I'm different

[maxmordon]

Originally Posted by Maryn

max, it's good you approached, but I have to wonder if your subconscious was sold on the idea.

Baby steps still get you nearer your goal, of course. Next time, carry enough to purchase a beverage--not necessarily alcoholic, but something you'd pay for--and to leave a decent tip. If it's a fancy place, expect to pay a ridiculous amount. You're not just paying for the beverage but for the LGTB-friendly ambiance.

Maryn, glad to see progress (and curious about Kuwi's first such visit)

Yes, it's that I have usually being someone very independent when it comes to group and many, many of the LGTB crowd I have met on campus usually come off to me somewhat shallow, or at least those who are more outspoken about their orientation.

And part of me wonders, what exactly are you looking with this?

[Williebee]

Cool. Good luck with Step 2. -- Go have dinner. No pressure. Go alone. Take a book. Enjoy being in a new place with yourself.

You deserve it!

[Maxinquaye]

My first venture into a gay bar turned into a two mile long walk, around and around the block where the gay bar was located. Every time I came to the door, I hurried my steps past it until the level of ridiculousness was outmatched by my growing fatigue.

Everyone's first visit to a gay bar is special. Sometimes I think it's a rite of passage. You passed on yours, since you actually went inside. Next time, bring some money to buy something, because gay-friendly bars should be patronised, because sometimes they're more than just the place where you quench your thirst. Sometimes they are the first tentative connection to a community.

[Maryn]

Good advice, Max to Max, eh?

I'm following along here because I'm gay-friendly. Alt-sex friendly, I guess is a more accurate term. Gay bars and restaurants are havens for lots of people, and I patronize them even though I'm straight, because I want them to stay in business.

Maryn, who used to lunch often at the B&D Deli--and sometimes the more distant S&M. For real!

[Maxinquaye]

Yes. One could of course snort in derision at the thought of a mere bar being some sort of conduit into a community, and some people do. I don't, because there is one thing that a bar has - anonymity.

You can step back again if you've stepped forward. In a city you'll be one of tens of thousands of faces that pass through that bar. No one is going to remember you until you become a regular. And sometimes it is good to take a step back, to build your confidence some more.

It's like growing roots. The first roots are going to be thin and frail and break easily. When they do, it can be good to disappear into the faceless crowd, and then come back at a later date.

[maxmordon]

It's a step somewhere, and I think that's the important bit. I guess is half curiosity and half trying new things. I like women, especially smart, independent and bossy women and I know Like men, and I have never given much thought what type of man I prefer. I haven't given that side of me much attention.

At the same time, I have never had sex, a romantic relationship or a date or any kind of experimentation with any other living creature, all of this is mostly theory. Though to be honest I tend to find any kind romantic signs of affection beyond hugging a bit repulsive, so I wonder if is just I'm not an emotionally overt person or is there's something else wrong with me.

[Mara]

Originally Posted by maxmordon

It's a step somewhere, and I think that's the important bit. I guess is half curiosity and half trying new things. I like women, especially smart, independent and bossy women and I know Like men, and I have never given much thought what type of man I prefer. I haven't given that side of me much attention.

At the same time, I have never had sex, a romantic relationship or a date or any kind of experimentation with any other living creature, all of this is mostly theory. Though to be honest I tend to find any kind romantic signs of affection beyond hugging a bit repulsive, so I wonder if is just I'm not an emotionally overt person or is there's something else wrong with me.

You could be asexual. If so, there's nothing wrong with it. Loads of people are asexual, and it's fine to just be comfortable with hugging.

[kuwisdelu]

Heh, when I went to a gay bar, it was in Minneapolis, we were at a conference, and I was with my Indian friends. We weren't sure when we saw the entrance, which looked less-than-inviting. We asked the bouncer what kind of place it was, since we didn't know the town any. He explained that it was a gay bar and it was a good place to start the night or end it and told us how much the cover charge was. We all looked each other a little unsure. One of my friends started saying, "Do we want to try this place? I know I'm the only gay one here..." and the bouncer started explaining "We're a very straight-friendly place..." at which point we laughed and said "I don't think that was the problem for any of us..." We were all thinking about the price of the cover charge.

It turned out to be pretty nice inside. They had a drag show that night.

I really shouldn't drink so much when I have the flu...

[maxmordon]

Originally Posted by Mara

You could be asexual. If so, there's nothing wrong with it. Loads of people are asexual, and it's fine to just be comfortable with hugging.

It's odd. I get turn on, I respond to stimulation, physical and mental, I gleefully masturbate thinking of men and women and I have been romantically interested on women before but the idea of actually being intimate with others brings thoughts of sweat and flesh and foul smells and hair in weird, unsuspecting places.

Sometimes I wonder if this is actually a manifestation of dislike of my own body or guilt about my attractions.

[backslashbaby]

Well, you can certainly go to gay bars and not end up with anybody. I usually just said (when asked or being hit on) that I was just enjoying myself having fun and was there with my friends. They did ask if I were straight, and I said yes, but I'm sure there are some good answers you could come up with if you didn't want to come right out and say.

