Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

The YA novels I've read recently are usually 1st person POV, so internal dialog is part of the narrative. I've seen italicization and caps used to highlight a narrator's feelings (like OMG HE IS SO CUTE).

'cause you know, during those teen years, it's all about teh big dramaz.

Song Lyrics

Hi Uncle Jim,

God it's good to be able to come back here. Anyway, somebody on another group I belong to asked about song lyrics. Formatting and copyright laws. How are song lyrics formatted and even with only a line or two of a song will it infringe on copyright laws?

Song lyrics are formatted like any other poetry.

And yes, you need permission to quote them. Even one or two lines.

Providing the song isn't in the public domain. I use several traditional songs in one of my novels. Considering no one actually knows who wrote them, I think I'm okay doing that. Or am I terribly misguided?

Just be very careful. Search out the songwriter or copyright owner thoroughly. I had to get permission to use three lines of Sinatra's Luck be a Lady, and even then, they wanted to charge me $50 for usage. And, they'll likely ask you the projected print-run of the publication using them. I image that is because it costs more if it appears more.

Tri

Public Domain is public domain, and you can use it at liberty.

Be very certain that the work is public domain, though.

There was sorrow, there were trans-Atlantic phone calls, there were unexpected payments for rights, when a recent book that involved retellings of traditional ballads turned out to contain a retelling of a ballad that wasn't traditional -- that was recently composed, copyright registered, and had a living author. All's well that ends well and so forth, and the author of the ballad was genuinely sweet and understanding, but things could have been very sticky indeed.

You can name check a song without getting the rights:

"He put 'Sympathy for the Devil' on the stereo, took his pants off, and did another bump."

If it's a song that's going to be familiar to a good chunk of your audience, the title is probably enough to evoke whatever you need.

and you can probably use a line or two, such as:

"After Laura had her skydiving accident, I understood for the first time what Justin Timberlake must have been thinking when he sang 'ain't no lie, Baby, bye-bye-bye.'"

If you're going to slide whole lyrics into the text, you're going to need the rights. But you really need to be questioning whether using two or three pages to replicate somebody else's song lyric is a good use of your space.

djf881 said:

and you can probably use a line or two, such as:

"After Laura had her skydiving accident, I understood for the first time what Justin Timberlake must have been thinking when he sang 'ain't no lie, Baby, bye-bye-bye.'"

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Actually, you can't do that without permission. US copyright laws and their enforcement are different for song lyrics than for other intellectual property.

See the second letter and its response on Neil Gaiman's blog for one very successful, very savvy writer's experience with this.

IceCreamEmpress said:

Actually, you can't do that without permission. US copyright laws and their enforcement are different for song lyrics than for other intellectual property.

See the second letter and its response on Neil Gaiman's blog for one very successful, very savvy writer's experience with this.

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Not really.

It may very well be the prerogative of publishers to pay a licensing fee to content owners for any reference to a copyrighted work, and $150 is pretty cheap to avoid a fight, but that doesn't mean that seven words from a song lyric is copyright infringement.

Gaiman did, after all, reproduce the lyric on his blog; and likely did not pay the demanded $800 to do it, nor did the rightsholder pursue him. If it were infringing in the text, it would be infringing on the blog, which Gaiman uses to promote his commercially available works.

For a writer, a don't-rock-the-boat policy among publishers might as well be the law, as far as affecting decisions about how to use this stuff. But it isn't actually the law.

I took a class in art law, where we looked at the boundary between appropriation and infringement where existing works are referenced in new works.

I remember that lifting a sample from one song and putting it into another song is an appropriation that requires compensation, but quoting a song lyric isn't really the same thing. It's more a reference than a derivative work, and it likely falls outside the rightsholder's control.

You have to understand this is a political issue; content owners have a strong pecuniary interest in an expansive view of copyright, and since publishers are content owners, they have little interest in advocating a different construction of copyright.

Authors and other artists have an interest in protecting and exploiting their own copyrights, but at the same time, to the extent that other media represent a significant part of the world and culture an artist may be depicting or commenting upon, restrictions on use of or reference to mass culture tends to dampen speech and art.

Unfortunately, content aggregation is prevailing at the expense of art; all of modern culture is owned, and nothing lapses into the public domain anymore.

Content owners would demand a royalty payment for people singing in the shower if they could figure out how to collect it. Just because they say you owe them money for use of the phrase "We'll be making love" doesn't mean it's true.

djf881 said:

It may very well be the prerogative of publishers to pay a licensing fee to content owners for any reference to a copyrighted work, and $150 is pretty cheap to avoid a fight, but that doesn't mean that seven words from a song lyric is copyright infringement.

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You may very well be right in your interpretation of the law; I am not a lawyer myself.

