The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

astonwest · Jan 14, 2006

Maddog said:
PA bases royalties on the wholesale price, right? So if they are offering a 5% discount, that will increase the author's royalty. I'm curious to see how this plays out.

Actually, the 5% is the discount that Ingram relays to the bookstore. I don't know if we've ever seen a concrete percentage for PA to Ingram on these returnable books (though I've seen 20% bantered about). In theory, the author should receive the same 8% royalty on the (let's assume) 80% sales price. Since the only way an author would know if the store ordered direct from Ingram would be to ask the manager point-blank, I could see a huge potential for misuse on PA's part.

One would think after their recent arbitration loss, they'd be keeping perfect royalty and sales records (as required by the PA contract), but.........

shelagh · Jan 14, 2006

Christine N. said:
Yeah, it's really annoying to those of us with real, legititmate small presses. PA has annoyed the bookstores to the point that even those of us with real discounts and return policies have a hard time getting stocked. Everyone's gunshy.

legititmate? friend of a leggy bird? or a bit of titillation? or just tittle-tattle? Freudian slip?

Dawno · Jan 14, 2006

Let's not give Mac or Uncle Jim more work than necessary to clean up all the off topic posts and *ahem* snarkyness.

You know what I'm talking about. I don't mod this thread so all I can do is suggest that ya'll settle down now.

SC Harrison · Jan 14, 2006

ResearchGuy said:
Hmmm. Looks like what happened is that Ingram formed a separate company, Lightning Print, and then drew it into the company as a division and renamed it.

B&N now owns Ingram. Eventually all publishing and bookselling may be subsumed under one corporation if this goes on.

:-/

--Ken

Aha! Maybe this is why Borders (and others) seem to discourage special ordering pod titles, but Barnes & Noble does so gladly (in my experience), and seems to receive their orders quicker, as well. I imagine they make more money off them, too. Hmmm.

SC Harrison · Jan 14, 2006

shelagh said:
legititmate? friend of a leggy bird? or a bit of titillation? or just tittle-tattle? Freudian slip?

Shelagh, my brain is perverted enough without you encouraging it with breast analogies. I'll be back in a little while—I need to do some online research.

astonwest · Jan 14, 2006

As a follow-on to my earlier post, I have to wonder if the author in question will receive the royalty on the money PA still receives for an actual returned book.

(or instead, only having a portion of their original royalty taken out of their next check...)

Sheryl Nantus · Jan 14, 2006

More PAMB silliness...

from the PAMB in regards to the usefulness of bookmarks as a promotional device:

"After reading your post, I did look at a bookmark I picked up this week from the library, and it was one of Debbie Macomber's. I forget what her genre is, but she appears in a number of literary journals, etc. I think she is a fairly new author on the scene.

This bookmarker had a note at the top that said: "Dearest Friends, May 2004 be filled with gentle joys, quiet pleasures, and happy memories," followed by her signature. The background is what I assume is a doorway to a bookstore. The door is set back under a canopy and has a maildrop.

On the bottom of the marker is Debbie's name, address and web site. The rather strange thing is: there is no mention of any of her books."

Google Debbie Macomber. I dare you to. No, wait... here's a direct link to her website and the books she's written.

http://www.debbiemacomber.com/booklist.htm

I present this as an example of how PA authors tend to misinform each other about the smallest details about publishing. True, this particular author may not be interested in the romance genre but a little research goes a long way.

PA folks, you can't learn from each other how to sell your book - other than how to buy copies from PA directly and run up your charge card. You can't learn from other neophytes in the writing business that are caught in the same trap as you are, unable to see how PA creates a business model based solely on YOUR ability to pay. Get your heads out of the PAMB and head over here or to any LEGITIMATE writing board and start learning about how the publishing world works. And for Gawd's sake, keep away from the gobblygook that other PA authors will attempt to spoonfeed you on the PAMB. It's been censored and pablumized by AuthorSupport to make sure that you fail in every attempt to make your book sell and keep you buying them directly from PA.

'nuff said.

TwentyFour · Jan 14, 2006

I agree with Sheryl completely. Had I done no research into the writing forums and how to publish your novel, I might be tempted, NO-I'll admit it, I may have tried PA as a resort after a few turndowns to legit publishers. It's hard to tell how many people have been recruited from the PAMB alone. Now, how many of them feel embarrassed and humiliated when they get a "tone" letter about their questions they have every right to know the answer to. It should be reported to the right authority repeatedly till something gets done.

