[Publisher] Holland House / Grey Cells Press

No, the CWA requires that authors are published by acceptable publishers - they do not accept self-published authors, authors published by vanit presses, etc.

In fact, because with kindle one essentially gets royalties from Amazon (something similar happens with music in some cases) the term is reasonable. I merely mentioned the most recent people I worked with - I have worked on books on many occasions.

It's fine though, I understand you want to share concerns.

Old Hack said:

I'm not interested in submitting to you, HH, and I want our other members to know of my concerns, so contacting you wouldn't have been appropriate.



Your primary editing experience isn't in editing books, though, so it's not relevant here. And while I'm pleased for those two people you mention, your editing is highly unlikely to be what caused them to be given those contracts: their writing was probably the issue there.



Fine, but it displays your lack of experience and understanding of trade publishing.



I'm sure they do.



The CWA requires only that its members are published crime writers. I'm not aware of it approving of publishers other than that.

Click to expand...

HollandH, I'm really not trying to take a poke at you: I'm concerned for our members, that's all. I hope you understand that. Perhaps you could look at things this way: if Holland House is an excellent publisher, and great for writers, then this thread will help illustrate that. So it could be a good thing for you in the end.

HollandH said:

No, the CWA requires that authors are published by acceptable publishers - they do not accept self-published authors, authors published by vanit presses, etc.

In fact, because with kindle one essentially gets royalties from Amazon (something similar happens with music in some cases) the term is reasonable. I merely mentioned the most recent people I worked with - I have worked on books on many occasions.

It's fine though, I understand you want to share concerns.

Click to expand...

I understand how the CWA works: it allows people to join if they're published by a press which doesn't charge them to publish. But as far as I know they don't look at new publishers and approve them, beyond that one requirement: so they will say that someone has been published by a press which has not charged them for the privilege, they're therefore not vanity published, and so they can join the CWA; but they won't say that any new publisher represents a good choice for anyone. The CWA's approval of Holland House isn't therefore an endorsement of your expertise or successful track record: all it does is let the CWA's potential members know that if they approach them with a contract from you in hand, that'll be enough to count towards their membership of the CWA.

So basically if you have not already had a crime novel published by something other than a self publishing or vanity publisher then they are useless to new-comers? For a small agency whom is attempting to rack up a reputation I find that extremely "picky" and limits their array of promising material. I guess that counts me out!

epullins said:

So basically if you have not already had a crime novel published by something other than a self publishing or vanity publisher then they are useless to new-comers? For a small agency whom is attempting to rack up a reputation I find that extremely "picky" and limits their array of promising material. I guess that counts me out!

Click to expand...

The Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers Association, as well as the Mystery Writers Association have similar requirements.

This is not unusual for an association because they have to protect their members standings as a way of distinguishing their members from the crowd.

This has not stopped small indie and self-published authors from starting their own associations, though I am not sure how much they do for their members, other than giving a name...

epullins said:

So basically if you have not already had a crime novel published by something other than a self publishing or vanity publisher then they are useless to new-comers? For a small agency whom is attempting to rack up a reputation I find that extremely "picky" and limits their array of promising material. I guess that counts me out!

Click to expand...

The CWA is an organisation for professional writers, not newcomers. It's overwhelmed with membership applications. And it's not an agency.

If you want help, as a new writer, then you're at the best place to get that help: AbsoluteWrite. If you have questions, search the various boards for answers; and if you can't find the help you need, start a thread of your own.

That is, however, off-topic for this thread, which is here to discuss Holland House and Grey Cells Press. Two publishers I would not even consider submitting to, for the various reasons already discussed here.

I notice there have been no comments since 2012. Is this what happens when concerns are unfounded? I've been working on my novel with Grey Cells Press for some months and having read the comments here I checked very carefully if they were a vanity press and became satisfied they weren't - just a small publisher trying to become established. I've found them incredibly helpful and supportive, they've issued an appropriate contract and never asked for any money from me.

Casheltown scribbler said:

I notice there have been no comments since 2012. Is this what happens when concerns are unfounded? I've been working on my novel with Grey Cells Press for some months and having read the comments here I checked very carefully if they were a vanity press and became satisfied they weren't - just a small publisher trying to become established. I've found them incredibly helpful and supportive, they've issued an appropriate contract and never asked for any money from me.

Click to expand...

I believe the main concern when this thread started wasn't so much that the publisher was a vanity press trying to steal money from you, but moreso that there was a lack of experience that suggested the publisher wouldn't last long. The concern isn't unfounded, as you'll see if you read the stickies in this section of the forum, and see how many new publishing houses go under, even the well-intentioned ones. Congratulations on your progress, and please keep us updated!

A quick check of Amazon shows three books listed, Kindle and print versions for both. The highest-selling book currently has an e-book version hovering around 250K sales rank; other books are considerably lower, in the 800,000 to 1,000,000+ sales rank range. Amazon is certainly not the only vendor around, but this shows a small catalog with relatively slow sales through one of the biggest venues around. I hope they're doing better in other venues.

I haven't checked sample texts yet.

At least, Grey Cells didn't spend its first two years publishing several hundred books across many genres, with little marketing support for any of them. These folks are going slowly and cautiously, which I'd say is one point in their favor.

I received a flat rejection by an editor with negative opinions who steered me towards editorial services.

Oh, dear. That's bad business practice at the very least. Even if there are no kickbacks involved (as there often seem to be, with connections between small-press publishers and editorial services), it can give the impression there might be.

Well my experience of Holland House has been excellent. My debut novel was published on August 1st. I had a launch day at the National Civil War Centre, as well as a launch party last week. It has been picked as one of the UK's top ten books being released in August by netgalley, and there was a good review today in The Times (the real Times not the Twickenham one). Feedback on the production has been particularly good, the cover and print quality has been highly praised. The reviews have generally been brilliant

I went through several rounds of editing and then proofing with a dedicated editor, and HH went to great lengths to get the copy correct before publication. All in all I cannot speak highly enough about my experience. They are not a vanity press or scam, just a small publisher. I have paid no money to them, and when I had the contract checked out, I was told it was 'very fair and reasonable.'

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1909374644/?tag=absowrit-21

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/arts/books/fiction/article4524636.ece