But I am a writer, and the state of play currently is that no publisher in the US will back you up on it--they will insist that you either pay whatever is asked for permissions on song lyrics, or that you edit them out.

Which was what I meant by "enforcement", though obviously that was a poor choice of word when what I really meant was industry practice.

Translations of song liyrics

Hey all,

I would like to ask a question related to the use of song lyrics and the legal stuff associated with this practice.

What is permissible and what is not permissible with regards to translated song lyrics?

To explain: my book contains samples of Hindi songs which I (and I alone, though I would think that the translations are fairly common) have translated. Would I still need to contact the copyright owner/s?

Thanks,

Seif, that's a question to ask your editor.

Your book probably won't stand or fall on one or two lines.

I've been workin on the railroad

Uncle Jim,

While we're on the subject of songs in stories, I've got another question about that. My MC sings a few verses of I've Been Workin' On the Railroad. In my search to find the creator, I've only been able to find out that it is an American Folk Song. Do I need to continue my search to find the creator to ask for permission? Or is just so popular and mainstreamed and become a part of our daily lives, of sorts, do I keep it in and not worry about it?

Calliopenjo said:

Uncle Jim,

While we're on the subject of songs in stories, I've got another question about that. My MC sings a few verses of I've Been Workin' On the Railroad. In my search to find the creator, I've only been able to find out that it is an American Folk Song. Do I need to continue my search to find the creator to ask for permission? Or is just so popular and mainstreamed and become a part of our daily lives, of sorts, do I keep it in and not worry about it?

Click to expand...

Copyright is a limited commercial monopoly. After a period, the copyright lapses and the content moves into the public domain. Recently, extensions of the copyright period have prevented anything from entering the public domain, but copyright extends only to the 1920s.

This song is public domain and it's fine to use.

subject change (to move this thread up):
What is the purpose for agents to advertise that they are 'Actively seeking new authors' but tell you in their rejection letters, that they are too busy with their current inventory of clients.

To keep us chomping at the bit. To give motivation.
Think about it, if your manuscript is very good, an agent is going to drop everything for you (in a manner of speaking, and they are always looking for good new talent). But if your manuscript is very poor, well, what would you rather hear, "You writing style is akin to nails being raked down a chalkboard, recorded, and played back at 189 decibels in a four foot by four foot concrete bunker," or, "I apologize, Sir/Madame, but I am very busy with other clients at this time."

RJK said:

subject change (to move this thread up):
What is the purpose for agents to advertise that they are 'Actively seeking new authors' but tell you in their rejection letters, that they are too busy with their current inventory of clients.

Click to expand...

Do not engage in rejectomancy.

Anything that isn't "Yes" is "No," and all Noes are equivalent.

a no is a no, is a no, is a no. Just work harder, and be relentless in the pursuit of your dreams!

If my MS is not up to the agent's standards, I would rather know that, than be strung along with an 'if only' platitude. This is a business not grade school where we're all afraid to make johnny feel bad.

I seriously recommend that you read Slushkiller.

Back to songs for a moment:

I've seldom seen song lyrics used in a novel where the novel wouldn't have been improved by not using them.

RJK said:

If my MS is not up to the agent's standards, I would rather know that, than be strung along with an 'if only' platitude. This is a business not grade school where we're all afraid to make johnny feel bad.

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Do I sense some hostility here? An agent is not your critiquer, nor your mentor. If they don't like something they are required to do no more than say thanks but no thanks. They certainly don't have time to hold your hand and walk you through the process.

*usual disclaimer, as seen below, applies.

Newspaper Titles

Hi Uncle Jim,

When mentioning the titles of newspaper articles how are they portrayed?

A) MacArthur Clan Declares Bankruptcy
B) MacArthur Clan Declares Bankruptcy
C) "MacArthur Clan Declares Bankruptcy"
D) None of the above, and if this is case, could you give me an example?

Calliopenjo said:

Hi Uncle Jim,

When mentioning the titles of newspaper articles how are they portrayed?

A) MacArthur Clan Declares Bankruptcy
B) MacArthur Clan Declares Bankruptcy
C) "MacArthur Clan Declares Bankruptcy"
D) None of the above, and if this is case, could you give me an example?

Click to expand...

D. MacArthur Clan Declares Bankruptcy

Capitalize the first letters of all words, except articles (the, a, an), prepositions (e.g. into, in, by), and coordinating conjunctions (and, or). Regardless of part of speech, the first and last words of the headline are always capitalized.

Regardless of what you do, the copyeditor will mark the headlines to the publisher's house style. (More likely than not they'll set it in small caps.) If you can get your word processor to double-underline, that's how you indicate small caps.

Thanks Uncle Jim

And, as always, the guidelines of the publisher or agent you're submitting to trump any other advice you may get.