JennaGlatzer · Jan 14, 2006

Christine N. said:
Yeah, it's really annoying to those of us with real, legititmate small presses. PA has annoyed the bookstores to the point that even those of us with real discounts and return policies have a hard time getting stocked. Everyone's gunshy.

I know it's tempting to blame everything on the world on PA-- I'd also like to blame them for global warming and JFK's assassination

-- but this one's not PA's fault. There are plenty of legitimate small presses with bookstore distribution. If a bookstore's buyer thinks a book will sell and make a profit, they'll stock it. POD books, whether through a vanity press or a nonvanity press, typically don't sell and don't make a profit for the store. Numerous factors contribute, but I'd guess that the most important ones are: 1. Even nonvanity POD-based publishers are typically less selective than commercial presses, partly because 2. agents and established authors won't submit to them because of low advances and bad distribution, meaning that most small-press POD authors are new/inexperienced authors with no following, 3. These are typically shoestring-budget presses, hence not much money spent on publicity, top editors, cover artists, etc. and no reasonable guarantee that they'll even be around in a few years, 4. They tend to be run by people with no significant experience in publishing, thus no strong idea of what sells or how to sell it, and 5. POD makes books more expensive to print on a one-on-one basis, so either the cover price must be higher or the discount must be lower than standard for the press to make money.

This is different from small presses that use offset printing and have established niches with proven track records of sales. I say this not to be a louse, but to point out that you still want to aim for publishers whose books you can already find in bookstores if your aim is to have your book land on bookstore shelves.

SeanDSchaffer · Jan 15, 2006

Bad covers; bad website; etc.....

omega12596 said:
I am so angry right now, I could spit. For all of you who are PA authors, or who are still thinking maybe you might go with them, I ask you to please look at this website:

http://laserkill.bravehost.com/

This is a book PA had entered into the Preditors and Editors Poll. This is a poll done every year for readers to vote for the best books, ezines, editors, artists, authors, etc. It is a legitimate award to win, something to be proud of, and PA has made it into a JOKE!

Take a look at that page! Is that what you want your book flaps to look like? I counted no less than SEVEN typos, not too mention miscellaneous other problems, namely the extremely poor sentence structure and writing style. Is this something you want to even be connected to? Do you want potential publishers to look at that kind of shoddy work in regards to you life's work?

What makes all of this worse is the fact that now, it's too late to do anything about it. The vote is closed, and that FARCE of a "book", if it even exists, is currently in first place in the Sci-Fi category. Oh, and just in case someone jumps in to defend this work, I can not find any book seller, NONE, where this book is even listed as a REAL BOOK, let alone for purchase. Not at Amazon, nor B&N, nor Ingrams, Bookwise, or BooksaMillion.

Please, I implore you to look at the kind of workmanship you can expect from this 'publisher', then decide whether you want them to handle something you've put your soul into.

I apologize, if this has already been mentioned here, in this thread or otherwise. I am too upset right now and I apologize if I miss posted this or broke any rules.

While we're on the subject of PA, Omega, let's talk for a moment about websites and book covers.

One problem with the PA system is that the author is required to do virtually all the marketing. They don't have a marketing team that I've ever heard of, and my book has been in their clutches for a little over two years now. People constantly forget that the writer is required to do just about everything.

Hence the bad sites are partially due to the writer and his/her overzealous acts to try to push their book. They've been told by PA that it's their job to push their books locally, so that PA can see if they're worthy of being pushed nationally.

I have seen some of the most bizarre advice given by PA itself in the marketing realm. Things that make no sense, common or otherwise, are constantly purported to be the next big marketing secret.

Many of PA's authors do not have an any experience with websites. I can tell you that's exactly what I had a problem with when I started out with them.

But before you start going after the book, try to remember how PA works when it comes not only to marketing, but also when it comes to book covers. Their standards are not exactly the best in the world for quality, let alone for taste. I've seen book covers that make the one you're complaining about, Omega, look like the best covers that ever came off the printing press.

No joke. My own book cover is probably the worst cover I have ever seen grace (maybe that was the wrong word to use here) a volume. It is horrible, and it is due in part to PublishAmerica's lack of professionalism as well as PA's lack of taste.

