Tate Publishing

Stacy Baker said:

Check out the news on Ryan Tate's blog if you are interested in the latest info on the success of Tate Publishing's marketing efforts!

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I like that blog entry. Short on facts and long on hyperbole, with the word "incredible" used four times in five paragraphs.

It's my understanding this thread is here to help authors make educated decisions, and we want to do our part by making sure that we provide our correct information as well.

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What's the latest on Shane Hamman, Stacy? Has he submitted a manuscript to Tate yet, after you supposedly paid him an advance or a signing bonus of $20,000 two years ago?

The correct information on this, if you have it, would be most appreciated.

Queen of Swords said:

What's the latest on Shane Hamman, Stacy? Has he submitted a manuscript to Tate yet, after you supposedly paid him an advance or a signing bonus of $20,000 two years ago?

The correct information on this, if you have it, would be most appreciated.

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Crickets! Crickets! Crickets!

I found a thread which mentions Tate on another board. An author previously burned by PA was looking for a new, Christian publisher and got in contact with Tate, which sent him a contract.

The only thing wrong is that they want an author investment of nearly $4000.00 up front.

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He was doubtful, and another author responded,

You can self publish even a lot cheaper, my God!!!! I heve never heard of such a blatant rip off!!! They should pay you not the other way around.......!

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That's almost ironic, isn't it?

I read over in Ryan Tate's blog:

Last week Ingram/Spring Arbor Wholesalers, the largest wholesaler in the industry informed us that we are the fastest growing publisher by sales volume they do business with and we are currently breaking into the top ten of the highest volume selling publisher as well.

This is an incredible honor and the results of incredible effort by both Tate Publishing and our wonderful authors. A publisher should be judged by not just the quality of the product they publish, but their ability to market, promote and sell that product.

A Tate published author has always had an incredible advantage and our marketing and distribution is truly second to none. These wonderful results and honors are a blessing an continued confirmation that authors can succeed when in a partnership with Tate Publishing.

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And I say amen to that! So let's see what the numbers are from Ingram on Tate titles. Which should I look at? How about the first five books listed at the Events Calendar and at Tate Publishing in the news? I'll add in the top five sellers from Amazon while I'm at it. I haven't looked yet; I'm as eager to find out as you are.

So what are those titles?

From the Events Calendar:

The Secret in Nana's Garden
The Three Little Lasses Series
by Sandra McCone
(ISBN not found)

A Match Made in Heaven
by Jennifer Atchley
1606042955

Meet Annie
by Heather J. Scharlau- Hollis
1604621486
How to Survive (and Perhaps Thrive) on a Teacher's Salary
by Danny Kofke
1598869027

Cent-sible Homemaking
An Adventure in Frugal Living
by Jean Clark
1606040642


From News:

Pulling Weeds to Picking Stocks by The Beatty Boys
1604627875

The Whole Truth...So Help Me God by Cindy Kay Olson
1602479054

Pigskin Parables: Reflections of a Football Widow by Candee Fick
159886985X

Silent Thunder by Eric Thunander
1604627344

It All Began With Wilt by Cecil Mosenson
1606040553


From Amazon:

Pulling Weeds to Picking Stocks by The Beatty Boys
1604627875

501 Paintball Tips, Tricks, and Tactics by Dave ", Landshark", and Norman
1604627220

How to Survive (and Perhaps Thrive) on a Teacher's Salary by Danny Kofke
1598869027

The Girl in the Italian Bakery by Kenneth Tingle
1604629932

Travel Tales...: An Old Retiree, His RV, His Dog, and His Woman (Not Necessarily in Order of Preference) Hit the Road by Ken Halloran
1598864467



Okay!

A couple of duplicates, one ISBN not found, for a total of twelve titles. They range from being out for a week to a year or more.

Let's look at their numbers via Ingram. Ingram is just a dipstick, not an absolute number of sales. We're looking at one snapshot of one aspect of one portion of Tate's sales.


Yes, I do have Ingram's stock check number on speed dial.

To be continued....

