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Old 05-21-2012, 01:35 AM   #501
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Originally Posted by Pinguicha View Post

Also, let's not talk about the whole misogynist theme going on in Twilight - but suffice to say, it's present in FSoG as well.
Not to derail, but could you tell me a site where this is discussed about Twilight. I've heard the "misogynist" theme leveled against the books quite frequently, but I've not seen arguments to support that notion. I read the books and I didn't see that theme so I'm just curious (But I don't want to derail this thread).
Thanks.
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Old 05-21-2012, 02:11 AM   #502
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It was my general opinion upon reading the books (for instance, Bella's world revolves around Edward and their relationship and she literally tries to kill herself when he leaves her... I mean, is that the message you want to give young girls?).

You can read some people's opinions in these:
http://www.popehat.com/2009/12/15/tw...ere-i-said-it/
http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slack...tell-lies.html
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Old 05-21-2012, 02:27 AM   #503
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I read both books. I didn't see that they were much alike. I liked Twlight more that Fifty Shades. Bella had strange behaviour, but she came nowhere near the MC in Fifty Shades...
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Old 05-21-2012, 02:45 AM   #504
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It was my general opinion upon reading the books (for instance, Bella's world revolves around Edward and their relationship and she literally tries to kill herself when he leaves her... I mean, is that the message you want to give young girls?).
It's not a good message, but that's reality for some girls. I knew many girls who had that mindset when I was a teen. Hell, at thirty-five I know women who still have this mindset.
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Old 05-21-2012, 02:50 AM   #505
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I read both books. I didn't see that they were much alike. I liked Twlight more that Fifty Shades. Bella had strange behaviour, but she came nowhere near the MC in Fifty Shades...
Really? I thought they were pretty much the same character... And I read FSoG before I knew it had been a Twilight fanfic.

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It's not a good message, but that's reality for some girls. I knew many girls who had that mindset when I was a teen. Hell, at thirty-five I know women who still have this mindset.
That is what's so sad about it. Hell, SMeyer probably still has the mindset and she's what? 40-something? But I digress... Suffice to say, I found both books extremely sexist in a "my world revolves around a man" sort of way.
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Old 05-21-2012, 02:53 AM   #506
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Really? I thought they were pretty much the same character... And I read FSoG before I knew it had been a Twilight fanfic.



That is what's so sad about it. Hell, SMeyer probably still has the mindset and she's what? 40-something? But I digress... Suffice to say, I found both books extremely sexist in a "my world revolves around a man" sort of way.
I didn't see them as being that much the same.

I thought Twilight was okay. The two middle books bored me to tears and I did a lot of skimming with those. Fifty Shades... Let's just say I won't get book #2.
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Old 05-21-2012, 03:00 AM   #507
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Originally Posted by Pinguicha View Post
It was my general opinion upon reading the books (for instance, Bella's world revolves around Edward and their relationship and she literally tries to kill herself when he leaves her... I mean, is that the message you want to give young girls?).

You can read some people's opinions in these:
http://www.popehat.com/2009/12/15/tw...ere-i-said-it/
http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slack...tell-lies.html

Yeah, but misogyny is a hatred of women. That Bella wants to die when Edward leaves her is simply a character trait: Dramatic, highly dependent ....

I know why a lot of people hate the books, (they weren't my favorite reads either), but it was just people calling the books misogynistic that had me confused.
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Old 05-21-2012, 03:02 AM   #508
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That is what's so sad about it. Hell, SMeyer probably still has the mindset and she's what? 40-something? But I digress... Suffice to say, I found both books extremely sexist in a "my world revolves around a man" sort of way.
Writing a character a certain way does not mean the author endorses or feels that is appropriate. She's telling a story. In that story the lead is a rather uninteresting girl who isn't anything without her boyfriend. It's just a character.
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Old 05-21-2012, 04:43 AM   #509
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Writing a character a certain way does not mean the author endorses or feels that is appropriate. She's telling a story. In that story the lead is a rather uninteresting girl who isn't anything without her boyfriend. It's just a character.

The character and the story sends a message. While obviously an author does not necessarily share the attitude of her characters, there is such a thing as a narrative POV.