I enjoyed all the girl-flirting, even though I made it explicit that I wasn't there for a date. I think people understand that there are various possible situations when folks go to gay bars.

[HarryHoskins]

Originally Posted by maxmordon

It's odd. I get turn on, I respond to stimulation, physical and mental, I gleefully masturbate thinking of men and women and I have been romantically interested on women before but the idea of actually being intimate with others brings thoughts of sweat and flesh and foul smells and hair in weird, unsuspecting places.

Sometimes I wonder if this is actually a manifestation of dislike of my own body or guilt about my attractions.

There was a so-so documentary on asexuality put out by the BBC this year. It was part of the How Sex Works strand on BBC three. Not super smart, but maybe interesting for you if you want to have a look see at people who identify with or are asexual.

I couldn't find a link to the actual program, but here's a linky to a comment page on program and asexuality. I'm sure the usual places on the tinternets will get you to the actual documentary that was part of the series mentioned above.

This is not to say that I'd say you are asexual, as I ain't qualified to say so. But It is interesting that you describe an aversion to intimacy. I read/saw somewhere (i forget where) a quote about love/sex being the suspension of disgust. So maybe you first got to get close to another person to fall in love and get over the initial revulsion/discomfort (be it with yourself or another human type being.).

Or maybe you should ignore me and listen to what i have to say about gaybars.

I'd suggest you find a cheaper place to go. The first moves you're popping are super -- but as your attorney I'd advise you seek out the dives rather than the classy places. Grab your confidence (and maybe a friend) and go in to a cheap place and see what happens. Better to get a little tipsy on cheap scotch and talk nonsense with some dangerous and lovely folk than sit in a piano bar sucking on a glass of tap water that cost far too many bolívares fuertes and waiting for someone to say hello.

Obviously, take my advice with all the cultural tinkerings needed. Good luck with your explorations. You sound like, whoever you find yourself to be, you are on the right path to discovery.

[The Otter]

Originally Posted by maxmordon

It's odd. I get turn on, I respond to stimulation, physical and mental, I gleefully masturbate thinking of men and women and I have been romantically interested on women before but the idea of actually being intimate with others brings thoughts of sweat and flesh and foul smells and hair in weird, unsuspecting places.

Sometimes I wonder if this is actually a manifestation of dislike of my own body or guilt about my attractions.

You might be a demisexual...which, as I understand it, is a midway point between sexuals and asexuals, wherein people can enjoy having sex, but only once they've had a long time to get comfortable with a specific individual. Otherwise, they're generally uncomfortable with or repulsed by the thought of intimacy.

But you don't have to feel the need to have a name for your sexuality, either. I sometimes think that there are as many different sexualities as there are people, and there will be many folks who fall between the usual categories.

[maxmordon]

Originally Posted by The Otter

But you don't have to feel the need to have a name for your sexuality, either. I sometimes think that there are as many different sexualities as there are people, and there will be many folks who fall between the usual categories.

At the moment, I don't feel comfortable labelling myself, it feels somewhat definitive. Not just in this but in general and its all so scary and new.

I have usually taken a rather passive position in my life, do this, do that, take this drop that. Mostly to please others and, in a certain way, I like to please others so it feels to please myself.

Does this make sense?

[Celia Cyanide]

Originally Posted by kuwisdelu

Heh, when I went to a gay bar, it was in Minneapolis, we were at a conference, and I was with my Indian friends. We weren't sure when we saw the entrance, which looked less-than-inviting. We asked the bouncer what kind of place it was, since we didn't know the town any. He explained that it was a gay bar and it was a good place to start the night or end it and told us how much the cover charge was. We all looked each other a little unsure. One of my friends started saying, "Do we want to try this place? I know I'm the only gay one here..." and the bouncer started explaining "We're a very straight-friendly place..." at which point we laughed and said "I don't think that was the problem for any of us..." We were all thinking about the price of the cover charge.

It turned out to be pretty nice inside. They had a drag show that night.

I really shouldn't drink so much when I have the flu...

Was it the Gay 90's? That place is great. But Minneapolis has lots of great gay clubs and bars. I missed that when I was in LA.

[regdog]

Originally Posted by Williebee

Cool. Good luck with Step 2. -- Go have dinner. No pressure. Go alone. Take a book. Enjoy being in a new place with yourself.

You deserve it!

+1
Yay for you, Max

[maxmordon]

The thing is that people would notice. I tend to only be at campus or at home and the few times where I venture outside my routines and comfort zone I tend to explain where I'm going and usually do some planning.

I have only gone to a regular bar once, and it was on a weekday at noon with a friend, ordered water and left in less than half an hour.

So, this is exciting in more than one way!

[Pyekett]

Originally Posted by maxmordon

Yes, it's that I have usually being someone very independent when it comes to group and many, many of the LGTB crowd I have met on campus usually come off to me somewhat shallow, or at least those who are more outspoken about their orientation.

