Publishing w/o Contract

Stonecold2338 · Feb 23, 2012

About two weeks ago I was looking over my contract with PA and I noticed the contract was for "Texas Justice", the book that PA is publishing & selling is "Jake's Justice". I sent PA a e-mail telling them they didn't have a contract for "Jake's Justice" and all I got back was Bull-Shit that I didn't buy, so now they delete all my e-mails. That's OK, because they don't have Manuscript for "Texas Justice" and I have been putting it all over Tweeter and my blogs.
Everyday I put the truth about PA on tweeter under the names Tom Proffitt and Tommy Proffitt and I know PA see's them, but I don't give a Dam, I want PA to see them.
I have told them in a e-mail to Loretta that I will send them a Manuscript for "Texas Justice", but I don't get a answer. Guess what kind of Manuscript they would get !
I think I have 12 blogs trying to warn new authors.

twm · Feb 23, 2012

But did you sign it?

JulieB · Feb 23, 2012

Four questions:

1. Did you send them the manuscript for "Texas Justice?"

2. Did you sign the contract?

3. If so, did they publish it as "Jake's Justice?"

4. Or is there something else going on? If so, please take the time to fully explain it so we'll understand what's going on.

Publishers generally reserve the right to change the title of a book.

It seems PA already has a book by called "Texas Justice" under contract, which is probably why they changed the title of yours.

And no, it's no unusual to sign a contract with a manuscript title and have the publisher change the title. It happened to me, and I had to agree with the publisher's decision. The new title provided a ready-made tag line for the cover, plus fodder for a marketing campaign.

Stonecold2338 · Feb 24, 2012

Publishing w/o contract

JulieB said:
Four questions:

1. Did you send them the manuscript for "Texas Justice?"

2. Did you sign the contract?

3. If so, did they publish it as "Jake's Justice?"

4. Or is there something else going on? If so, please take the time to fully explain it so we'll understand what's going on.

Publishers generally reserve the right to change the title of a book.

It seems PA already has a book by called "Texas Justice" under contract, which is probably why they changed the title of yours.

And no, it's no unusual to sign a contract with a manuscript title and have the publisher change the title. It happened to me, and I had to agree with the publisher's decision. The new title provided a ready-made tag line for the cover, plus fodder for a marketing campaign.

I signed the Texas Justice contract and that is all, as far as the Jake's Justice, there is no contract. They didn't send me a contract to sign for Jake's Justice and I have a contract for Texas Justice but they don't have the manuscript for Texas Justice and the law should be on my side.
I will stand by what I am saying because I didn't see anything in the contract that say's they can change anything without my agreement on paper ! If I am wrong then why didn't they show me on paper ?

Stonecold2338 · Feb 24, 2012

If you have a book being published and you don't have a contract with the same title on the contract as the one on the book then I guess that's up to you if you just want to let it go like that !

Stonecold2338 · Feb 24, 2012

Publishing w/o contract

twm said:
But did you sign it?

The only thing I have signed is the contract for Texas Justice !
The only manuscript they have is for Jake's Justice ! The change was made before I sent the manuscript for Jake's Justice and I didn't sign anything saying they could make a title change and they didn't send me a new contract.

amergina · Feb 24, 2012

I would read the contract you have very carefully to make sure that there isn't a provision in there that allows them to change the title without your written approval.

Contracts are tricky things, and PA is very very very good at playing the contract game.

JulieB · Feb 24, 2012

The last PA contract I saw had no specific mention of control over the title. However, it mentions that the "literary work at present is known as [Title]...." That suggests to me the possibility that the title can change.

The contract goes on to say that the publisher has control over the design and cover, too.

Did you not get a proof copy? What was the title? If it was "Jake's Justice," then THAT was your chance to ask why the title was changed.

Also, I went in my files and looked back at my first contract, just to refresh my memory. Yep, the title was different. But the publisher had the right to change it, and I will say again that the title change was for the better. The new title was a far better fit, and it worked wonders from a marketing standpoint. The book almost immediately went into a second printing.

Did you not see my note beforehand that PA seems to already have a book called "Texas Justice" under contract? I'm one of the last people to defend PA, but they probably did you a favor by changing the title so there would be no chance of confusion with the other book. Imagine the poor rep with a commercial publisher who has to convince a bookstore to stock TWO books in the same genre from the same publisher with the same title!

And what if you had paid PA to push your book to stores or for another promotion and someone messed up and gave the promotion to the other book? Imagine one of your friends going to B&N to order a copy of your book and getting a copy of the OTHER "Texas Justice" instead. Since the book is non-returnable, your friend would have to buy a second copy, unless he or she could convince the bookstore they made a mistake on the order.

