The Next Circle of Hell

Two R&Rs sounds pretty good, WonderCat! I'm curious, do the two editors want you to revise in similar ways, or do they have totally different concerns?

I don't know how often R&Rs from editors lead to offers, but I know there are stories of that happening on this thread and elsewhere on AW; I believe this book is an example, IIRC. Of course, I've also heard of it not working out, either because the author didn't commit to the revisions or the editor couldn't get the revised book through the next set of hoops. But I haven't noticed an overall pattern.

This is a generalization, but I don't think editors or agents offer an R&R unless they're pretty serious. The more notes they give you, the more serious I'd guess they are (because that takes a lot of time!).

My agent initially offered me an R&R. I was disappointed not to get an offer — until I saw her notes, which were copious and very well attuned to the book. I realized this was something different from the less enthusiastic R&Rs I'd occasionally seen in the past ("Query me again if you can make the narrator less snarky" — that type of thing).

What does your agent think; did he/she suggest you prioritize one or another of the R&Rs, or wait and see what happens with the other subs first?

Fuchsia Groan said:

This is a generalization, but I don't think editors or agents offer an R&R unless they're pretty serious. The more notes they give you, the more serious I'd guess they are (because that takes a lot of time!).

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And just to give the flip side, I had a phone call with an agent - super reputable with lots of sales - who had read TWO of my manuscripts (long story how she read them both before responding to me) and we had a phone call, wherein she told me I was a perfect fit for the agency and she was 100% confident I could complete the revisions to her liking. For one of the manuscripts, the revision she asked for was extremely minor - it was a structural thing that took me maybe two hours total. The other one was more extensive. I completed both revisions, had no fewer than five CPs vet the major revision, sent them off, then waited NINE MONTHS for the agent to ultimately reject me. The major revision just didn't work for her, and she had decided that the other one was a book she could sell, but not as a debut (which she hadn't mentioned before) so I should let her know when I had a new manuscript.

I try not to take rejection personally and I think very highly of many (many!) agents who have rejected me, but this one still makes me fume a little when I see her name.

In brighter news, got the thumbs up from my agent on my YA. She's still formulating the game plan, so it's not on sub yet, but my work is done (for this stage). I am thrilled by that, because I had definitely reached that lost-all-perspective place with it.

JoyMC said:

I try not to take rejection personally and I think very highly of many (many!) agents who have rejected me, but this one still makes me fume a little when I see her name.

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I would fume, too! It's awful to get strung along -- for nine months, yet. (I was lucky in that my agent ended up not waiting for the R&R; she offered rep the day after we discussed it.)

Yay for thumbs up! That's very exciting. So maybe you'll have two on sub soon?

Thanks, everyone.

The agent is recommending waiting to see what they other editors say before we decide what to do. The two R&Rs have some similarities, but I would definitely have to choose which direction to take. That said, I haven't seen notes yet (which is another issue: do I ask for notes from both editors? I have no idea.)

waited NINE MONTHS for the agent to ultimately reject me.

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This is the kind of thing that gives me pause!

Got through the Rejection Notorious Monday and Tuesday without an R, so I'm going to breathe easy for the rest of the week.

Oh Gawd, RWA was exhausting, but it was an awesome conference. I'm playing catch up now on everything and updating my agent on the contacts I made.

I've been reading over the posts I missed while I was gone and want to make some general comments (partly because I'm too lazy to go back and find out who said what. lol!). On the "agents were all excited but editors aren't biting thing..." I've been there. It happens. It sucks, but what can you do?? I literally got multiple offers of rep from my top list of agents but that same manuscript hasn't sold. Even had one top 5 house editor hold onto it for 6 months because she just couldn't let it go. Sometimes those rejections hurt worse than form ones. You just have to keep writing killer content and shopping your work. The stars will align eventually. Case in point, at RWA an author mentioned that a few years ago, one of her manuscripts didn't sell no matter who it was pitched to. Then two years later they tried again, and it sold at auction. Sometimes it's not the writing, but the timing.

And Fuschia!!!!! Major congrats!!

Somewhat off-topic question, friends! How early in the process do you send your agent stuff from a new project? I want to combat all this silence with a shiny new project, but I'm torn between three different ideas. My agent helped me with picking a new project last time (I sent her the first chapter of each back then) but I always worry about sending out first drafty things...

Beckstah said:

Somewhat off-topic question, friends! How early in the process do you send your agent stuff from a new project? I want to combat all this silence with a shiny new project, but I'm torn between three different ideas. My agent helped me with picking a new project last time (I sent her the first chapter of each back then) but I always worry about sending out first drafty things...

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I'm sure it varies from agent to agent, but since we share an agent, I can speak more specifically. At one point I asked her how she'd like me to approach new projects/ideas and she basically said just pitches/ideas alone don't do anything for her - she wants an idea of the voice (so a sample chapter from each was probably ideal). But I totally get your worry about early draftiness - when I had completed a first draft of my YA, I sent her the first 30 pages, to get an okay from her on the general direction before I did all the work of revision. (And while the whole thing was a first draft, I had been working on the first few chapters for a couple years off and on, so it felt pretty solid.) But then I got CP feedback that prompted a change to the beginning and I totally panicked and wrote and told her not to read what I had sent and I waited until I felt much more solid about the whole thing.

My crazy freak-out aside I think at this point she's been through multiple manuscripts with you, she knows what you can do in revisions, and as long as you're up front that these are early-draft sample chapters just to give her an idea of the voice, that's a good way to go.

(I'm also happy to peek at whatever for you and give you feedback, though if it's YA horror, that's not really my thing.)