I think that latter qualification is right on spot, Max. You will find all sorts of people in the LGTB world, just like everywhere else. Sometimes it takes a little time to find the right spot for you.

As regards the discussion of asexuality and demisexuality above, it's worth noting that there is overlap with both the heteronormative and queer worlds. One can be attracted without having to do any more than exactly what one wants to do. That's okay, and never let anyone tell you otherwise.

And part of me wonders, what exactly are you looking with this?

*grin*

You don't have to know first before you go in. You may want to sort it out, or you may want to play it by ear. Both are okay.

[kuwisdelu]

Originally Posted by maxmordon

The thing is that people would notice. I tend to only be at campus or at home and the few times where I venture outside my routines and comfort zone I tend to explain where I'm going and usually do some planning.

I have only gone to a regular bar once, and it was on a weekday at noon with a friend, ordered water and left in less than half an hour.

So, this is exciting in more than one way!

It doesn't have to be alcohol, but at least order a coke or something next time.

...but personally, I've never managed to have any fun at a bar when I've gone alone.

[maxmordon]

First of all, do you think it's possible to merge this thread within this one? I wouldn't want to have all my threads about more or less the same deal splashed around. Which is one of the reasons I have resurrected this thread instead of starting a new one.

I plan to write here updates in the future.

[MacAllister]

Merged.

[Alessandra Kelley]

Originally Posted by maxmordon

First of all, do you think it's possible to merge this thread within this one? I wouldn't want to have all my threads about more or less the same deal splashed around. Which is one of the reasons I have resurrected this thread instead of starting a new one.

I plan to write here updates in the future.

Have you contacted MacAllister?

EDIT: D'arrh! Too slow and too late.

[maxmordon]

So, it has been a couple of weird days. After going on and off in a chat for young adult gay and bi males I finally managed to be constant there but I still am hesitant to share personal data. But I feel good, I wanted to give it a go to my attraction to males and any previous attempts at doing so sadly nearly ended up in off-putting creepy older males perusing around.

Cinemax Latin America is showing Angels in America this week at midnight. I saw the first two episodes last night and I was blown away. I feel that, in many ways, it put words and ideas to things I failed to define. I specially feel related to Joe Pitt, the gay mormon. I feel numb most of the time, I feel driven away in life instead of taking choices and stances since it's too risky, since it's too defining and I don't know what to define. I know I am me, but I don't know how I am. Who I am.

Oh, and mom asked me today if I was attracted to men. I lied and told her no since I felt she said it in a rather accusing manner and she obviously doesn't know how to deal with it. She told me she had nothing against gays and she know some very smart ones, she implied being molested as a child as a cause, that she guesses families end up getting used to it, etc. It all boils down to her finding some shocking porn on my browsing history. Ever since then we use different browsers.

Too much to digest in so short time, especially with the semester starting and still recovering from a surgery.

[Filigree]

Hugs, Max. You are a gentle soul. Take your time.

Not all of us are raging sex fiends. I'm demisexual most of the time, since I learned how to shunt that energy into creativity. Having a similarly-minded and understanding partner helps.

[Ardent Kat]

Had kind of a shitty morning reading a FaceBook friend's hateful tirade of atheist evangelism (bigotry works both ways! who knew?) Then I decide to come to AW on a whim, and find happy updates from a tolerant community. So refreshing!

It's always nice to read your updates, Max. And I think it's totally reasonable to find sex and intimacy a little creepy as an abstract concept. Sex and love can be a lot more appealing when you've got a specific, compatible, lovable person in mind.

Originally Posted by backslashbaby

I think people understand that there are various possible situations when folks go to gay bars.

Yep. Our local LGBT watering hole calls itself a "queer bar" instead of "gay bar" for just this reason. It's a good place for transfolk to hang out because a transman and ciswoman couple aren't gay, but they still need a safe place to hang.

I only wish there were non-bar places to hang out. Sure, you can order a Coke instead of alcohol, but for a recovering alcoholic, a bar just isn't the place to be. And the rate of alcohol and drug abuse within the queer community is tragically high.

[maxmordon]

Thank you, Kat. Love to see you here too.

Kat has helped me dealing with some issues writing them in a private blog. Sometimes it's really helpful leaving those feelings out in the air, or the web.

Anyway, the ending of Angels in America made me cry and I still don't know why. You know? I guess it's the idea of opposition and contradiction. I mean, Joe will probably live and become another Ray Cohn, unsatisfied, unable to express his true feelings, unfree. Even it's implied his mother got freedom but not him.

Not only in sexuality, but in life in general I remember a bit of Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas:

With a bit of luck, his life was ruined forever. Always thinking that just behind some narrow door in all of his favorite bars, men in red woolen shirts are getting incredible kicks from things he'll never know.

Angels in America is in short terms, a poweful masterpiece on life, sexuality, religion, and progress and, partially, it makes me think perhaps I won't be able to do anything in my life able to be compared with it.