Tate Publishing

Hi Emmanuele - somebody wiser and more experienced than me will probably be along in a moment to tell you this, but if you want to know who the legitimate publishers are, go to your local bricks&mortar bookshop and look at the shelves. Legitimate publishers are those that get their authors' books onto bookshop shelves.
Note down the publishers of books like yours. Go online and find those publishers' websites. Find their submission guidelines - this is another clue, because legit publishers don't make it easy to find their guidelines, and scammers do. Legit publishers make it easy to buy their books.
If any of those publishers accept unagented submissions, follow their guidelines exactly and send in your work. If they want queries only, send a query.
I think that's it.
-Barbara

Emmanuele said:

I am a new writer and have been doing some research on publishing my book. I keep coming on here looking at different posts trying to get a read on a legitimate book publishing company. I see alot of companies to stay away from but I don't see anyone recommending good ones. Is it some kind of secret once someone found a good one??? I just want to know where to start looking there are so many out there and so much to watch out for. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thank you

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This is because while there are universally bad publishers (scams, self-publishers, inexperienced, etc.), there is no such thing as a universally good publisher. It depends on what you write and what your goals are. Tor is a terrific publisher of Fantasy and SF, but if you write romance, they're not good for you.

There is no substitute for research. A good place to start is WritersMarket.com. But don't take everything there as gospel. Many of their listings are wrong. Once you get a list of publishers and agents (don't forget to look at agents), you can check out their websites, ask questions here, try to find any books published by them (Google is your friend).

Roger J Carlson said:

Tor is a terrific publisher of Fantasy and SF, but if you write romance, they're not good for you.

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Unless you write paranormal romance, since they have a paranormal romance imprint now. =) But your point is still a good one.

I had a best of the small press for SF and Fantasy, but nobody seemed interested so the thread died. This was a perspective, positive type listing. I sympathize with Emmanuele, because we have thousands of negative posts on bad/scam agents and publishers. No where do we have a list of competent ones, drafted by those who have used them and can vouch for them. I was particulary interested in the SF and Fantasy section. Even the Romance section has a good listing. And I do know we have a very long list of publishers with their URLs, but with no comments or experience listed.

Tri

I have a friend who is trying to break into the "Christian Market". Until I spoke up he said, "They have to be honest, it's a Christian publisher!"

rocketman said:

I have a friend who is trying to break into the "Christian Market". Until I spoke up he said, "They have to be honest, it's a Christian publisher!"

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This is one reason, I think, that there are so many scams and borderline schemes in the Christian market.

- Victoria

batgirl said:

. . . if you want to know who the legitimate publishers are, go to your local bricks&mortar bookshop and look at the shelves. Legitimate publishers are those that get their authors' books onto bookshop shelves.

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In my county and several surrounding rural counties, there are only small independent bookstores. Local books—many self-published, POD, or subsidy published—are on the shelves of all these bookstores.

An aspiring author browsing the shelves at these places would see books from TATE, PA, Trafford, almost any POD, etc. Plus, these aspiring authors can easily find the local authors and talk to them. The local authors (at least those who are happy with their publishers) will, of course, give glowing reports and share their publishing success story.

Regarding Tate: I recently acquired a book published by Tate. The cover was beautiful. The plot, however, had a couple of humongous gaping holes. But the book was nicely printed and bound.

There used to be a URL where one could access info about books in B&N—by typing in a title, one could tell if a book was on the shelves, not available, or available to order. Does anyone know if this URL still exists, and—if it does—what it is?

That wasn't B&N, that was Borders, and the URL is http://www.bordersstores.com/index.jsp

I live in a rural area too: the closest real bookstore is an hour away by road. The office supply store in my town also sells books, and yes, you'll find Xlibris books there (two of them, from two local guys who I happen to know).

Some PODs are reasonable choices. If you're writing a local book with local appeal, and you have access to sell locally through stores where you are known personally, and if that fits your objectives, why not?

PVish said:

In my county and several surrounding rural counties, there are only small independent bookstores. Local books—many self-published, POD, or subsidy published—are on the shelves of all these bookstores.

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Because the authors persuaded the stores to put them there. However, getting books into stores--preferably, on a national level, not just stores near the author's home--is the publisher's job. Pay-to-publish publishers don't do this (though they often encourage authors to assume they do).