Bella is entirely defined by Edward, Edward is creepy on many levels, and this is written as a romance. Of course it's possible that Meyer did this deliberately and is baffled/laughing her way to the bank at all the people who think Edward and Bella are a model of a happy romantic couple - one never knows for sure what the author really thinks unless she tells you. But whether or not you believe the author's intent is relevant, you can certainly critique the message in any book.
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Old 05-21-2012, 05:37 AM   #510
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The character and the story sends a message. While obviously an author does not necessarily share the attitude of her characters, there is such a thing as a narrative POV.

Bella is entirely defined by Edward, Edward is creepy on many levels, and this is written as a romance. Of course it's possible that Meyer did this deliberately and is baffled/laughing her way to the bank at all the people who think Edward and Bella are a model of a happy romantic couple - one never knows for sure what the author really thinks unless she tells you. But whether or not you believe the author's intent is relevant, you can certainly critique the message in any book.
Edward is a 106 year old vampire. 106 year old man would be pretty creepy, let alone a vampire. I'm not trying to defend the book. I just think it's a bit of a stretch to equate a "message" (if that's what you want to call it) of a book to the belief system of the author.

Is there another thread we could take this discussion to? I'm happy to continue it, because i don't necessarily think there are "messages" in books and I'm curious about other's views on that, but I don't want to derail this thread.
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:14 AM   #511
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If you would like to discuss Twilight, there is a thread in the Bookclub forum where it's been thoroughly dissected.
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:40 AM   #512
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Have I missed the part of the discussion about how BAD this book is, yet it is like an epidemic? I was traveling this weekend. The girl next to me was reading "Fifty Shades...." I wandered into the bookstore and someone asked about it. Three or four women helped her find it and assured her it was good, including a senior citizen.

I am 60% through the book, and having trouble getting into it because of the writing. How do I take a sex book seriously when the MC refers to her nether regions as "down there?" That is not sexy.

All the murmuring and clambering is making me insane.
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Old 05-21-2012, 10:43 AM   #513
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I have friends in my bookclub who are reading this now, and I just feel sad that they think it's erotic and exciting. I have told them I can give them some recommendations for erotica if they would like to read more. Some are saying that they think what's even more important than the sex is the great love between Ana and Christian.

I still fail to see what is great about 50 Shades, and I admit that I have only skimmed through MotU - I don't want to pay for something I can read for free legally.
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Old 05-21-2012, 09:47 PM   #514
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I dunno. I just think it's sad that women writing in the 19th century (Austen and Eliot, for example) were creating female characters of far more spunk and, well, character, than certain women writing in the 21st century -- and garnering huge female audiences.

Are those supposedly rent chains really so shiny?

(Imagine a modern Lady Catherine de Bourgh saying that -- hell, the de Bourghs didn't believe in entailing estates away from the female line all the way back then.)
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Old 05-21-2012, 11:44 PM   #515
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Reading Fifty Shades of Grey - The After Hours With The Cast Of Snow White and the Huntsman

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Old 05-22-2012, 01:43 AM   #516
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Reading Fifty Shades of Grey - The After Hours With The Cast Of Snow White and the Huntsman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=CCiM4L0j1s8


lmao at Charlize, Chris Hemsworth and Kristin.
Wow. That was funny.
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Old 05-22-2012, 10:31 PM   #517
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I just finished reading FSoG.

When I look around the internet and read the discussions on it (as well as hearing feedback from a couple of readers), it seems the consensus is that the writing is bad.

It looks like I'm in the minority on this, but I don't think it's that bad, writing-wise. I've certainly read worse published novels. I had pretty low expectations before starting, so that might've influenced my reaction.

Regarding the writing, my only complaint is that she's pretty repetitive with her incessant use of "holy crap" (and other permutations of the phrase). Sometimes, she repeats similar descriptions too often (e.g. raising eyebrows). Other than that, she's okay. I can tell she's educated and has a fair command of the language. Could it be edited better? Sure. But horrible writing? Not in my opinion.