Finally, I've read a number of PA books and liked them. This is not to say they're all wonderful, great reads that you simply have to get. It is, however, to say that many of PA's authors take great pride in their work. Many PA authors are good at writing; they just picked a bad publisher.

My point to all this is that PA is to blame for the junk they produce, not their authors. If they had the proper standards, they might have a couple hundred authors working for them instead of, what is it now? 16,000 authors? Most of the big companies I've researched in recent months have not had that many authors in their entire existence. Yet PA has gotten this many authors in a matter of a few short years.

This should say something not about the authors, but about the publisher. It's not the authors' faults--for the most part--that they picked a bad company. Many of them did what they thought would be adequate research. Many of them read the contract before signing, but were naive in that they did not think a scam would post their contract for everyone to see it. It's an honest human error on the authors' parts.

So I wouldn't be too ready to snap at the authors whose books are 'published' through PublishAmerica. If they're on that poll, could it possibly be because someone read their book and enjoyed it?

Okay, the idea that a PA book would be at the top of the list is a bit absurd, but still, that they're on the poll at all is not necessarily so unimaginable.

SeanDSchaffer · Jan 15, 2006

BTW, I just noticed the post directly above my long one. I don't think there's a need to apologize, Omega. I've seen PA authors push their books in ways that border on illegal, because of the way that the company tells them they need to do whatever it takes to sell their book.

I mean, I feel bad about LaserKill, and my reason for it is, I'm thinking that probably the author nominated the book and continues to vote for it himself. All he would have to do is figure out a way to change his information (IP address, for example) and wallah! Instant new identity.

Plus, you mentioned that Laserkill might not be a real book. Being a PA author myself, I can tell you that PA will encourage its authors to set up websites and post their covers before the book is ever available. For instance, when I had my website, I posted the cover for Wyverinia Chronicles roughly a month before the book was even available for pre-order.

My guess is that this is the kind of thing that's going on here. An overzealous PA author is pushing his book as hard as he can, because that's what PA has told him he has to do.

shelagh · Jan 15, 2006

JennaGlatzer said:
I know it's tempting to blame everything on the world on PA-- I'd also like to blame them for global warming and JFK's assassination -- but this one's not PA's fault. There are plenty of legitimate small presses with bookstore distribution. If a bookstore's buyer thinks a book will sell and make a profit, they'll stock it. POD books, whether through a vanity press or a nonvanity press, typically don't sell and don't make a profit for the store. Numerous factors contribute, but I'd guess that the most important ones are: 1. Even nonvanity POD-based publishers are typically less selective than commercial presses, partly because 2. agents and established authors won't submit to them because of low advances and bad distribution, meaning that most small-press POD authors are new/inexperienced authors with no following, 3. These are typically shoestring-budget presses, hence not much money spent on publicity, top editors, cover artists, etc. and no reasonable guarantee that they'll even be around in a few years, 4. They tend to be run by people with no significant experience in publishing, thus no strong idea of what sells or how to sell it, and 5. POD makes books more expensive to print on a one-on-one basis, so either the cover price must be higher or the discount must be lower than standard for the press to make money.

This is different from small presses that use offset printing and have established niches with proven track records of sales. I say this not to be a louse, but to point out that you still want to aim for publishers whose books you can already find in bookstores if your aim is to have your book land on bookstore shelves.

Thanks for this Jenna! I was going to say exactly the same thing, but I knew it would have been flamed. Instead, I made a light-hearted joke to draw attention to the post, allowing people to think for themselves. It's what my book is all about -- allowing people to think for themselves.

Any reader, who makes the decision to read my book with the sole intention of finding grammatical errors, spelling mistakes and typos, might be disappointed, and choose not to read to the end in exasperation at such a "competent" piece of writing.

Jenna, you are not a louse. You are a wonderful, caring person, held in very high esteem.

D L I · Jan 15, 2006

Misconceptions.

Yes, it's me, back and calm. About a week ago one of my posts was pulled by the PA InfoCensor in less than 30 seconds. Call Guiness. What the ignorant, probably adolescent, IC didn't realize was that I was actually explaining why PA is not going to take a chance on having so many bad books returned. Instead of raising the literary bar, PA lowered the discount rate to make books returnable. When PA reads this, I'll probably get banned, but so be it. (Adolescent? Just look at the employees in the convention photos.)