- Victoria

Questions for Tate

I just asked Tate Publishing the following questions. I will post their answers when I get them.

"What percentage of the writers who publish through Tate publishing sell enough books to get their $4,000 investment back?


Of all the books you have in print, how many are best sellers?

What is the average number of books sold by people who publish though you?

What percentage of people, whose manuscripts you accept for publishing, choose to accept you as their publisher?"

Anyone who charges anything (let alone 4000$ !!!) is a vanity press. The line also that says they are the best hope for unpublished authors out there, is the second sign. I feel that whenever a publisher or agent say this, they can't be trusted. Because many many previously unpublished authors get published every year (for example, me), and they even receive advances, sometimes rather nice advances. This sort of sentence strikes at the very core of the fear of a new writer, that because they have no credentials they will never get published and so they will choose this route with Tate because they think it is their only option. It is manipulative, mean and just plain false.

Am most enjoying this email conversation, it will be interesting to see whether they ever answer your questions, which seem pretty reasonable to me!

I had been seriously considering Tate and even sent them a submission. After reading the comments on this board and doing some more research, I decided to go with iUniverse anyway, due in no small part to Tate's lackluster book descriptions and virtually no buyer feedback for their books on Amazon. I was surprised that Tate actually ended up REJECTING my submission because the novel was too long (170k words). I figured they'd print just about anything just to get the $4k, but I guess long novels aren't cost-effective for them.

On the positive side, I've had a great experience with iUniverse. Fast, professional service with good online distribution (Amazon & B&N) for about $400 - 1/10th the cost of Tate. I ended up splitting my 400 page book into two 200 page books (a little tip for any other first-time authors with long manuscripts). I found out the hard way that it's almost impossible to get an agent or publisher to even look at a manuscript over 120k words from an unpublished author - especially in the Christian Fiction genre.

Anyway, iUniverse got my book to print in about 6 weeks. I'm just jazzed to see a quality finished product from all my hard work without having to dig out of a $4k hole. Thanks to this forum for your sage advice.

Heroes Of Old
Jay Young

GunsBigGuns:
what about a book like mine which is a sure thing with the right exposure? Would TATE not do everything in their power to get my bookk on the shelf so they could also make more money in the end? Or do they just want to make a quick $4,000.00 dollars up front and be done with it

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You've answered your own question. Tate gets $4k up front. What incentive does it have to put that book on the shelves when it's already got money in the bank?

Companies like these aren't in the business of selling books to the public. They're in the business of taking money from authors with big dreams and(sometimes) giving them a physical product with a shiny cover.

If you still need convincing, think of it this way. You're paying $4k for the privilege of publication and you get 40% royalties on books sold. How many copies are you going to have to sell to get that $4k back again?

If you want to self-publish (and there are plenty of reputable self-publishing outfits like lulu), then you can do it far more cheaply. My advice however, would be to make sure you've got the best manuscript you can write and pitch it to reputable agents (and remembering that you can check back here if you come across someone you're not sure about). As was said earlier in this thread, Tate's access to big book stores and Amazon basically amounts to an ability to order from them and that's not the same thing as having books on shelves. Go to your local bookstore and see what they've got on their shelves - you will only see a Tate book (if at all) because some poor author has begged or persuaded the store to stock it and even then, I'd doubt you'd see more than one or two copies - not enough to make your advance back.

Seriously, don't waste your time, effort or cash.

GunsBigGuns said:

Okay, I'm a new author trying to get published. TATE sent me a contract and very nice letter in the mail. Mc-Graw-Hill also has my manuscipt and I am leaning towards getting an agent to speed things up with them. Obviously, they are my best bet. I think my book is going to make it BIG because I have famous people involved (for a particular sport) and it's cutting edge. But, heres my question regarding TATE PUBLISHING- I did like the comments Trinity made about my book. In other words she saw why it had potential. But, regardless of how good my book may be, how would other have access to it, when it's not going to be on the shelf. Now I realize a lot of books written are of poor quality and TATE can't be responsible for books like that if they do not make it. However, what about a book like mine which is a sure thing with the right exposure? Would TATE not do everything in their power to get my bookk on the shelf so they could also make more money in the end? Or do they just want to make a quick $4,000.00 dollars up front and be done with it? I'm a bit confused on this and hope some of you can give your opinions. I think paying $4,000.00 would be better than self publishing because it would have access to teh big book stores and be on amazon. I'm a new author, so please realize I still have a lot to learn. Thats why I am here. Please enlighten me!

