No response to full – possible blocked email?

Old Hack

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Old Hack, I've just been and reread the OP and as far as I can tell the topic is that the poster was asked to email a full, did so, and received no acknowledgement.

How exactly are my comments that not acknowledging email is rude, not on topic? My comments were about agents who don't acknowledge submissions, so not, as you rightly point out, the majority, but apparently the agent with whom the OP is dealing.

Sophie, Sophie, Sophie.

You need to reread the original post in this thread, I think. Let me help you with that:

About four months ago I sent a query to an agent using their agency’s online form. A few days later I got an email from the agent asking for the full.

[...]

I did not get a confirmation that my full was received. After no response I sent a polite nudge at the three month mark. Now almost a month later, I still have gotten no response.

[...]

Would it be out of line for me to call or contact the agent/agency about this?

Those among us who have been blessed by the gods of good reading comprehension will understand that the original post was about whether or not the OP should phone the agent to check whether or not her full had been received; it was not about how agents who don't acknowledge receipt are "lazy, rude and shitty", which is what you wrote, and which is what I took exception to.

If you want to try to bicker with me you're welcome to, but you will receive a time-out for doing so. Just so we're clear. Now, back on topic, please. For the second time. Thank you.
 

Phaeal

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When I got an offer, 2 agents that had had my full for 6 months and ignored one or two status queries replied within a day of my "I have an offer" e-mail. They had received the full just fine.

This is exactly what happened to me. Agents who'd had my full for nine months or more immediately replied with congrats when I wrote to tell them I'd accepted another offer of representation.

I still smile thinking about how relieved they must have been.

:D
 

SophieM2401

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I said, "I think this increasingly common "No response means no" policy is just lazy, rude and shitty", not that the agents themselves are. You pointed out that your friend has introduced the policy reluctantly - presumably therefore she agrees that it's born of perceived necessity not best practice.

And I really don't think it's necessary to be patronising - in fact I think that's pretty rude too.

Anyway I am going to leave this now - I'm sure we both have better things to do than split hairs :)
 

Old Hack

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I said, "I think this increasingly common "No response means no" policy is just lazy, rude and shitty", not that the agents themselves are. You pointed out that your friend has introduced the policy reluctantly - presumably therefore she agrees that it's born of perceived necessity not best practice.

And I really don't think it's necessary to be patronising - in fact I think that's pretty rude too.

Anyway I am going to leave this now - I'm sure we both have better things to do than split hairs :)

You're right that I have better things to do, Sophie. I, for example, have a ban-hammer to wield.

You now have three days off to wonder whether bickering with a mod after you've been asked twice to stop it was a wise thing to do. Enjoy your break.
 

Undercover

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There's all kinds of agents out there, some good and some bad. Saying most agents are good OH is only coming from your experience. I am not bashing agents or calling them names. I am just pointing out that "some" agents don't treat authors very well, that's all.

Same thing of what others have said, everyone has a different experience. Assuming I don't know many agents or how they work is wrong on your part. Again that's assuming from what I've written. Granted I don't know many agents on a personal level like you might, but I've run across many and conversed with quite a few to know there are some bad apples out there. In my experience, there not most good. In my experience it's mixed.

I'm not going to bs it and praise every agent I've run into. I respect every agent I come across. I think the bottom line here (pertaining to no response after a full request) happens. And after a nudge or two, move on. I also agree not to call an agency on it. If they want your ms. they wouldn't be ignoring your messages. It's a hard nut to swallow when they don't respond, especially after expressing an interest. I'm not talking about non-response queries, that's expected. I'm referring to the ones that wanted to read the whole thing and then nada. It's the name of the game. But lets not forget there are some agents out there that do respond favorably.

To the OP, it's a healthy choice to query other agents and let this one rest. And from what it sounds like, you know now not to call in the future if something like this happens again. Good luck with your process.
 

