BookSurge / On-Demand Publishing, LLC

Booksurge was one of the more expensive vanity presses.

I guess Amazon bought it because B&N already had their vanity press in iUniverse and Bertelsmann had their vanity press in Xlibris.

The BXGY program is not free (is actually very expensive) and is available to people from outside Booksurge too.

Since Amazon owns Booksurge, and since listing Book X with Book Y is a matter of flipping a switch -- they could comp their own people. Folks published with Booksurge are paying plenty as it is, and I'm certain that their sales are right down there with all the rest of the vanity pack.

I know what you are saying but I do not think they would piss off their regular customers who pay US$500 a month per a title on some pairings.

I'd have to wonder how many of their regular customers pay for those pairings. I know that I've had books paired with others before, and never paid a dime.

Generally, it seems, the pairings were based on automatic counters that showed people who bought one of the books tended to buy the other. It would make sense for them to pair those books.

I have to wonder how many people actually paid that $500 and what their results were. Did they get an extra $500 worth of royalty income?

Yes they did but then they could afford to risk it.

If you want to get paired with the books that get the traffic then you gotta pay. It's not that much use being paired with a book that sells really low quantities.

James D. Macdonald said:

Booksurge was one of the more expensive vanity presses.

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...and also, apparently, one of the less desirable ones, with a dodgy reputation for quality and reliability. Maybe Amazon will change all that.

- Victoria

James D. Macdonald said:

Since Amazon owns Booksurge, and since listing Book X with Book Y is a matter of flipping a switch -- they could comp their own people. Folks published with Booksurge are paying plenty as it is, and I'm certain that their sales are right down there with all the rest of the vanity pack.

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BXGY is pricey ($1,000 for 2 weeks; $2,000 for 1 month) and they book certain titles months in advance (you provide them with a list of five or so titles you'd like yours to be paired with, in order of preference). It's lucrative for them and highly unlikely they'd be willing to give away those spots to anyone when they can charge as much as they do.

Do they actually sell that many spots?

Perhaps they're going to pair their Booksurge titles with second-string best sellers, the ones that people aren't lining up months in advance to pair with.

Do they actually sell many spots?

They do on the top titles: go to the best sellers and nearly all of them are paired under the bxyg program - the differance with a paid pairing and a random pairing is that they offer a 5% discount on the 2nd book and it is highlighted differantly - something like 'perfect partners'

For small publishers they want one month's notice minimum, $500 for one month's placement if paired with a rank below 250, and $750 for a top rank...prices as quoted as at today.

AuthorHouse is using a new marketing strategy - see below. I think I'd rather have my (POD) book marketed this way in lieu of what the other POD's are doing with the online stores. Of course, I have yet to read the fine print.

AuthorHouse has partnered with Joseph-Beth Booksellers, one of the nation's largest independent book stores, to offer you a new publishing program called Fresh Voices in Print</STRONG>. The new program is designed to help aspiring writers become published authors and have books featured in Joseph-Beth stores.
The Fresh Voices in Print Joseph-Beth Publishing Packages include: custom book design, advance copies to the author, guaranteed bookshelf placement and an in-store book signing event for every author in the program.

Bear in mind, I'm in England, but I've got to say - never heard of them.

I do however remember the deal AuthorHouse ran with Waterstones over here, and that was atrocious value. Let it be known - you pay me £750 a shot, and I'LL sell three copies of your book for you.

Elwyn, I'm going to say this as gently but as clearly as I can: You don't know enough about publishing to self-publish. You don't know how it works, and you don't know what's a good deal and what's a load of bunk. Now, you can either spend your time learning all about publishing so you know enough to be able to self-publish, or you can use that time writing your next book and learning to write better. Personally, I'd suggest the latter.

Just had a proper look at the site, and yep, it's basically the Waterstones thing again. What your money - $899 - buys you is basically:

# Five copies of your book will be stocked at the Joseph-Beth/Davis-Kidd book store nearest you
# You will have an in store book signing at your local store

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Five copies. Five. Anyone want to work out the odds of being 'encouraged' to turn up with a truckfull more, despite nobody in the place knowing you from Adam? And then the five copies of your book get put on their own 'special' shelf, which I'm going to hazard a guess will not be the first thing any customer sees when they walk in.

It's another 'Let's play at author' pitch. As Aconite said, just considering it is enough to know that you should be running like the wind from self-publishing.

Aconite - It's kind of you to try and be gentle, but quite unnecessary. I am here to learn,and have been getting quite an education. The only reason I'm considering self-publishing is because of the amount of research I did for my first book - as much research as actual writing. I surely don't want to shelve it forever.

It's interesting that the Editor in Chief at LBF Publishing self-published some of her works because, as she says, she knew normal publishers would want to change things that she didn't want changed.

For now, I am taking your advise, Aconite. I started on the second of the series a while back and quit to spend time learning about the publishing business. Now, I'll get back on the second book and keep "querying." That is, until I run out of patience.

Elwyn said:

The only reason I'm considering self-publishing is because of the amount of research I did for my first book - as much research as actual writing. I surely don't want to shelve it forever.

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You don't have to. Odds are, it can be rewritten when you've got more experience under your belt. Even if you never publish it, the research you did can be used in other books. Writers recycle like that all the time.

It's interesting that the Editor in Chief at LBF Publishing self-published some of her works because, as she says, she knew normal publishers would want to change things that she didn't want changed.

