Simple things that a lot of Fantasy Writers get wrong in their books....

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Mr Flibble

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I know that whenever I watch movies with animals in them, I'm always worrying about the critter--what might happen to it, whether it will survive. I suspect that's intentional. Most directors will take the Alien route--make the protagonist sympathetic by having him or her save the animal, or if said critter dies, it is at least for a carefully calculated reason.

Possibly why there's a quite well known scriptwriters book called 'Save the Cat*'? (It's good for authors too, about structure etc) ETA: yup, that's exactly why he called the book Save the Cat, because of Ripley



*The save the cat moment is where you show your protag's sympathetic side, even if he's not that sympathetic.
 
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bearilou

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I know that whenever I watch movies with animals in them, I'm always worrying about the critter--what might happen to it, whether it will survive.

God, me too. It will wreck the rest of the movie for me.

I did not really like the movie Signs and didn't really like Mel Gibson's character at all. Why? Because he was so indifferent to his dogs.

<snip>
And I wouldn't have left the other dog chained out back if the aliens were coming (and I somehow doubt the kids would have allowed him to forget either). Of course, my dogs wouldn't be chained out back in the first place.

So glad I haven't broken down to watch it, then. I wouldn't get through it, worrying for the dog.
 

ECathers

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It's hard to say what we'll actually do until faced with a similar choice.

Having jumped into a corral with three pissed off, protective, stampeding 500-700 lb yaks to pull my dogs out, I can pretty much say I'd go back for the cat. Granted it was a stupid move and I could have died.
 

bearilou

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It's hard to say what we'll actually do until faced with a similar choice.

Having jumped into a corral with three pissed off, protective, stampeding 500-700 lb yaks to pull my dogs out, I can pretty much say I'd go back for the cat. Granted it was a stupid move and I could have died.

Stampeding Yaks is the name of my new band.
 

Roxxsmom

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Stampeding Yaks is the name of my new band.

Yaks, wow!

My kelpie is afraid of sheep, so I really, really hope he would never enter a corral filled with yaks. Because I'd probably go back for him too :p

But it is hard to say for sure what a particular person may do in terms of heroics (stupid or otherwise) when the adrenaline is pumping. I suspect most people are capable of freezing or capable of acts of impulsive bravery, and it may all be down to the way the chips fell that day.

God, me too. It will wreck the rest of the movie for me.


So glad I haven't broken down to watch it, then. I wouldn't get through it, worrying for the dog.

Yeah, I have a dog in my novel. She's mostly there for a little comic relief and to add some dimension to a couple of my characters, though she does find my protagonist's battered, unconscious body early on in the story. Some readers have commented they want to see more of the dog later in the story, want to see her do something heroic. But I can't think of a way to write her into the combat scenes without getting her or one of my other characters killed (when he or she tries to save the dog and forgets to duck). She's a border collie type dog, not a mastiff or war dog.

I don't want to do that thing where you use a cute little animal that could die at any moment to insert tension into scenes or raise the stakes.
 
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ECathers

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Yaks, wow!

My kelpie is afraid of sheep, so I really, really hope he would never enter a corral filled with yaks. Because I'd probably go back for him too :p

But it is hard to say for sure what a particular person may do in terms of heroics (stupid or otherwise) when the adrenaline is pumping. I suspect most people are capable of freezing or capable of acts of impulsive bravery, and it may all be down to the way the chips fell that day.



Yeah, I have a dog in my novel. She's mostly there for a little comic relief and to add some dimension to a couple of my characters, though she does find my protagonist's battered, unconscious body early on in the story. Some readers have commented they want to see more of the dog later in the story, want to see her do something heroic. But I can't think of a way to write her into the combat scenes without getting her or one of my other characters killed (when he or she tries to save the dog and forgets to duck). She's a border collie type dog, not a mastiff or war dog.

I don't want to do that thing where you use a cute little animal that could die at any moment to insert tension into scenes or raise the stakes.

You'd be amazed what even a "little" dog can or will do in a dangerous situation, and how much their pack mentality will lead them.

In my case the yaks had broken their corral and gone on walkabout and in between finding them again, we got a new dog. When they new dog met the yaks, she decided they were/scary evil. She slipped under the fence and started a fight and the other two raced to her rescue. One of them, locked inside, busted the door handle to get out.

Of the three, the most bad-ass of them was also the smallest, a 42 lb bitch who latched onto the lead-yak's ear and hung on like a furry earring for a loooong time. (The other two dogs are only about 65 lbs each.)
Much blood and much freaking on my part, but fortunately little lasting harm for any of the critters. Bushi, my little warrior queen, ended up with a hematoma and needed a bit of vet care but was otherwise fine and the other two dogs were unscathed.