Anyway, an earlier quote here said that nobody at PA reads or edits submissions for content except the book's author. This may be the case now but wasn't earlier.

The problem here is a barn full of editors with different levels of ability. I've read their "editors wanted" ads, and with so many books forced quickly through the branding chute, something has to give.

Two years ago my book was actually edited by them. I was lucky--well, almost. I had already edited the book (part of my background), but the editor changed many things from my intended presentation into old-school format, but still valid. One in particular included narrator switches turned into dialogue. At my request, the 160+ editorial changes were changed back. As I said, I was lucky.

I've read several other books of PA's with mistakes that were not fixed. Evidently these were rushed through that branding chute I mentioned and not done by the person who meticulously edited mine. Quantity now outweighs quality.

As far as my cover goes, I have no complaints. I sent a description of what I wanted, and they found a photo that was exactly the same. Maybe they went out one evening and shot it, but it was still what I wanted.

As time passed, the reality of the entire situation began to sink in. As an academic who had spent years perfecting the stories in a collection, I realized that I had hit a brick wall so hard that the pieces of me splattered in all directions.

Getting a book of short stories published is, as you all know, a bit different from publishing a novel or non-fiction book. I knew of this hindrance, so I had never even tried to publish my collection. One day I just happened to run across this "traditional" publisher who claimed to "pay" their authors. With a "what the heck" and without much checking into it, I submitted, was happy to be "accepted" for my book being offered "the chance that it deserves," but now must live with the consequences--few sales, book store snobbery, the stigma of a publisher's reputation, the unfair lumping into a pile of "authors" who are not writers.

Yes, it's my fault, so I kept my mouth shut (mostly) until I got my non-exclusive rights and re-published the book. Years ago I disliked the stigma of self-publishing, but I've come to realize that self-publishing is better than another, more damaging stigma.

I still have faith in my book. I'm proud of my little collection of short stories and satisfied with the years I put into it. It is the most meticulous, multi-leveled 84 pages I have ever written in my academic or professional career. The surface read is one thing and can easily be read as such, but the layers are another. No, I'm not trying to sell it on this post. I won't even mention the title. However, I will not give up on it. I will push it along until I'm pushing up daisies. My goal is to have it read by many. Heck, I might even send you the PDF for free if you contact me.

I hope in some way this post encourages others who have also had their dreams splattered against that brick wall. Pick up the pieces. Put them together again. Don't give up, and whatever you do, don't stop writing.

Christine N. · Jan 15, 2006

Oh dear lord, I fixed the bloody thing.

I don't blame PA, per se. I blame the glut of bad books (or not even bad books, but badly produced books) in the marketplace. Good books have to work twice as hard. Non-POD books with reasonable prices, good discounts, and a return policy. It is hard to get into bookstore, absolutely, especially for a new publisher. Not impossible, but not a breeze either.

You're right - it's not PA's fault, but they contribute to the problem by putting out poorly produced books and then sicing their authors on bookstore managers. When I talk to bookstore managers, almost the first thing they ask me is "Who's the publisher?" Their faces go white, their lips tremble. LOL (Ok, so that's an exaggeration) Then I hear the horror stories of the PA authors that continually darken their doorstep.

I apologize if I made it seem like PA was the one and only reason. They certainly don't help though.

Oh, and Nick Pacione is real enough, but I don't know about that particular book. Yikes.

D L I · Jan 15, 2006

Christine,

I do blame PA for blowing smoke up the rears of people who are not writers and giving them false hope of fame, all in the name of the almighty dollar--one dollar, that is. I also blame PA for the stagnation of my book and for all the reasons of stagnation. I detest the thought that I must endure several more years of a contract. Yes, they did a few good things, but the bad things far outweigh the good.

The brick wall is PA, and while building themselves, they stirred the mortar with a fork.

Ken Schneider · Jan 15, 2006

shelagh said:
Any reader, who makes the decision to read my book with the sole intention of finding grammatical errors, spelling mistakes and typos, might be disappointed, and choose not to read to the end in exasperation at such a "competent" piece of writing.

Grammatically sound, good spelling, and typo free books, do not make a good book, they help. They must be combined with all elements of the art and craft of writing to make a saleable, and commercially publishable piece.

Very, very few books from P.A. can say that they have all of the elements necessary to be commercially published.

Why doesn’t a grammatically correct, spelling error, and typo free book get published by commercial publishers? Because that is not enough to make a saleable book.