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Self-publishing is the right choice for some works and some people. If you go that route, you have to become a publishing business expert as well as a writer, and if we're honest about it, most of us authors want to write, not market, keep accounts, and so on. No matter how much I study book marketing, I am not going to know as much about it as people who do it for a living, and I'm much happier leaving it in the hands of people who know how to market my book better than I do while I write the next one.

I started on the second of the series a while back and quit to spend time learning about the publishing business. Now, I'll get back on the second book and keep "querying." That is, until I run out of patience.

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Keep learning about publishing, definitely. Knowing more helps you make good decisions. (Have you checked out the Index at the top of the page? You might be interested in reading older threads that discuss a lot of the questions you have. Be sure to check out the Novel Writing forum, if you haven't already, and its old threads, too.) I think you're on the right track by getting to work on your next book, and I wish you all the best with it. Good luck!

Elwyn said:

AuthorHouse has partnered with Joseph-Beth Booksellers, one of the nation's largest independent book stores, to offer you a new publishing program called Fresh Voices in Print</STRONG>. The new program is designed to help aspiring writers become published authors and have books featured in Joseph-Beth stores.
The Fresh Voices in Print Joseph-Beth Publishing Packages include: custom book design, advance copies to the author, guaranteed bookshelf placement and an in-store book signing event for every author in the program.

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When Barnes & Noble first bought into iUniverse, it gave store space to selected iUniverse books. The books were placed in a special display, usually in a distant part of the store, and grouped all together, regardless of genre or subject. In other words, they were displayed in a way that made it clear that these weren't "normal" books. Not surprisingly, few sales resulted, and after about a year these special displays vanished from B&N stores.

- Victoria

Elwyn said:

It's interesting that the Editor in Chief at LBF Publishing self-published some of her works because, as she says, she knew normal publishers would want to change things that she didn't want changed.

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The curmudgeon in me can't help wondering, when people say something like this, whether it's retroactive rationalization for a widely rejected manuscript.

- Victoria

I took a look at the Booksurge site - they ain't offering anything to their authors that authors cannot get themselves direct from amazon - it is the same price I quoted previously - ie 500 or 700 bucks - it is not a freebie! And Booksurge are blinking expensive!

You mean like calling the publisher YOURNAMEHERE BOOKS and using Booksurge as the printer?

What kind of distribution do you have? What's your promotion and marketing budget look like? Are you able to offer standard discounts and take returns?

What are your goals in publishing?

bubba said:

How controversial is it to have your book printed through Booksurge under the auspices of another publishing company? Would booksellers touch it?

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I'm a three-time author with a current contract with Booksurge. I also have recently started my own publishing house because I'm no longer happy with the service I've had with them. It is my understanding that they do not accept outside print jobs. Therefore, anything you put through them automatically makes them the publisher.

I have absolutely nothing against the people I've dealt with at Booksurge but if you're thinking of using them for publishing, here are a few things to keep in mind:

Distribution is sort of a touchy subject. They have a standard list that basically consists of Amazon, Booksurge's online store, Alibris and Abebooks. If you want the other four they distribute through you will pay additional fees for each distributor chosen.

Books are not returnable unless you pay a $600 per year fee. There are a few promotional items offered such as press release construction ($150.00 without distribution, $400.00 for a one-time release with distribution to 50 outlets. Additional $99.00 per distribution after the initial one.) Website is $189.00 setup and $39.00 per year. Representation at a book convention is available for prices ranging from $375.00 to $750.00. If you want to do a signing event, you're on your own. You have to do all of your own marketing, publicity and even purchase your own books for events because unless you've paid the $600.00 the bookstores won't order them because of the non-returnability clause.

There's quite a bit more but I won't go into it here. If you need to know more, contact me privately and I'll fill you in on the rest.

According to its website, Booksurge still offers publisher fulfullment services.

- Victoria

James D. Macdonald said:

Booksurge has a poor reputation and incredibly high prices. Check out The Steadfast for example. (Yeah, American Biblioverken is Booksurge under yet another of their names.)

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They’re the same, really? It doesn’t look that way to me. It looks more like they're one of the many small publishers that use booksurge to get their books out. And that explains the high price of Steadfast.


Anyway, after lulu shot itself in the foot with its latest release, I started looking around for other options, and booksurge is looking good. For instance, I noticed this book at Amazon, Beyond Future Shock. It’s a 424 page trade paperback for 12.99. That’s what lulu will charge you with no royalty, but according to booksurge, they pay 30% of the retail price. And it’s 24-hour delivery through Amazon, or 1 to 2 days at booksurge. That’s terrific compared to lulu, which generally lists as 9 days or more at Amazon, or sometime as unavailable.

[edit] I just found the booksurge book rate page, and the minimum retail price for a 424 page 6x9 book is $20.99. So that doesn't jive with the listed price of 12.99 for Beyond Future Shock.

The rate page is here.

logos1234567 said:

I took a look at the Booksurge site - they ain't offering anything to their authors that authors cannot get themselves direct from amazon - it is the same price I quoted previously - ie 500 or 700 bucks - it is not a freebie! And Booksurge are blinking expensive!

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Looking at their site, it seems that you can get published for under 100 dollars--which may include the ISBN, but it's not clear to me yet--if you can supply your text and cover to them in the correct pdf format. The smaller size paperback looks reasonably priced, and with a 40% discount to Amazon, that potentially gives you a selling price a whole lot less than going through lulu. Anyway, I'm looking into it for a book that has too much topicality to sit on it for five years.