Calla Lily

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Undercover, we're writers. It's our job to own our words. You said this (bolding mine):


Yeah, well it's unfortunate, but not surprising. As I mentioned it sucks the way agents treat authors sometimes. You're just another number to them. Even when you're a client, you're treated differently then the cash cows of the agency, especially if your work doesn't sell. If you're going to query other agents, like you should, expect it to happen again (the no response even after request.)

Then you said (bolding mine):

There's all kinds of agents out there, some good and some bad. Saying most agents are good OH is only coming from your experience. I am not bashing agents or calling them names. I am just pointing out that "some" agents don't treat authors very well, that's all.

Same thing of what others have said, everyone has a different experience. Assuming I don't know many agents or how they work is wrong on your part. Again that's assuming from what I've written. Granted I don't know many agents on a personal level like you might, but I've run across many and conversed with quite a few to know there are some bad apples out there. In my experience, there not most good. In my experience it's mixed.

Own your words. Admit you blanket-bashed agents and then realized the error and revised. Because writers and agents pay attention to what we say, just as we ourselves should.

/lecture
 

Barbara R.

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Yeah, well it's unfortunate, but not surprising. As I mentioned it sucks the way agents treat authors sometimes. You're just another number to them. Even when you're a client, you're treated differently then the cash cows of the agency, especially if your work doesn't sell. If you're going to query other agents, like you should, expect it to happen again (the no response even after request.)

Undercover, sounds like you've had a hard time with agents. I agree that the new "No response means no" is a bitter pill for writers, and even though I understand the reasons for it, I think agents should find a better way, even if it's a robo-rejection. In my experience, though, clients are treated very differently and far more respectfully than unsolicited applicants. Obviously every agent is an individual, and there are bound to be some stinkers among them. But the ones I know (and as a former agent myself, I know a bunch) are deeply invested in their clients' work and careers.
 

seun

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In my very humble opinion, a querier should NEVER call an agency unprompted.

FWIW, I've called a couple of agencies to clarify a name and/or address (due to conflicting info online). Obviously, I was as polite and to the point as I could be. Both times, the people I spoke to were happy to give me the info. Saying that, I wouldn't call to check the status of a sub.
 

blueobsidian

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Yeah, well it's unfortunate, but not surprising. As I mentioned it sucks the way agents treat authors sometimes. You're just another number to them. Even when you're a client, you're treated differently then the cash cows of the agency, especially if your work doesn't sell. If you're going to query other agents, like you should, expect it to happen again (the no response even after request.)

The word "some" is not in this post. You just said "agents." Whether you meant to or not, you implied that all agents treat their authors like this (which is just flat out not true).
 

mccardey

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Oh, dear - I do hope there aren't going to be tears so close to Christmas... :granny:
 

waylander

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I know that a significant number of agencies have moved to "no response = rejection" for unsolicitied queries, but are there any who state 'no response = rejection" to solicited materials such as full manuscripts?
It has been a while since I was in the query wars, but I always got a reply to a requested full, though in some cases it took a protracted wait.
 

Unimportant

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It wasn't this bad in years past. Even months past. It's getting much worse how agents are treating authors.
It seems unlikely that the literary agent community has, in the last few months, been hit with some kind of behaviour-altering virus. So, while Undercover's recent experience may have been problematic, it's probably not universal or likely to extrapolate to other authors who are planning to start querying. I'd be willing to bet money that the vast majority of agents today are, by and large, the same people they were a year ago.

Agents are professionals. Sure, there is bound to be the occasional loser among them -- what profession doesn't have its losers? And there are the scammers -- what profession doesn't have its scam artists? But, in the main, agents are working business people, and authors approach them with a query that in essence is saying "Hello, I'd like to enter into a business relationship with you." But, just as not every financial advisor or lawyer or doctor or landscaper or architect or mortgage loan provider or investment partner would be right for a given individual, neither is every agent right for a given author.

If an author doesn't like a particular agent's business practices -- whether that be long response times or form rejects or no auto-email notifications or whatever -- well, then, don't do business with them. It doesn't seem like such a big deal to me.

