Julie, industry experts tell you how these things really work, and you--an inexperienced outsider--argue with them. Take a minute and think about that, eh?
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Why, exactly, is what I said there "nothing"? You say so when I point out that you don't know as much as the people you're arguing with, but you've never explained it.Julie Worth said:
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Julie Worth said:
I won't argue that good agents have good contacts, but they certainly don't get them just because they have a particular "sales" personality. They have good contacts because they have experience in the publishing field. I work with agents and with unagented authors. Believe me, a good agent is not just someone with a particular personality. I have had lots of inexperienced agents approach me with projects (or send me email blitzes saying, come see if there's anything you like, or fill out this survey so I know what kind of stuff you might want and all sorts of other stupid stuff that makes me wonder why they bother) and it's very, very clear that they don't know what they are doing. I am a small, niche publisher, and I'm getting this stuff--so can you imagine what it's like for the big publishers, who get bombarded by people like the woman above, who doesn't know what she's doing but thinks since she tries really hard she deserves to succeed? Agenting is not just another sales position, and my strongest advice to anyone searching for an agent is to submit ONLY to agents who have extensive experience in the publishing industry.
Julie, I think you and I will need to agree to disagree on this one. Best of luck to you with your writing projects!
Lauri
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It's a mistake to equate the selling agents do with other kinds of commercial selling. It really is not the same at all. The skills aren't necessarily transferable, and the kind of sales personality you find in a successful car salesman or real estate agent (and I agree that there is a "sales" personality that's important for these kinds of positions) is neither needed nor expected in an agent. Nevertheless, people with backgrounds in selling advertising or other commercial products sometimes set themselves up as agents, believing that sales savvy is the most important qualification, and inexperienced new writers are willing to be convinced.Julie Worth said:
- Victoria
Julie Worth said:
Julie, your main complaint against Aconite appears to be that she does not permit some of your more perplexing statements to go by unchallenged. Rather than become irritated with her, why do you not simply explain your position because, quite frankly, some of what you encourage others to do defies what I consider to be common sense. I would be interested in hearing your explanations and answers to Aconite's questions in order to better understand your position and beliefs.
I just wanted to say that this here gave me the biggest chuckle of my day. Can I steal this for my random writing-related quote generator?CaoPaux said:
I'd be honored, Nicole! Filch away. 
Successful agents think in terms of acquisitions, not sales. They (should) already know what their stable of editors wants at any given time, therefore the onus is to find a writer who can deliver, not a publisher to convince. As I've mentioned before, agented slush is what happens when an agent doesn't have what it takes to put a book into the hands of an editor who's looking for it. So what's it take: Skill? Talent? Personality? +3 Cap of Smoozing? Whatever it is, an agent needs to use it to get the job done. Period.
Ms. Barron-Brooks has yet to sell a book. To blame the industry is laughable: If she isn't offering editors what they're looking for, how is that their fault?
Presuming she has used her skills, talent, and personality to learn what the editors want, AND to form the relationships necessary to have her submissions accepted as solicited material, if what she submits is consistently unpublishable then editors will soon stop accepting her submissions as solicited. And may even stop accepting her submissions at all. (Yes, it happens. Usually with scammers and/or shotgunners, but editors won't waste their time opening material from an agent who doesn't know publishable.)
Where the problem is, only Ms. Barron-Brooks can answer.
Erm, how many agents have you met? I'm surprised you haven't declared that an agent needs to be a certain height, weight, and/or ethnicity, since that has as much bearing on placing books as personality. Heck, our resident editors have horror stories about agents who are difficult personalities to work with, yet they deal with them because they bring them publishable books.Julie Worth said:
Successful agents think in terms of acquisitions, not sales. They (should) already know what their stable of editors wants at any given time, therefore the onus is to find a writer who can deliver, not a publisher to convince. As I've mentioned before, agented slush is what happens when an agent doesn't have what it takes to put a book into the hands of an editor who's looking for it. So what's it take: Skill? Talent? Personality? +3 Cap of Smoozing? Whatever it is, an agent needs to use it to get the job done. Period.
Ms. Barron-Brooks has yet to sell a book. To blame the industry is laughable: If she isn't offering editors what they're looking for, how is that their fault?
