Question about songwriting

Happens all the time, to everyone I know who writes songs.

There are only 12 notes in the chromatic scale, and the number of pleasing combinations, though large, are not infinite. A lot of tunes flow logically from a beginning phrase, and have been "discovered" over and over. Maybe not 100% the same, but mighty close. That's one reason why there are so many lawsuits contending that a certain song has been "stolen" from another songwriter.

What makes a lot of them different is just rhythm and timing. There are songs with identical notes that you would never notice are even similar. The first six notes of the hook in "My Girl" are identical to the beginning of "Someone To Watch Over Me."

The Beatles "I'm Happy Just To Dance With You" is strikingly similar in feel and melody to Rodger's and Hart's "I Could Write A Book."

There's really no way to check, other than having an encyclopedic knowledge of popular (and classical, for that matter) music.

spamwarrior said:

Has anyone written a song and then found out that they took the tune from someone else without knowing it?

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Yes.

spamwarrior said:

What if the someone else was someone you had never even listened to?

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If the other song was ever a "hit" and/or played on the radio or TV, you'd have a hard time proving you didn't hear it.

spamwarrior said:

I ask because I want to write songs. However, many years ago, some guy asked me to improvise something on the spot. So I did. He told me that it sounded exactly like something from Backstreet Boys. Problem... I've never heard any songs by the BB.

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Do you remember the tune you came up with? It might be instructive to listen to the hits by the Backstreet Boys to see if you've ever heard any of them before, and if any of them sound like what you did. For something like this, I wouldn't go just on one person's word, I'd want to find out for myself, and if it's "questionable" whether they're really the same or similar, I'd ask disinterested third parties.

spamwarrior said:

Also, is there a way to find out if a tune is "taken"? Has already been used in a song.

Thanks!

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Yeah, play it for a few knowledgeable people. Or make a hit out of it, you'll find out before long. Much more likely, if it sounds a lot like something else, someone will almost surely recognize it well before it gets recorded and becomes a hit.

It seems is a frequent worry of songwriters, but I don't think it's that big a deal. Go for it!

I wouldn't worry too much about similarities either. Almost every blues song and a lot of early rock n' roll is built on the same three or four chords.

But it certainly won't hurt to check out the work of an artist if someone says they notice a similarity. That way you'll minimize the risk of copping the main hook of some big hit that might have seeped into your subconscious via an elevator speaker years before.

Here's a thread on just this subject:
http://5090.fawm.org/forums/thread/1225/

Hadn't thought of Mick and Keith as zombies, but it sure fits...

benbradley said:

Hadn't thought of Mick and Keith as zombies

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Really? They've looked like zombies for years, especially Keith.

Actually, Rod Argent and Colin Blumstone were the Zombies, as I recall.

ChunkyC said:

I wouldn't worry too much about similarities either. Almost every blues song and a lot of early rock n' roll is built on the same three or four chords.

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Yeah - and ChunkyC, III, rtilryarms and others here know WAY more about this stuff than I do, but in fact, there are entire books of songs for beginning musicians where all the songs are based on the same four chords (D, C, G, and A for guitarists) or chord sequences (II-V-I).

I was goofing around with the chords to "Hey Joe" once (known best for the Hendrix version), and found out that the exact same chords (C-G-D-A-E), slightly reordered, make up Devo's "Gut Feeling" -- now there's an obscure segue.

As with writing, I think, it ain't the notes so much as what you put into (and onto) them.

Yeah..it's so weird how you can use the exact same melody from another song that you've never heard before.

That's a great question, one that has occurred to me before. I usually ask my husband about a riff to see if he has heard it before, and he knows a lot about rock music. If he says no, then I figure I am safe

This sequence of bass notes is present in about 130,000 pop/rock songs. C,G,A,F its all a matter of tempo, instrumentation, arpeggiation, etc. that will make a song different.