PLOT VERSUS WORDS

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Will Lavender

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(pilot could you please just tell use what the name of the action novel is and the author? It would be so helpful for us to answer your question as to whether or not we agree with you that the words are inappropriate)

The only way I could see them being appropriate is if the author were trying to create a sardonic, smug narrator. Or if the language were self-mocking in some way, or intentionally antiquated. (Nelson DeMille is an author who does this a little -- but his MC admits to loathing pretentiousness.)

Otherwise, you're best to leave that kind of stuff out or else your readership's going to shrink to the size of a niche.
 

Esopha

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Well...guess we'll agree to disagree. Ever hear anyone use the word "sagacious" in common speech? I need to hang out with smarter folk, I reckon?

"Sagacious" is one of my pet words, actually. I find that it's easier to memorize SAT words when you adopt one for the day and use it whenever you can. :)

But other than standardized test crazed teens and high school lit teachers, I've never actually heard anyone use those words in conversation.


Plot -- There are no examples of fictional literary works with only one or the other. A mastery of both elements is essential to the execution of a good novel. A fantastic novel. A wonderful novel. A novel that is the epitome of novel-ness. You need both.
 

eqb

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Well...guess we'll agree to disagree. Ever hear anyone use the word "sagacious" in common speech? I need to hang out with smarter folk, I reckon?

Eh, if you're talking about common speech, I'll give you sagacious, but not habitual or ephemeral.

But for written works... To me, it depends entirely on the tone of the novel whether words such as sagacious or neonate sound pretentious or just right.

Getting back to the OP's question, I still say it doesn't have to be an either-or question. Something with little or no plot will bore me, but a story with hideous clunky prose will bounce me faster than a super-ball. I want both a good story and good prose.
 
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Soccer Mom

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I'm still curious as to what the name of the novel is. I'm nosy that way.

And persistent.
 

IceCreamEmpress

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If it's a medical setting, "neonate" would be an everyday word. I don't think it's used very often in colloquial English outside of the medical profession.

Oh! This brings me to the idea of terms of art. "Plot" and "story", as terms of art used by writers, have specific meanings that do not correspond exactly to either their dictionary definitions or to the everyday usage of people who are not writers/literary critics/teachers/analytic readers.

I think this might be a big part of the chaos in this thread, pilot. Professions and hobbies have their own vocabularies. Several people gave a definition of how they understood the distinctions among "story", "plot", "narrative", and "theme", and their comments were logical and well-founded based on those definitions.

Other definitions might well be useful, too, of course.
 

pilot27407

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What would you say about The Old Man and the Sea?
Masterfully worded, granted, but how about the plot?
Not by far comparable with the one in The Sun Also Rises.
 

Soccer Mom

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I'm still curious as to what the name of the novel is. I'm nosy that way.

And persistent.

I'm never going to find out the novel you were describing, am I? I went to amazon and tried a search with the keywords "neonate, sagacious, ephemeral and habitually." I got no complete matches, then again Amazon isn't 100% reliable on such things.

:e2cry:
 

Will Lavender

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I'm never going to find out the novel you were describing, am I? I went to amazon and tried a search with the keywords "neonate, sagacious, ephemeral and habitually." I got no complete matches, then again Amazon isn't 100% reliable on such things.

:e2cry:

I Googled. Nothing.
 

pilot27407

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I just wish that someone will read my opening thread and will tell me.
What’s more important; the plot or a masterfully narration.
And I do know that all great books got them both, and that’s what I should be striving for.
But would love to get some pertinent answers.
 

Cranky

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We have answered your question, pilot.

Many times.
 

Soccer Mom

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The greatest writers include both magical language and compelling stories.
Personally, I'm a sucker for a great story, but if it is told in an inept way, I won't finish it.

I think both qualities are equally important. I can read a book that lacks one or the other, but the deficiency is apparent and in the forefront of my mind the entire time.

I don't personally enjoy a book because of a single strong element--it is always the combination that makes each reading unique.
-Michelle

If I absolutely have to choose between a good story and good writing, then I'll choose the good story..

You know what wins for me? A combination of story and character. If I care about a character and want to know what happens to her, the book has me. That said, however, the same book can lose me if the writing fails.

I like great characters above both the elements suggested by the OP, but if really pushed I'd prefer a great story with bland style to all style and no substance.

I think Shakespeare masters both. For example, Henry IV part 1 has a more riveting plot than anything else written by anyone else. It's a definite page turner, and so are most of his other works. I guess that's subjective, but then I don't think a topic like this could be otherwise.

I think a good plot with weaker word choices will keep me turning pages for longer than a beautiful piece with no substance. but in the end, both will probably get the toss.


These are all from the very first page of your thread, pilot. What more would you have us say on the subject? (and these are just snips from the posts)
 

pilot27407

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Yes Cranky, most answers were 'both'.
I’m looking for personal choices between those two and for reasons.
 

Bubastes

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Well, you're not going to get them because most of us read widely across genres and time periods and feel no need or desire to choose. False dichotomies are just that -- false.
 
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