THIS is why PA changed the title, and this is why it's perfectly within the rights of a publisher to do so unless the contract gives the author control over that aspect. As Amergina said, look at your contract and see if you get any say.

kaitie · Feb 24, 2012

I am so not a lawyer so this is nowhere near legal advice, but here's what I'm not understanding: PA didn't steal a manuscript from your hard drive. It sounds to me like you signed the contract and then perhaps sent them the wrong one?

Is it possible that if you try to fight them on this, they can turn it around on you and say that you sent the wrong manuscript, and thus they did nothing wrong? In fact, if you haven't produced the manuscript you're contracted for, can't they actually say that you're in breach of contract?

I get that the manuscript they published isn't the one on the contract, but I'm not quite sure I see this as being an open and shut case on your end. Hopefully someone who knows something about contracts can weigh in.

ETA: Okay I think maybe I'm misunderstanding the situation here in general. My impression was that a different manuscript had been published under the wrong title, but you're saying instead that they just changed the title? I'm not sure if there's much that can be done about that. Publishers change titles all the time.

James D. Macdonald · Feb 24, 2012

Let's see if I have this right:

You sent them a manuscript.
You signed a contract.
They published that manuscript in book form but the title on the book is different from the title on the manuscript.

Is that the summary?

Stonecold2338 · Feb 25, 2012

Publishing w/o contract

James D. Macdonald said:
Let's see if I have this right:

You sent them a manuscript.
You signed a contract.
They published that manuscript in book form but the title on the book is different from the title on the manuscript.

Is that the summary?

No, The title on my contract is different from the title on the book that is being published and sold.

Stonecold2338 · Feb 25, 2012

Publishing w/o contract

kaitie said:
I am so not a lawyer so this is nowhere near legal advice, but here's what I'm not understanding: PA didn't steal a manuscript from your hard drive. It sounds to me like you signed the contract and then perhaps sent them the wrong one?

Is it possible that if you try to fight them on this, they can turn it around on you and say that you sent the wrong manuscript, and thus they did nothing wrong? In fact, if you haven't produced the manuscript you're contracted for, can't they actually say that you're in breach of contract?

I get that the manuscript they published isn't the one on the contract, but I'm not quite sure I see this as being an open and shut case on your end. Hopefully someone who knows something about contracts can weigh in.

ETA: Okay I think maybe I'm misunderstanding the situation here in general. My impression was that a different manuscript had been published under the wrong title, but you're saying instead that they just changed the title? I'm not sure if there's much that can be done about that. Publishers change titles all the time.

To make a long story short, My contract is for Texas Justice and PA doesn't have the manuscript for Texas Justice. I ask them if they wanted the manuscript for Texas Justice and got no reply from them. They are not saying they have a contract on Jake's Justice because they don't have a contract that reads Jake's Justice, they just tried to feed me some bull-shit and didn't produce any signed agreement by me as per pragraph 10 in my contract.

JulieB · Feb 25, 2012

James D. Macdonald said:
Let's see if I have this right:

You sent them a manuscript.
You signed a contract.
They published that manuscript in book form but the title on the book is different from the title on the manuscript.

Is that the summary?

Stonecold2338 said:
No, The title on my contract is different from the title on the book that is being published and sold.

So, when you turned in the manuscript, did it have a title? If so, what was the title on the manuscript you turned into them?

Stonecold2338 said:
To make a long story short, My contract is for Texas Justice and PA doesn't have the manuscript for Texas Justice. I ask them if they wanted the manuscript for Texas Justice and got no reply from them. They are not saying they have a contract on Jake's Justice because they don't have a contract that reads Jake's Justice, they just tried to feed me some bull-shit and didn't produce any signed agreement by me as per pragraph 10 in my contract.

This is all a confusing mess. I'm going to ask some more questions, and please be specific in your answers.

1. Are "Texas Justice" and "Jake's Justice" two different books? If so, when you turned in "Jake's Justice," did you make it clear that this was a separate submission? Again, I'm hardly one to go about defending PA, but someone may have thought you decided to change the title.

To be perfectly clear: Is the only difference in "Texas Justice" and "Jake's Justice" the title? (At least the only substantial difference.) Yes or no?

2. Did you or did you not get a proof copy to look over? When the proof copy came back, is this when you complained? Or did you wait until publication?

3. Would you mind posting the text of paragraph 10? PA does change their contracts from time to time, and it would help to know exactly what that bit says.

4. Going back to question 2, would you mind giving us a timeline of events? That might clear up a lot of confusion.

Stonecold2338 · Feb 25, 2012

Why do I get the feeling I am dealing with PA all over again ?
So just forget it !