A Match Made in Heaven
1606042955
On hand 85
On order 0
On backorder 0

Unadjusted demand this week 0
Adjusted demand last week 9
Sales this year 56
Sales last year 0


Meet Annie
1604621486
On hand 14
On order 60
On backorder 0

Unadjusted demand this week 0
Adjusted demand last week 0
Sales this year 275
Sales last year 0


Cent-sible Homemaking
1606040642
On hand 3
On order 1
On backorder 0

Unadjusted demand this week 0
Adjusted demand last week 0
Sales this year 0
Sales last year 0



Pulling Weeds to Picking Stocks
1604627875
On hand 183
On order 0
On backorder 0

Unadjusted demand this week 21
Adjusted demand last week 93
Sales this year 4,648
Sales last year 0


The Whole Truth...So Help Me God
1602479054
On hand 159
On order 0
On backorder 0

Unadjusted demand this week 0
Adjusted demand last week 0
Sales this year 261
Sales last year 0


Pigskin Parables
159886985X
On hand 31
On order 0
On backorder 0

Unadjusted demand this week 0
Adjusted demand last week 1
Sales this year 52
Sales last year 88


Silent Thunder
1604627344
On hand 81
On order 0
On backorder 0

Unadjusted demand this week 0
Adjusted demand last week 2
Sales this year 339
Sales last year 0

It All Began With Wilt
1606040553
On hand 0
On order 30
On backorder 1

Unadjusted demand this week 0
Adjusted demand last week 69
Sales this year 254
Sales last year 0


501 Paintball Tips, Tricks, and Tactics
1604627220
On hand 0
On order 0
On backorder 0

Unadjusted demand this week 1
Adjusted demand last week 16
Sales this year 170
Sales last year 0


How to Survive (and Perhaps Thrive) on a Teacher's Salary
1598869027
On hand 0
On order 120
On backorder 16

Unadjusted demand this week 7
Adjusted demand last week 45
Sales this year 423
Sales last year 33

The Girl in the Italian Bakery
1604629932
On hand 0
On order 0
On backorder 10

Unadjusted demand this week 19
Adjusted demand last week 68
Sales this year 542
Sales last year 0

Travel Tales...
1598864467
On hand 12
On order 0
On backorder 0

Unadjusted demand this week 12
Adjusted demand last week 11
Sales this year 140
Sales last year 342

Since Spring Arbor is owned by Ingram, do they keep a separate tally when it comes to inventory/shipping? Or are the Spring Arbor numbers included in the overall Ingram numbers?

Momento Mori said:

So I'm guessing those 10,000 copies were either straight through Spring Arbor or a combination of Spring Arbor and Ingram sales.

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Perhaps the ever-magnanimous Rush Limbaugh directed 5000+ of his listeners to Tate Publishing's online bookstore, where the young authors received 60 percent royalties on each overpriced paperback sold.

On second thought . . . nah. Probably not.

Sorry, make that 40 percent royalties for book's sold from Tate's website. I'm still trying to wrap my head around Tate's ridonk-ulously convoluted royalty scheme.

Looking on the positive side, at least most of those titles seem to have sold far more than the quantity of 75 that's usually bantered about when discussing a certain Maryland publisher...

It would be interesting to hear from some of the referenced authors, to see how many (approximately) of these sales were due to the author's direct efforts.

Tate Publishing?

I just received a contract for my book with Tate. Before I ran into this site I was reluctant about the $4000, but their marketing seemed great and worth it. Now I hear about bad editing and actual printing. Could that be true for any publisher? Or not when you're paying 4000? I'm tempted to think that if an author has to pay to get his work published, maybe he's not that good. I'm not desperate, yet. Any new thoughts?

saharalee said:

I just received a contract for my book with Tate. Before I ran into this site I was reluctant about the $4000, but their marketing seemed great and worth it. Now I hear about bad editing and actual printing. Could that be true for any publisher? Or not when you're paying 4000? I'm tempted to think that if an author has to pay to get his work published, maybe he's not that good. I'm not desperate, yet. Any new thoughts?

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Here's one: don't sign that contract and take your book elsewhere. Real publishers don't ask you for a dime. Money flows TO you, not FROM you. Look elsewhere.

saharalee said:

I'm tempted to think that if an author has to pay to get his work published, maybe he's not that good. I'm not desperate, yet. Any new thoughts?

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If an author *has* to pay to get his work published, he or she probably isn't good enough to be published -- yet. Or maybe that book just doesn't have a market. Or maybe he or she hasn't looked hard enough for a market.

The problem is that too many authors give up too soon. Maybe they just need to submit more. Or maybe they need to take a good hard look at their work, recognize its flaws, and work on improving their skills.

At any rate, paying someone else to publish your work won't get you any attention from a real, commercial publisher. You want your first book to sell your next book and so on. That won't happen with self/vanity publishing.

Writer Beware on Tate Publishing

Sahara, you need to read Writer Beware's articles about vanity publishers, POD, etc. There's also a good post on Writer Beware's blog that addresses the "If I Can Just Get it Out There" writer's myth that would be informative, too.