My P.A. book was slush for any commercial publisher. Any one else care to say the same? Humble themselves, and learn what it really takes to be published, and work toward it?

It is my opinion that, until writers understand that it takes more than just the command of the English language to write a book of publishable merit, they’ll continue to swim in the sea of rejection.

Any one who thinks they know what these combined elements are, (grammatical, and the many points of story showing, character development, plot, sub-plots and so on), may list them for the rest of us to review over at the Novel writing board.

I know some of them, but not all. I know some of the correct grammatical elements, but not all.

Just read the P.A. board to see that most don’t know either side of the writing coin.

Then asked yourselves, P.A. lurkers, "Why does P.A. print books?" Come back here and make your first post, and we’ll answer your questions.

Ken S.

D L I · Jan 15, 2006

Ken,

I agree. Perfect grammar alone does not make a good book because creative writing takes liberties anyway. I broke a lot of formal rules in my book--on purpose. That's the key--"on purpose."

However, it's been driving me nuts lately when I see "writing" spelled with two Ts and "copywrite" and "copyright" used at will. Also, I want to scream that "definitely" has no A!

Platts, I must admit, had a good point about writing well at all times--good practice, but as usual, the excuses drowned the speaker.

"Grammer don't matter" in our "writting" because our work is "copywrited," and we're "definately" going to make it big time because we're all published authors, our books are returnable and stocked in stores from sea to shining sea, and we all made down payments on new Hummers with our one-dollar advance.

Yeah, right.

Anyway, it's good to "see" you Ken!

aruna · Jan 15, 2006

Ken Schneider said:
My P.A. book was slush for any commercial publisher. Any else care to say the same? Humble themselves, and learn what it really takes to be published, and work toward it?

Ken S.

How true!
My very first novel was accpted by a good UK agent who thought it was terrific, but even then she couldn't find a publisher for it. She helped me to work on it - for five years! It was over 700 pages long at first and we whittled it down to 400. We went over everything together. Oh, I learned so much! And STILL it wasn't publishable. I was devastated at the time; but now I can only say thank God; because I've improved as a writer and I know it was not nearly as good as I thought. And that's the way it should be - we should be always growing as writers, always improving.

I am very sceptical about that slogan that so many writers hold dear: "Just believe in yourself." It's just not true; "believing in yourself" isn't enough, and the confidence we are told we should have is of no use if it means we blind ourselves to our own flaws.
What I say is: believe in your story, your vision, have confidence in that; and strive to constantly learn your craft so that the execution of your story can match that vision you hold. That takes humility. And not just if you are unpublished.

shelagh · Jan 15, 2006

D L I said:
Yes, it's me, back and calm. About a week ago one of my posts was pulled by the PA InfoCensor in less than 30 seconds. Call Guiness.

I started a thread yesterday, which was pulled immediately. I didn't understand the reason so, in my wisdom, I surreptitiously added the same information in a post at the end of another thread. Eventually, this too was removed.

Thanks to omega12596, I now understand the reason PA pulled the thread and removed the post -- they were quite right to do so.

Briana Finui edited my novel and did a brilliant job. She was very helpful, patient and professional. We worked together and produced the best possible pdf file we could from the material I presented. Therefore, I must take the blame for any shortcomings.

The same is true of the bookcover. The Cover Designer, Michelle Bragg, and I worked together to produce a cover that has received numerous compliments and much praise.

Ken, you are right. Good storytellers are few and far between. Time will tell if you or I will ever become recognised storytellers!

Shelagh

Susan Gable · Jan 15, 2006

Sheryl Nantus said:
from the PAMB in regards to the usefulness of bookmarks as a promotional device:

"After reading your post, I did look at a bookmark I picked up this week from the library, and it was one of Debbie Macomber's. I forget what her genre is, but she appears in a number of literary journals, etc. I think she is a fairly new author on the scene.

This bookmarker had a note at the top that said: "Dearest Friends, May 2004 be filled with gentle joys, quiet pleasures, and happy memories," followed by her signature. The background is what I assume is a doorway to a bookstore. The door is set back under a canopy and has a maildrop.

On the bottom of the marker is Debbie's name, address and web site. The rather strange thing is: there is no mention of any of her books."