Adding:
Unfortunately, it is true that queries get too little attention. In an ideal world the query would be read carefully, and the sample pages considered with one's best attention. The reality is that the volume of work leads to some skimming and rapid decisions and we are human and make mistakes like everyone else. And sometimes we're too busy, or we simply prefer some other project at that particular time.

It might help to think of literary agents like browsers in a bookstore. When you go into the store to buy a couple of books, you're not making a value judgement about all the books you didn't select. Therefore, if you are confident in your query and your writing you should not get discouraging by a rejection or twenty. It's only when nobody is plucking your book from the shelf that maybe something is wrong with either your writing or your presentation.
QFT from the Veritas agency thread.
 
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JanetReid

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So, who do you think answers the phone when you call? It's not my assistants any more. It's me. Why? My assistants gets paid, and I'm not paying either one of them to talk to queriers on the phone. So you get me. And if you're calling about any of the 10 other agents who work here, I don't have a clue if they have your query, read your query, answered your query, threw up on your query, used your query to roll a smoke, or any of the other one zillion things you've thought up as to why your query wasn't answered.

If you left a message on my voice mail, I deleted it once I realized you were not someone I would be calling back.

I try very very hard to stay in touch with the people who've sent me full manuscripts but even at that I had to send an "oh my gosh, I dropped the ball on this" email to someone who sent me a proposal in March. (She'd signed with someone else and was on submission by the time I got back to her--my loss!)

The industry standard used to be three months on a full. I'm running six right now just cause there's so much more to do, and blocks of reading time are harder to find.

If you don't hear back at all, I really like the idea suggested above of WRITING a real letter with a return postcard enclosed.

Please don't call me. Please.
 

Unimportant

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If you don't hear back at all, I really like the idea suggested above of WRITING a real letter with a return postcard enclosed.
Thanks, JReid. That sounds like an eminently sensible solution, and it's good to hear it from the (lovely, obviously pure-bred, probably national-champion-winning) horse's mouth, so to speak.

Foreign stamps and such can be a pain in the arse for overseas writers to arrange, so it may not be the ideal solution for international authors who are querying US agents, but then again, those authors aren't likely to be making international phone calls to chase up agents, either.
 

Satsya

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So it would probably be all right for me to send a physical letter to the agency in January, provided nothing's changed? If that's the case, I'll do it.
 

Denise Scoubidou

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Ignoring someone is the modern (rude, inconsiderate) way of answering whatever question was asked with a "no."
 

Satsya

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A small update. First, I’ll be sending a written note within a couple of weeks, the six month mark. No response yet – though after what Ms. Reid said and the silence, I’ve been hoping they just deleted the phone message and forgot about it.

Secondly, I’ve started querying again and am wondering what to say if an agent asks about an exclusive. Do I have a full out with this absentee agent? I honestly don’t know.

One additional piece of information I should have mentioned earlier: on their agency website they note that if a query does not get a response in six months, to resubmit the query. A stance like that makes it seem unlikely to me that this agency supports no-response rejections.

In any case, I’d like to get this sorted out.
 

Satsya

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Small question (I'm not sure whether I should make a new thread for this): I'm unsure what is meant by postcard. What should I use in place of the SASE?

I'm sending the letter via a standard business (10.5 cm x 24.1 cm) envelope. I've been told there's such a thing as a plain business postcard, but I can't seem to find one (checked at post office, online, Staples). Should I use a picture postcard meant for tourists? A small (less than standard size) envelope? Or fold up another standard-sized envelope?
 

Old Hack

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You could use a card index card instead, if you want a plain card. But I don't see a problem in using one with a picture on it.
 

Chris P

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You could use a card index card instead, if you want a plain card. But I don't see a problem in using one with a picture on it.

Depends on the picture. Hee hee. Oh, the possibilities . . .
 

Satsya

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Well, I'll skip the one I saw yesterday with a line of bare baby bottoms... but a nice landscape will probably do. Thanks for the help!