That said, my take on what's good writing may be pretty out of tune with the literary world. I read a book that was a National Book Award finalist last year, and I hated it. Thought it was by far the worst writing I had read amongst the 50ish books I read the last couple years. The author would have these long, overly flowery sentences that run on forever (one time I counted at least four long clauses). The pretentiousness almost drove me to puree my eyeballs in a blender.

The story is probably the part that fails me, but to be fair to E.L. James, this is just my own taste. There is too much sex, and that gets monotonous after a while. I found myself skimming through the later sex scenes. But I guess if you're reading it for the sex, then it fulfills that duty. Not much of a story arc - pretty flat there. Although I suppose there are also books 2 and 3, so maybe the plot develops more later. Book 1 is really just about the two MCs' relationship (in particular the sexual). I'm intrigued by Christian's backstory (how he acquired his sexual preferences), but probably not enough to read more.
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Old 05-22-2012, 11:08 PM   #518
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The pretentiousness almost drove me to puree my eyeballs in a blender..
Let me just say, great line! Love it! haha.
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Old 05-22-2012, 11:29 PM   #519
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I just finished reading FSoG.

When I look around the internet and read the discussions on it (as well as hearing feedback from a couple of readers), it seems the consensus is that the writing is bad.

It looks like I'm in the minority on this, but I don't think it's that bad, writing-wise. I've certainly read worse published novels. I had pretty low expectations before starting, so that might've influenced my reaction.

Regarding the writing, my only complaint is that she's pretty repetitive with her incessant use of "holy crap" (and other permutations of the phrase). Sometimes, she repeats similar descriptions too often (e.g. raising eyebrows). Other than that, she's okay. I can tell she's educated and has a fair command of the language. Could it be edited better? Sure. But horrible writing? Not in my opinion.

That said, my take on what's good writing may be pretty out of tune with the literary world. I read a book that was a National Book Award finalist last year, and I hated it. Thought it was by far the worst writing I had read amongst the 50ish books I read the last couple years. The author would have these long, overly flowery sentences that run on forever (one time I counted at least four long clauses). The pretentiousness almost drove me to puree my eyeballs in a blender.

The story is probably the part that fails me, but to be fair to E.L. James, this is just my own taste. There is too much sex, and that gets monotonous after a while. I found myself skimming through the later sex scenes. But I guess if you're reading it for the sex, then it fulfills that duty. Not much of a story arc - pretty flat there. Although I suppose there are also books 2 and 3, so maybe the plot develops more later. Book 1 is really just about the two MCs' relationship (in particular the sexual). I'm intrigued by Christian's backstory (how he acquired his sexual preferences), but probably not enough to read more.
I agree with you. I can suffer through some fairy horrendous writing if the characters and plot are interesting.

I have yet to finish the book, because I don't like the characters Anastasia or Christian AT ALL. I haven't, honestly, read the book far enough to reach a sex scene, so I can't say whether or not they're good.
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Old 05-23-2012, 12:04 AM   #520
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I have yet to finish the book, because I don't like the characters Anastasia or Christian AT ALL. I haven't, honestly, read the book far enough to reach a sex scene, so I can't say whether or not they're good.
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Old 05-23-2012, 12:09 AM   #521
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And the head of Knopf announced this morning -- according to the twitter -- that they've now sold more than ten million copies of books from the series.

ETA: Here's a link to the statement via the New York Times.
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Old 05-23-2012, 02:19 AM   #522
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Well, that does make me happy only because that means more money for Knopf to take a shot on some newer authors.
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Old 05-23-2012, 02:31 AM   #523
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Well, that does make me happy only because that means more money for Knopf to take a shot on some newer authors.
Precisely.
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Old 05-23-2012, 05:07 AM   #524
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The success of 50 Shades has created a positive halo effect for at least one author: Sylvia Day's self-pubbed book Bared To You was picked up by Berkley in a "major deal" ($500K+).

http://www.pr.com/press-release/402360

A well-deserved success!
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Old 05-23-2012, 06:04 AM   #525
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The success of 50 Shades has created a positive halo effect for at least one author: Sylvia Day's self-pubbed book Bared To You was picked up by Berkley in a "major deal" ($500K+).

http://www.pr.com/press-release/402360

A well-deserved success!
Wow, that's good. That's great. I wish her much success and many sales.
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