Google Debbie Macomber. I dare you to. No, wait... here's a direct link to her website and the books she's written.

http://www.debbiemacomber.com/booklist.htm

I present this as an example of how PA authors tend to misinform each other about the smallest details about publishing. True, this particular author may not be interested in the romance genre but a little research goes a long way.

.

O.M.G. Okay, PAers, here's why Debbie Macomber's bookmark is a very effective PR tool for her - because she mails it out to a gajillion people who already LOVE and BUY her books! Debbie loves to send her loyal fans "presents." She's sent out calendars and all sorts of things. She's also built up her sales by sending fun PR things to the booksellers.

She's in no way a new author.

As a new author, here's why I like bookmarks - because it gives me something to hand to people at a booksigning when they look at me and wonder what I'm doing there. Or when I'm out and get to talking about what I do, or about my book, I can hand the bookmark to someone and it's got all the information they need to find the book later.

Yes, Sheryl, that poster needs to learn how to do some BASIC research. It would not have taken much to discover the truth about Debbie Macomber. (Who is a really sweet person, I might add.

) As you posted, lo and behold, she even has a website that is her NAME with a dot com. Wow, that must be really hard to find.

This type of lack of research is a very, very bad thing. With all the information we have out there on the web now about PA, just a small amount of EASY research should be enough to make some at least ask some QUESTIONS about PA before they sign on the line.

Susan G.

Ken Schneider · Jan 15, 2006

D L I said:
Ken,

I agree. Perfect grammar alone does not make a good book because creative writing takes liberties anyway. I broke a lot of formal rules in my book--on purpose. That's the key--"on purpose." Anyway, it's good to "see" you Ken

Yes, Danny, if you know how to break the rules, "With purpose."

That is the stinger, isn't it.

Not knowing if your writing is good, and thinking it is, tends to led to heartache, doubt, and questions, when the rejection arrives.

Commercial publisher's editors, and script-readers, know what good sound writing and storytelling looks like. That my friends is why they ask for ten pages.
They know in a short time if you can write, or not.

I first had to learn that I couldn't write that well, before I could start learning to write well.

I found the admission of this tough, but when I did buckle to the truth, I started to learn.

I can now begin to recognize/see if someone else knows what they are doing when I read their writing. I like that, because I'm learning the elements that it takes to write well.

I can thank the A.W. teachers, and some old friends for that.

P.A. is only a building block, or stepping stone if you fall flat on your face, and get up with enough passion to make your dream come true.

And Danny, I am glad you are here. I respected very few people over there. You are one of them. Please visit the novel writing board and offer your great comments and leadership to those of us who need it.

This board is for the angry, IMHO. When your P.A. anger passes, and it will, if it hasn't already, come to the board that should mean the most to all of us. Novels.

Welcome back, and stay, you're in the right place, Danny.

Ken

Christine N. · Jan 15, 2006

Well, at the very least, as someone said, it gives people a chance to peek at book titles they may not have otherwise known about.

Miss Snark, incidentally, weighed in on PA today...

PublishAmerica

A Snarkling did some surfing about Bookblaster (the email blast to agents) and turned up this:

First testimonial: "Using Bookblaster, I have just sold my first novel "Manuel Muldoon" to a publisher and I expect to see it in print in 8-10 months. I had much better success using your program than conferences, or anything I could by myself....thanks! Peary PerryQuick Google search brings this upeary's first novel, "Manuel Muldoon" will be coming out the first of 2006 and is being published by PublishAmerica of Fredricksburg, Maryland. Sounds like that $100 (or more) was well spent.What is PublishAmerica's deal? They claim not to charge fees and that they pay royalties. Do they really? Are they vaguely legitimate?

It's been awhile since I toddled over to Publish America; let's see what they are up to these days.

It's clear they've been paying attention to the trash talking about POD on the web cause every other sentence is "we don't charge you money; we pay royalties".

So, my question is, how do these guys stay in business? Clearly this is not some sort of charitable foundation.

First, they aren't quite as upfront about royalties as you'd think at first glance.

They say "we above the industry average, 8% on the first 2000 copies". Well, ok, groovy. 8% of WHAT? Percentage is meaningless unless you know what 100% is. 8% of the cover price? 8% of the net after they pay the phone bill? 8% of what?

The other thing is that there is no tiered royalty system. That's a HUGE tipoff that these books aren't sold other than by ones and twos, probably online. Big buyers like BN, Borders, WalMart etc. get books at a steep discount and royalty rates reflect that.