Presuming she has used her skills, talent, and personality to learn what the editors want, AND to form the relationships necessary to have her submissions accepted as solicited material, if what she submits is consistently unpublishable then editors will soon stop accepting her submissions as solicited. And may even stop accepting her submissions at all. (Yes, it happens. Usually with scammers and/or shotgunners, but editors won't waste their time opening material from an agent who doesn't know publishable.)
Where the problem is, only Ms. Barron-Brooks can answer.
I have known successful sales professionals in the past. Not talking used car salesmen here, but highly paid members of the sales force. Although a certain personality may make some individuals well-suited to a career in sales, their profession is as much about technique and skill as is any other.
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If You Discover an Agent Isn't Reputable....
I discovered an agent that I've submitted to isn't reputable. They don't scam or anything. They just don't have relative experience and/or sales. If they reply asking for a partial, what do you say? Should you respond to them at all?
I discovered an agent that I've submitted to isn't reputable. They don't scam or anything. They just don't have relative experience and/or sales. If they reply asking for a partial, what do you say? Should you respond to them at all?
johnnysannie
Banned
If you feel uncertain about their track record - which in this case appears to be non-existent - and have qualms for any reason, why bother? Just don't and move onward in the search for an experienced, reputable agent!
I wouldn't ignore someone who was kind enough to respond to a query, even if I didn't think that person was skilled enough to be the agent I am looking for. I would respond with a polite: No, thank you. Please disregard my query. I have decided to go in a different direction. Politeness doesn't cost anything.
Provrb1810meggy said:
An agent who isn't reputable is someone who scams. To me it sounds like the agent just doesn't have a track record yet. Did you look this agent up on preditors and editors? http://www.invirtuo.cc/prededitors/ Or agentquery.com and cross-reference? There are plenty of good agents who are just starting out. If, by chance, the agent does like your work, and wants to rep you, then you can ask all the questions. Then decide. I wouldn't cross him/her off your list yet, if they check out okay.
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Provrb1810meggy said:
My agent's first big sale was my novel
I'd say go with your intuition. If you feel uncomfortable, tell the agent 'no thank you' and move on. If you're willing to take a chance on an unknown, it could turn out well for you both.
Would you mind putting up the name of the agency? That might render the board better-able to offer advice.
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I landed on the is board doing my homework. One of my query letters was responded to and I had a request for a partial and a bio on myself. The person hadn't been on the list first time I had compiled my query names but nevertheless I googled the name and found the person was associated quite heavily with folks who had their hands out. One of the gentlemen here kindly pointed out that the money should go in one direction...to the author not away. I vented with my friends and critique groups but avoided replying to the letter.
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Bumping up this thread because I just read it for the first time and almost fell off my chair in amazement.
She wants multi-degreed authors!!!! OMG.
The rest of the discussion is equally amazing. An entertaining and useful read.
She wants multi-degreed authors!!!! OMG.
The rest of the discussion is equally amazing. An entertaining and useful read.
Absolutely. As we all know from the Music Man, a salesman "has to know the territory." Understanding the business is the most important part of a saleman's job. People who start an agency but don't have any background in publishing don't "know the territory."victoriastrauss said:
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Sonarbabe said:
I agree. I love to see someone who is obviously up to no good get put in there place. Makes me feel good to be on the board. So for the brave men and women who fight Writing scams....I salute you. And I too will let you get back to the post in progress.
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I just like to inject a note of reason here.Sonarbabe said:
While it IS fun to flense an obvious scammer and sockpuppet, that is not the only (or even MAJOR) purpose of this forum. The REAL purpose of this forum is to share peer-to-peer information about the publishing world.
Agents and publishers come in different shades of respectability (although these are not always clearly delineated.) In general, we have The Scammer, The Sockpuppet, The Clueless, The Newbie, and The Respectable. The problem is that recently, this board has tended to treat EVERY publisher or agent who comes here defend themselves like a scammer or sockpuppet.
This tendency has given Bewares and Background Check a hit-man reputation that it doesn't really deserve or want. We really need to give new posters the benefit of the doubt, ask polite questions, and see where it leads. Depending on how they answer, then it is time to determine how to respond.
So please, let's be polite and remember, the purpose here is the share information among ourselves and not to bash people indiscriminately.