So possible for your heroine's dog to kick butt even if she's small? Sure. Also does she need to be involved in a battle? There are plenty of other things a dog can do to be heroic. Think, "Mommy, Timmy fell in the well!" or have her nip a horse's ankles and make them rear (something rather natural to a herding dog) or warn the characters of a rattlesnake, surrounding enemies or other trouble.
 

benbenberi

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Dogs in battle -- probably not a good idea if the dog isn't trained/equipped for it.

Prince Rupert of the Rhine, dashing Cavalier general of the Civil War, was famous for his big white poodle, Boy, who used to ride around behind his saddle. Boy was a hunting dog/pet, however, not a war dog. Rupert tied him up in camp when a battle was on. At the battle of Marston Moor, however, Boy got loose and ran into the battle, where he was killed. The Roundheads (who claimed that the dog was their enemy's Satanic familiar) rejoiced. Nothing like a sore winner!
 

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You'd be amazed what even a "little" dog can or will do in a dangerous situation, and how much their pack mentality will lead them.

<snip>There are plenty of other things a dog can do to be heroic. Think, "Mommy, Timmy fell in the well!" or have her nip a horse's ankles and make them rear (something rather natural to a herding dog) or warn the characters of a rattlesnake, surrounding enemies or other trouble.

Especially border collies. (Not that other breeds aren't smart/heroic.) We're border collie people, though, and they're crazy smart and crazy protective. One of our female border collies killed a german shepherd for wandering into our yard. That same dog had my uncle (a BIG guy who works as a bodyguard to the stars) on his back with his neck in her mouth when he came into the house while everyone was sleeping. Little dogs can be ferocious when their families are threatened.

But I also agree with the heroism does not equal war bit. Same dog as above was like Nana in Peter Pan with my little brother. During a b-day party lil bro got out and tried to wander down to the road and the dog, Bandit, pulled him by his diaper back up to the front door. (Thus cementing border collies as the only dogs we'll probably ever have.)
 

Reziac

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Heh, Labs I've sold to various folks have retrieved kids from where they didn't belong multiple times (two familes reported this) and a 3rd rescued a baby from drowning. Mine notice when a neighboring house (here meaning a quarter mile away) is vacant, and keep watch on it. I've had one who could open any door that didn't lock with a key. And that's just for starters!

But dogs in fantasy (or other genres) are a point of irk for me... I'm a pro dog trainer with over 40 years and some 2500 dogs worth of experience, and the number of times I've seen realistic dogs in fiction, I can count on one hand ... and that's even knowing the weird shit dogs can and will do that most people never see.

If it's not intended to be realistic, fine, it can do what it want. But that's not usually the intent.

I'm probably repeating myself, having entirely forgotten what else I've posted in this thread. :)
 

Roxxsmom

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I have background in dog training too (not a pro, but I compete with mine in agility and read a lot about dog and animal behavior in general). It's one reason I've decided to have my dog be just a normal dog. Her human can touch minds with her, but their empathic link yields obsessive border collie stuff like, "time to work," or "throw the toy" or "Hey, it's the thing!" I didn't make her have any special depths of wisdom or prescience. I have one scene where her "owner" refuses to bring her along to a party because she always tries to "herd" people when they're dancing, and "hill collie" nips hurt.

I don't doubt that the dog might jump into a fight and try to defend her mistress or do something useful. I just doubt she'd necessarily survive.
 

Reziac

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It's one reason I've decided to have my dog be just a normal dog. Her human can touch minds with her, but their empathic link yields obsessive border collie stuff like, "time to work," or "throw the toy" or "Hey, it's the thing!"

Heh, now I'm wondering what happens when her human gets a good dose of, say, obsession with sheep. :D

[And the Labs are thinking, what right-minded person wouldn't want a dip in the duck pond... oh, the ice? Didn't notice.]
 
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Heh, Labs I've sold to various folks have retrieved kids from where they didn't belong multiple times (two familes reported this) and a 3rd rescued a baby from drowning. Mine notice when a neighboring house (here meaning a quarter mile away) is vacant, and keep watch on it. I've had one who could open any door that didn't lock with a key. And that's just for starters!

But dogs in fantasy (or other genres) are a point of irk for me... I'm a pro dog trainer with over 40 years and some 2500 dogs worth of experience, and the number of times I've seen realistic dogs in fiction, I can count on one hand ... and that's even knowing the weird shit dogs can and will do that most people never see.

If it's not intended to be realistic, fine, it can do what it want. But that's not usually the intent.

I'm probably repeating myself, having entirely forgotten what else I've posted in this thread. :)


I've always been curious about misrepresentation of dogs in fantasy. Are there any really good examples in published works that come to mind?
 

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I've always been curious about misrepresentation of dogs in fantasy. Are there any really good examples in published works that come to mind?