Second, what doesn't leap out at you is the page that says "booksellers information" cause it isn't there. These guys don't market to bookstores, and as far as I can tell they have no distribution. "Available through Ingram and Baker and Taylor" means you can ORDER the book there but no one is out there talking about your book or any other PA books to retail stores.

Third, and most interesting to me is there isn't a single NAME of a staff person, or company officer anywhere on the website. The only names are those of authors, and John Ingram, the head of INGRAM, not PA.

That means if you call them, you have no idea who to ask for. That is a HUGE tipoff to high turnover. And if there's a problem, they don't want to deal with you directly. They've got general email addresses all over the place "author support team" etc, but NO PEOPLE.

Ok, so what does all that mean? It means you can have your book printed and then you can do all your own sales and marketing. And you get to pay them for the honor of that, cause you keep less than 10% of the (I'm assuming) cover price.

So, your book is $15.00 retail
You set up the signings.
You make sure the books arrive at the store.
You do your own pr.

You sell 100 books.

You get a royalty of $120. And you get it 8 to 10 months after the work.
Hmmm.

Then I checked out their marketing page.
thankfully, I now invest in keyboard covers.
The marketing page is "buy this book" published by PA of course, "book promotion by published authors". No names listed of course. $16.95
If they have 1700 happy authors, well, there's a chunk of change if even half bought that book this year.

And then you look at the testimonials page. Here's the lead:

"I just got off the phone with my local Chapters store and they will carry my Publish America book."

Rose DesRochers, "She is like the wind"

Ok, here's a big fat clue. When the LEAD testimonial is that a bookstore will stock your book, you know there isn't a lot else good to be said.

And then here's something from "Author News"

Jodis Life Sentence
1/13/2006, 8:54:55 AM
A very big surprise on Amazon.com website for the new book Jodi's Life Sentence. One book is left in stock and more being order. The Official release date was Dec 26th. Barns and Noble will be adding her to a Event book signing in April
ok, aside from the fact that she misspelled the name of the store, and that the writing is piss poor, is that this poor person doesn't understand even the basics about Amazon.com

Everything on this website smacks of the amateur hour.

Bottom line: it's a publishing mill. If they automate enough of the work, they can make money on the 85% they gross off your work.

So, if you want a book that is about Grandma's recipes, or poems about your relationship with your cat, or something else of sentimental value and limited marketability, these guys will be glad to benefit from your work.

There you have it folks - real industry pro input. It's not just us here at AW, honest.

SC Harrison · Jan 15, 2006

Christine N. said:
There you have it folks - real industry pro input. It's not just us here at AW, honest.

Christine, no offense to either you or Miss Snark, but she seems to know even less about PA royalty details than the poor folks who are getting the checks. Her overall message is correct, but incorrect details can make someone say, "She doesn't know what she's talking about."

If Miss Snark is reading this, pleasepleaseplease don't get mad at me. Some of my writing would choke your Crapometer, so you should avoid messing with it.

Christine N. · Jan 15, 2006

SC, I think Miss Snark was making a generalized statement based on what she read on the website. You notice she didn't touch on cover price, or the '90 day' crap that PA spews come royalty time.

She knows the score. Someone ask her what she thinks of PA books as writing credentials. Actually, there are quite a few agent blogs on the 'net, easily found. Someone should take a poll. See how many give you the eye roll and the "PA is NOT a writing credit" ! line.

SC Harrison · Jan 15, 2006

Christine N. said:
SC, I think Miss Snark was making a generalized statement based on what she read on the website.

Yeah, I know. I just hate when (experienced) people quote inaccurate details, because it gives PA supporters fuel.

She also said this:

The other thing is that there is no tiered royalty system. That's a HUGE tipoff that these books aren't sold other than by ones and twos, probably online. Big buyers like BN, Borders, WalMart etc. get books at a steep discount and royalty rates reflect that.

which directly contradicts what Uncle Jim (and other published authors) have stated, which is that legitimate publishing royalties are paid based on the retail price, as opposed to net/wholesale/discount rates.

People here wonder why new authors are still choosing PA, with all of the information available on the Internet? Maybe it's because a lot of the information is flawed, or couched in informal and/or sarcastic tone, which reduces the effect this information may have.

Just food for thought. My muse is missing in action, and I'm painfully bored right now.

The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

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