In most cases, the writer who chooses one of these publishers (as opposed to commercial publishers like HarperCollins, Random House, and Simon & Schuster) must pay the company to have their book printed.

POD's, vanity publishers and "self publishers" do no marketing, and their books are not carried on the shelves in bookstores, except in cases where individual authors have arranged with individual bookstore managers to carry them (often on consignment basis). Writer Beware knows of no POD "self publisher" or vanity press that has gotten any of their books national placement on bookstore shelves.

Regarding Tate Publishing...they are a Christian POD type publisher that offers three kinds of contracts to authors:

1. They report that they offer some authors both advance and royalties. Writer Beware has never heard from any author that received this kind of Tate contract.

2. Tate also offers "no advance but no payment" contracts to authors. Writer Beware has heard from one author that was offered this type of Tate contract.

3. The majority of the authors who have contacted Writer Beware after signing on with Tate were offered contracts where they were required to pay Tate $4000.00 for publishing their book.

Some authors have said very favorable things about Tate. Others have gone on record as being very unhappy.

You need to research any publisher thoroughly before submitting your work to them.

-Ann C. Crispin
Chair, Writer Beware
www.writerbeware.com

What Roger is saying is spot on.

Paying Tate (or anyone) $4000 to publish your book doesn't make you a bad author. It just makes you a naive business person. A great author could do the same thing simply because they don't know their way around the publishing industry and think they must pay to play.

Here is what I will add: If you cannot find a publisher for your book that doesn't ask for a fee and is willing to put the investment into the book under the belief that the book will pay off, it is far far far far far far better to put the book aside and *write a new book* rather than go with a pay-to-play publisher.

I'd also say its far better to go with an ebook publisher rather than pay out a large amount that you will probably never make back. Most ebook publishers have a print option and they don't cost you money.

The big thing to remember is that you don't need to hit a home run with your first book. Improve as a writer and write a better second book, and an even better third book, etc.

saharalee said:

I'm tempted to think that if an author has to pay to get his work published, maybe he's not that good.

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There are times when self-publishing makes sense--if you've written, say, a very local history that you plan to sell in tourist shops and at the local historical society. Or if you often give workshops about, say, optimizing your buggy whip performance, and you plan to sell your own "Complete Guide to Buggy Whips" workbook at the workshops and through the buggy whip enthusiasts' websites and newsletters.

So there are cases in which very good books are self-published, because the audience for those books is quite limited.

The thing is that self-publishing makes sense in those cases, but vanity publishing usually doesn't. So if you do have a limited-audience kind of book, you'd still be likely to be better off doing true self-publishing than working with a vanity publisher.

Good evening! Lots of banter today about whether to use Tate and lots of comments about Tate! We are always glad to chat! I would love to answer any questions you might have. In fact, if any author would like to visit with me regarding our outstanding marketing and distribution plan, by all means give me a call! My number is [redacted phone number. You can Google it, if you really wanna call -- MacAllister.]

Also, if you would like information regarding our latest marketing meeting in New York with our large press division buyer for Barnes and Noble, I would encourage you to check out our president's blog spot at http://tatepublishingpresident.blogspot.com/

Again, we would love to answer any questions you might have so feel free to give me a call today!

Hi Stacy.

May I ask if you're willing to answer questions here as opposed to a phone call?

Hi, Stacy, how come you keep charging writers to be published? Why don't you call yourselves a vanity press, which is what you are? For the record, I don't care if you charge one writer and pay the other ninety-nine, but we know it's worse than that. Why don't you quit and go work for a publisher that pays all their writers, which is how it is supposed to work? Is the money too good?

She's baaaaaaaaaaaaaack.

Hi, sock puppet Respond-O-Bot 9000[sup]tm[/sup], Stacy! I thought Mr. Tate said you weren't going to be posting over here any longer.

Stacy Baker said:

Good evening! Lots of banter today about whether to use Tate and lots of comments about Tate! We are always glad to chat! I would love to answer any questions you might have. In fact, if any author would like to visit with me regarding our outstanding marketing and distribution plan, by all means give me a call! My number is xxx-xxx-xxxx.

Also, if you would like information regarding our latest marketing meeting in New York with our large press division buyer for Barnes and Noble, I would encourage you to check out our president's blog spot at ???

Again, we would love to answer any questions you might have so feel free to give me a call today!

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At this point, I am honestly curious why the moderators don't delete the response and give a warning that says the next time there's a pop-in response with email/phone the user account from Tate will be banned.

It's spam, plain and simple. We delete spam around here don't we?

We also encourage editors and publishers to take part in the discussions. Stacy's responses say as much about Tate as the rest of this thread does.