I dunno offhand, they probably hit the wall before the title registered in my brain :) Who's that mystery writer who does a dog schtick? she's a fine bad example.
 

ECathers

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I'd also love a list of some well done books that include dogs.

Love border collies, but they're so high maintenance that I decided they weren't a great fit for my family: "Throw the ball...throw the ball...throw the ball..."

German Shepherds are another fav. Grew up with a few and they were awesome dogs.

Almost bought a T'sang Kyi Tibetan Mastiff, but decided there were too many puppies being born in the world and I'd rather get a rescue.

But my true love (now that I am owned by three) is pits. My babies are a pit-boxer, a pit-something small-and-herding and a pit-Dane. They don't call these sweeties Nanny-dogs for nothing.
 

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I've always been curious about misrepresentation of dogs in fantasy. Are there any really good examples in published works that come to mind?

There really aren't a lot of dogs in fantasy novels, at least not the classic "other world" ones.

Kate Elliot had some war dogs in The Prince of Dogs. Robin Hobb had a dog or two in Assassin's Apprentice.

There are some dogs in urban an contemporary fantasy, I think. I've been old a book called Iron Druid has a dog in it. Haven't read it yet.

Mostly, it seems, fantasy writers prefer wolves when they're injecting canines into their plots. Wolves, whether intelligent or not, are often portrayed unrealistically in terms of what has been learned about their social systems in the past 20 years or so.

Still, it's a nice change from when the unrealistic portrayal of wolves revolved around making them "evil" creatures that hunted and attacked humans at every opportunity. That's something fantasy writers often got "wrong." There are actually very, very few documented instances in human history of wolves attacking humans under ordinary situations, yet so many fantasy stories and games have the intrepid party of adventurers being attacked by a pack of wolves at some point.
 

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Oh, no! One of my books has the party being attacked by wolves. Of course, they're wolves that do the villain's bidding, so that's why they act strangely. In fact, I think I mention that their behavior is strange.
 
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There really aren't a lot of dogs in fantasy novels, at least not the classic "other world" ones.

Kate Elliot had some war dogs in The Prince of Dogs. Robin Hobb had a dog or two in Assassin's Apprentice.

There are some dogs in urban an contemporary fantasy, I think. I've been old a book called Iron Druid has a dog in it. Haven't read it yet.

Mostly, it seems, fantasy writers prefer wolves when they're injecting canines into their plots. Wolves, whether intelligent or not, are often portrayed unrealistically in terms of what has been learned about their social systems in the past 20 years or so.

Still, it's a nice change from when the unrealistic portrayal of wolves revolved around making them "evil" creatures that hunted and attacked humans at every opportunity. That's something fantasy writers often got "wrong." There are actually very, very few documented instances in human history of wolves attacking humans under ordinary situations, yet so many fantasy stories and games have the intrepid party of adventurers being attacked by a pack of wolves at some point.


I've definitely seen the wolf thing.



Honestly, considering the importance of dogs to modern humans, I'm surprised you haven't encountered more... Maybe most MCs just aren't the kind of person to have a dog around?
 

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There really aren't a lot of dogs in fantasy novels, at least not the classic "other world" ones.

Kate Elliot had some war dogs in The Prince of Dogs. Robin Hobb had a dog or two in Assassin's Apprentice.

There are some dogs in urban an contemporary fantasy, I think. I've been old a book called Iron Druid has a dog in it. Haven't read it yet.

Mostly, it seems, fantasy writers prefer wolves when they're injecting canines into their plots. Wolves, whether intelligent or not, are often portrayed unrealistically in terms of what has been learned about their social systems in the past 20 years or so.

Still, it's a nice change from when the unrealistic portrayal of wolves revolved around making them "evil" creatures that hunted and attacked humans at every opportunity. That's something fantasy writers often got "wrong." There are actually very, very few documented instances in human history of wolves attacking humans under ordinary situations, yet so many fantasy stories and games have the intrepid party of adventurers being attacked by a pack of wolves at some point.

Oberon is an Irish Wolfhound. He has a telepathic link with the druid and has a wicked sense of humour.
 

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Maybe most MCs just aren't the kind of person to have a dog around?

One of my MC's has just acquired a dog, a rat-terrier puppy that attached itself to him when he was having an adventure. He likes dogs; this one will probably continue to appear in the sidelines of the story, I think, & may potentially do one or two plot-relevant things if the story turns that way. But mostly she's just there for local color & character-detail.
 

Dave Hardy

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The second volume of Leigh Brackett's Skaith series (aptly titled The Hounds of Skaith) has a pack of mutant alien war-dogs that attach themselves to the MC, Eric John Stark. It ain't Lassie, that's for sure.
 
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