. After about a dozen query rejections, we elected to desist the search and re-edit. We're about halfway through.

Meanwhile, a fifth volume is underway - albeit slowly. And we've since begun a police procedural/MST that's maybe half done (17 chapters).

The writing is fun; the agent chase - not so much.

hlynn117 said:

Basically, I want to write fantasy about government and what it means for the characters in my story to be ruled by specific types of governments. I like Big Themes in my fiction, and I find the ones I gravitate to are political themes and how those affect my character's world view.

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I'm trying to do a bit of this with my current, very nascent WIP as well.

Does you share this affinity? How much political drama do you like in your fantasy? Is this type of writing better in other fantasy genre? Do you believe it belongs in high fantasy? Also, how do you sell this to an agent?

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I don't think selling it to an agent is even a question. The thing is, high fantasy already tends to do this (well, at least George R. R. Martin did), they just do it within a medieval construct. I would think the market is always super-ripe for good epic fantasy that isn't based on the medieval construct just because people haven't seen it as much and that makes it more exciting.

Anyway, FWIW, I'd read the s*** out of stuff like this, as long as I liked and identified with the characters. And I'm not even much of a high fantasy person.

What exactly constitutes "court intrigue"? I'm curious, because a quick Google of it sounds like what you're asking, TC. Political developments of a world.

Arguably Game of Thrones combines politics with fantasy, but I suspect it's more of a family feud thing, rather than out-and-out politics with a capital P. But that's what actually interests me the most in these worlds, rather than dragons and magic. When I was rewatching LoTR, I kept wanting to switch away from Frodo and get back to Aragorn because I wanted to know more about the relationships of the kingdoms Gondor/Rohan and that stuff.

For my space opera WIP, my protagonists are from the military branch of a government body that loosely resembles the Third Reich and there is a political officer posted on each warship. My commander character is being blackmailed into staying in the service after his wife was abducted by the state police for being a political activist and for having suspected ties/loyalties to a distant opposing superpower (akin to the Red Scare, with a sci-fi twist); she was turned in by their daughter who later becomes a fanatical government agent and prominent antagonist in the story. Then there are a bunch of historical conflicts scattered throughout flashbacks that are inspired by stuff like America's role in Vietnam/Iraq, British Empire/colonist relations... all that fun stuff.

Thinking about LotR and Tolkien's attention to details of governance. whether in the Shire or Rohan or Gondor reminded me of something Larry McMurtry wrote in Sacagawea's Nickname: These Journals {of Lewis and Clark] are to the narrative of the American West as the Iliad is to the epic or Don Quixote is to the novel: a first exemplar so great as to contain in embryo the genre's full potential." To birth it, not to exhaust it. GRRM has mined the vein in high fantasy and brought forth some fine nuggets. As have others with best sellers, and as some of you are doing, too.
Threads can wander, even be hi-jacked: I am resisting the temptation to open the discussion to governance on the SF side. Other than to recall what Margaret Atwood said after first rejecting the suggestion that some of her novels were science fiction. "Well," she supposedly amended that remark, "I guess one could call it social science fiction." That's where I'm writing, near-future SF, but that should be another thread.
Trevor, feeling virtuous

About 1/2 of my WIP is devoted to a political revolution in elfland, involving the passage of something resembling the Magna Carta and demands for equality between different magical races.

I don't know if it'll sell, but I'm hardly at that point. Right now, I'm just happy writing the best story I can.

Does anyone remember the TV show Kings? The interplay of these nations and, yes, even the court intrigue, was excellent, IMO. I enjoyed the series.

I was, apparently, in the minority. Too bad.

I like this sort of thing too, as long as it has really good characters with their own dramas so I don't feel like I'm reading a fictional history book, lol.

Most of my stories are epic fantasy, and they all involve TONS of complex politics. Sometimes they focus on characters who are actually politicians, sometimes on others who are just trying to do their thing and stay out of the way of the vast, and kind of unstable, political climate I've created.

I set all my books on the same world, so each further develops and changes the political and social climate for the next. I really like the level of complexity it has reached. Or maybe I'm just a sucker for any world teetering on the brink of total war. It is really fun to come up with the long-term and far-reaching effects of my previous stories as settings for the new ones, though.

Chasing the Horizon said:

Most of my stories are epic fantasy, and they all involve TONS of complex politics. Sometimes they focus on characters who are actually politicians, sometimes on others who are just trying to do their thing and stay out of the way of the vast, and kind of unstable, political climate I've created.

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That's sounds cool. I've mentally thrown around a fantasy idea that revolves around a woman senator-like character who makes a power play for a troubled city plagued by corruption (administrated by a puppet from a more dominant empire), and the story focuses on her warrior-daughter who does her dirty work behind the political forefront. It'll be years and years before I ever attempt on the idea, which somehow plays into my current way-unfinished WIP, but it is a good daydream .

hlynn117 said:

My attraction to LoTR stems from my interest in the side characters who are not the Chosen Ones. Those characters, the Merry and Pippin and and Gimili and Eowyns of the world, are the ones I want to read about in any form of fiction. ...

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Yeah, for sure. When we were watching it, I kept asking (and most likely annoying) my friends about the lore because I never read the books. I love the workings of the *almost-political* situation of the world-- like when Theoden was all like, "WHERE WAS GONDOR WHEN..." etc, and the history between humans and elves, and any mentions to past battles, I eat that shit right up.

I don't know if you're familiar with the game Dragon Age, but it has a healthy dose of political intrigue beneath its fantastical exterior. There are kingdoms facing upheaval/usurpation, elves are second-class citizens to men and are subject to segregation and prejudice (their forest dwelling kin are regarded as gypsies, just about) and mages are tightly and forcefully controlled by the religious Templars. But I kind of hate the fantasy and spiritual/magic elements of the game and on subsequent playthroughs, try to put off or avoid doing those sections.

hlynn117 said:

but I don't want to write a 'who is screwing who' story.

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Haha, I'd imagine it's easy to fall into the trap of veering too close to soap opera if you're not careful. I sometimes think my own characters spend a little too much time navel-gazing and getting into yelling matches so it's just two weeks of intense brooding on a spaceship, but I digress.

It is a fair point to note that scandal does have its place in the game of politics, sometimes .

Erikson's Malazon books have fairly strong political flavors, although it's mixed with a lot of diplomacy since the story is international.



One of my story projects I hope to work on some day involves two Empires in conflict, and a client state if one if them is on the verge of being overrun by the other, and there's a great deal of politicking about whether they are going to withdraw and leave it to its fate.

Totally, totally, TOTALLY.

In fact, what you're proposing capitalizes on one of the hallmark traits of fantasy (well, secondary-world fantasy, anyway): in the real world, we all have deeply-held opinions about this country or that political party, but when your reader steps into Fantasyland, he or she has NO pre-existing prejudices to get in the way. They don't know anything about the Seven Kingdoms of Alla'Khazm except what you tell them, and can look at realistic, complex issues in ways that are harder to do here in carbon-world.

The only place where I've seen writers really put their foot in it, where politics are concerned, is when the story comes to a dead halt for 80 pages of dithering backroom machinations. (Seen that griped about a lot in reviews for Eragon, the Wheel of Time, and plenty of others.) But if you can make the political maneuverings an integral part of your characters' story, rather than an irritating distraction from it, I think you would be in great shape.