Terie · Feb 25, 2012

Stonecold2338 said:
Why do I get the feeling I am dealing with PA all over again ?
So just forget it !

If you won't supply the simple and plain facts about your situation, it's hardly the fault of anyone here.

amergina · Feb 25, 2012

You know, people here are trying to help you. None of us like PA.

DeadlyAccurate · Feb 25, 2012

You won't communicate clearly, but you want to blame everyone here who is trying to help you? A title change is unlikely to be sufficient to nullify the contract. What you want it to mean is irrelevant. It's what you're legally bound to that matters.

PA has a lawyer and a pretty good one at that (you don't have to be a nice person to be a good lawyer). If you don't want to find yourself on the wrong end of a lawsuit, it's to your benefit to pay attention when people are trying to keep you out of trouble.

Or you can continue to put your fingers in your ears and ignore everyone here. PA's execs read this board regularly, so they're well aware of what you're trying to do by now.

Jersey Chick · Feb 25, 2012

Stonecold2338 said:
Why do I get the feeling I am dealing with PA all over again ?
So just forget it !

Nice. Attitude.

You're making very little sense and when anyone posts to ask you clarify, your response is this? Really?

If I were you, I'd rethink a few things, maybe go read the Newbie Guide, and come back. Otherwise, you're going to find very few people willing to help with whatever it is you're trying to say here.

Uncarved · Feb 25, 2012

Let me take a stab at it.

You are saying that you sold a book to PA called "Jake's Justice" and they are selling it. But you noticed your contract says Texas Justice not Jake's Justice and you think this is good enough to get out of the contract?

Correct?

Yea, that ain't gonna work.
Sorry. Find another loop hole to get out of your bad decision.

Edited to add: Found the book http://www.publishamerica.net/product24409.html
Complete with nifty sample of the writing.

James D. Macdonald · Feb 25, 2012

Stonecold2338 said:
No, The title on my contract is different from the title on the book that is being published and sold.

That isn't what I asked.

1) Did you send them a manuscript (regardless of the title)?
2) Did they publish that manuscript in book form (regardless of the title)?

JulieB · Feb 25, 2012

Stonecold2338 said:
Why do I get the feeling I am dealing with PA all over again ?
So just forget it !

No one can help you if you don't provide the facts. That's all we're asking you to do.

cbenoi1 · Feb 25, 2012

Sounds like two manuscripts which PA mixed up.

Texas Justice. Manuscript has not been sent yet. But somehow this is the one contract which is signed.

Jake's Justice. Complete and sent to PA, but PA didn't send back any contract for it. Then PA decides to go ahead and publish it anyway - using the signed contract for "Texas Justice" (probably claiming it's just a title change).

-cb

James D. Macdonald · Feb 25, 2012

cbenoi1 said:
Sounds like two manuscripts which PA mixed up.

That's possible, but not the only reading.

If the OP can't or won't clarify there isn't a darned thing I can do for him.

Stonecold2338 · Feb 25, 2012

Publishing w/o contract

DeadlyAccurate said:
You won't communicate clearly, but you want to blame everyone here who is trying to help you? A title change is unlikely to be sufficient to nullify the contract. What you want it to mean is irrelevant. It's what you're legally bound to that matters.

PA has a lawyer and a pretty good one at that (you don't have to be a nice person to be a good lawyer). If you don't want to find yourself on the wrong end of a lawsuit, it's to your benefit to pay attention when people are trying to keep you out of trouble.

Or you can continue to put your fingers in your ears and ignore everyone here. PA's execs read this board regularly, so they're well aware of what you're trying to do by now.

It seems to me that no one read what I said, I didn't say will you help me ! But if you want to help me that bad then get ten blogs and start posting and go to tweeter and start telling the truth about PA and forget about the contract thing because I'm not worried about any dam contract.
Do you understand what I just said ??

Stonecold2338 · Feb 25, 2012

I hope everyone understands what I just said, don't tell me what you are going to do, just do it !!

Publishing w/o Contract

Stonecold2338

twm

JulieB

I grow my own catnip

Stonecold2338

Stonecold2338

Stonecold2338

amergina

Pittsburgh Strong

JulieB

I grow my own catnip

kaitie

With great power comes

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle

Stonecold2338

Stonecold2338

JulieB

I grow my own catnip

Stonecold2338

Terie

Writer is as Writer does

amergina

Pittsburgh Strong

DeadlyAccurate

Absolutely Fazed

Jersey Chick

Up all night to get Loki

Uncarved

I aim to misbehave

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle

JulieB

I grow my own catnip

cbenoi1

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle

Stonecold2338

Stonecold2338