Thank you, Joy! I'm still feeling this whole thing out, even a year and a half later. Last time I went into things thinking I wouldn't send her anything that wasn't 100% up to my standards, but she encouraged me to send my hot mess of a half-finished draft after I sent her the relatively polished Chapter One. And without her pointers on smoothing out the exposition kinks, it probably would have taken me forever to finish that draft, let alone revise it. So clearly getting her feedback early and often is an excellent call, even if it's nervewracking.

And thank you so much for the offer - if I need more eyes on any of these, I will definitely shoot you an e-mail! Two of the projects are forays into MG, so I need all the help I can get. (Although the YA horror one has the phrase you translated for me, so you totally had a part in that )

I'm gearing up to send something right now. My agent and I discussed this a few weeks into the sub process, and I just revised it yet again, so I have no excuse not to.

It's a little scary because this is the project that lost me my first agent after he deemed it impossible to sell. I've overhauled it quite a bit, changing the whole plot structure, but I'm still prepared to hear it doesn't work. Oh well, I've got other drafts and ideas. There is one book I refuse to give up on, but this isn't it.

Thanks, Mandy! Sounds like you had an awesomely productive RWA!

Thanks everybody for the well-wishes!

I had my phone call with the editor this week. She said she loves the story and characters, we chatted quite a bit about the world the book is set in, and I am confident that she "gets" it and would be wonderful to work with. I simply liked her on a personal level, and it seemed like the feeling was mutual. (She now reads my blog, yay!)

The call felt fairly lengthy (about half an hour). She was frank about believing the book would not be successful if we continued along the YA path, and said if we wanted to keep it as is, we should approach adult editors instead. (Agent says this is consistent with the other rejections we've received so far.) But, if we're open to an R&R to make it more YA and relatable to a younger audience, she's definitely interested and would love to keep in touch with an open door. She told me to reach out at any time for feedback and asked for permission to reach out reciprocally if any ideas struck her. It felt like an excellent conversation!

We're still waiting to hear back from about 15 editors, but based on the consistency of the rejection feedback, it feels like the writing is on the wall. I'm already working on fleshing out the revision in my spare time along the lines of what the editor and I discussed, so that we're ready to go and don't waste any time if we do, indeed, decide to resubmit. It's nice to have something else to focus on and a little bit of hope for the (potential) resubmission!

My fingers are crossed for you, WonderCat!

NJC, that sounds really positive overall. I hope you feel good about where the revision's heading. Good luck!

I got a literary magazine acceptance today for a short story I submitted more than a year ago. I thought it was DOA, so that was a lovely Friday surprise.

Have a great weekend, everyone. For all of you guys on sub, wishing you a rejection-free Monday and awesome news soon!

That sounds like an awesome phone call, NJC! So good to have an editor in your corner. Do you need to make the packager a party to the revision, or can you go ahead and do it on your own? (I don't know much about how packaging works, even though one of the first stories I was ever assigned at the paper where I work was basically "WTF is a book packager?" Long time ago.)

Congrats on the acceptance, Quickbread! I know how hard it is to make it into those literary journals; have a bunch of rejections to prove it.

Quick and NJC, congratulations! WonderCat, my fingers are crossed for you!

Alas, nothing to report on my end. The silence is killing me!

Monday AM update!

We had a call with an editor at a big house this morning who said she loves the story. Her concern was the same concern that everybody else has had (not YA enough), but she seemed much less bothered by it and said it was fixable. I workshopped a tweak that would allow us to keep the same basic story but would theoretically fix the problem relatively easily, and both she and my agent liked it. She's going to her colleagues with the new pitch and says she thinks she can get them to go for it.

My agent has set a closing date by this Wednesday, so I am biting my nails and praying to the gods!

If it sells to this editor, I will be doing happy backflips. The only snag is that the full manuscript (since this is a partial) would be due in December...when I will have a 6 week old newborn and be living in sleep-deprived zombieland! I had to tell the editor that I was due in late October (I'd been hoping to keep the pregnancy a secret lest it scared them) but assured her that if we worked together, I'd make the deadline by hook or by crook.

Please keep your fingers crossed for me for Wednesday!!

Fuschia, it's been interesting working with the packager. He's been involved every step of the way, and it's a delicate dance between making the story my own and remembering that he also has a stake and a voice in it. Luckily, he's great and his ideas are fantastic. I'll work on a chapter at a time, kick it over to him for revisions and feedback, and then we trade drafts back and forth. Occasionally, there's minor squabbling over words and sentences, but for the most part, we're on the same page.

The only bad part is that it minimizes my ability to write with the door closed, so to speak, because I need to present him with my A-game on a weekly basis. In the beginning, I sent along drafts, taking pains to explain that they were very rough...but he started working off of those as if they were completed, which led to panic on my part! It forces me to be on point, but it doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room.

Ooh, that's so exciting, NJC! Let us know what happens on Wednesday (if you can). Sounds like your book has a winner of a concept.

I'm still in limbo, not hearing anything new and not allowed to say anything. Summer!

Beckstah, hang in there! You'll make it through the dog days. Maybe those editors have your book on the Kindles in their beach bags. (I have no idea how editors operate, but this is the kind of scenario I like to imagine, mainly because I want to work at the beach. )

*Holds Lily* Crossables crossed for a quick sale!

Congrats NJC and Quickbread!!

WonderCat, good luck!

Beckstah, I'm so with you on the waiting--my awesome agent sent out a bunch of nudges and received vacation auto-replies. The joys of August! .

In other news, we have a new printer at work, and I'm about to go all "Office Space" on it...

Here's to a Monday with no rejections for us!

Bon courage, Lily! May you get good news soon!

What are these things called "vacations" I keep hearing about? I'm trying to persuade my boss we need more help so we can take time off without leaving each other insane amounts of work. But we're too busy to hire. *sigh*

Hoping for a quick sale for you, Lily!!