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I don't think anything is a "sure thing." I suppose if McGraw-Hill agrees with you, they'll offer a contract.

In other words she saw why it had potential.

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Specifically, she saw another potential $4,000 in her checking account. If you knew you could make a quick $4,000 doing almost nothing, why would you do more? $4,000 easy money vs. a possible larger amount for a lot of hard work?

You sell the rights to publish your book through a publisher. You don't pay for it.

Anyone with an ISBN can be listed on Amazon/B&N/Walmart, etc.

The way it works is the publisher offers you $4,000.

GunsBigGuns, As a new author I've spent the past year researching the same questions you're asking. Basically, Tate publishing IS self-publishing (as the more experienced members of this forum will tell you.) There are at least 5 - 10 large self-publishing companies on the web (lulu, iUniverse, Llumina) that will do EVERYTHING Tate does (cover artwork, ISBN, listing on Amazon and B&N) for about 1/10th the cost.

Go to different self-publishing websites and look at their books, then go to Amazon and look at customer feedback. Tate does a terrible job of creating a short book synopsis and does absolutely no marketing and almost none of their books have quality feedback or sales on Amazon. I originally leaned towards Tate because I'm a Christian and I liked thier mission statement, but there are plenty of Christian authors who self-publish with other companies and have great experiences.

And like everyone says - spend at least 6 - 12 months polishing your manuscript and trying to get a quality agent so you won't have to shell out any of your own money. Best of luck to ya.

GunsBigGuns said:

However, what about a book like mine which is a sure thing with the right exposure? Would TATE not do everything in their power to get my bookk on the shelf so they could also make more money in the end?

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If your book really is as good as you think it is, a real commercial publisher will think so, too. So will an agent. Why not send it to people who have the ability to market it right? Why go with a company that can't market it? Just because they sent you a nice letter and said nice things?

I submitted to Tate not realizing they were a sulf-publisher. Guess what. They accepted my book. Sending the contract overnight. I emailed them and politely said no thanks.

I stumbled across this thread when an author on a social site I frequent said their book was out of stock and no distributor that their publisher used could get it. They indicated the book was out of print and more needed to be printed. I didn't know this author from Adam (okay, I do know a few Adams but being a newly published author myself and having to become well-versed in just what a publisher is I said, HUH? Nothing about what I read made sense.

I googled and found the publisher was Tate. I went to their site and saw that nowhere did they mention they were a vanity or Co-op publisher but they did ask for money up front for promotion.

Myster solved.

They're a vanity/co-op publisher.

Doesn't matter that the money they asked for was for "promotion," they won't accept your manuscript if you don't sign up for their "promotion" package. If this has happened, I'd sure be surprised.

The only sad part to this story for me is that I've learned that they're listed in a popular Christian Writer's Guide under something other than a "vanity/co-op publisher! And this is how the author I read about got lulled in.

The good news is, I contacted the author of said popular Christian Writer's Guide and was told that while Tate wasn't considered by them as a vanity press-huh!-that they would be listed under a specil section for co-op publishers on their next printing.

They also indicated they'd had complaints but most were about Tate not negotiating contracts!!!!! Is there something to negotiate? You either pay them or you don't. *scratching head* Vanity-Co-op . . . tomato-tomoto.

I don't get it. They're a vanity/co-op press. How were they supposed to act? Whether they say they are one or not, is sort of irrelevant. The fact that they ask for money pins them down. Is there some law that says these guys need to say what they are? There should be one!!!

I see the last post was 5-21! Just doing my part to keep everyone infomred.

Can you email me the name and contact info for the person you contacted who wrote the Christian Writer's Guide? I'll be happy to back you up about Tate being a subsidy/vanity press.

-Ann C. Crispin
Chair, Writer Beware
www.writerbeware.com
[email protected]

With regards to GunsBigGuns, As a Tate author my books have always been in a store and or available to be placed there should the buyer choose the theme of my book. Unfortunately just because I’m in one Barnes & Noble that doesn’t mean the rest of the buyers will agree that it’s good for their area. That being said I decided to re-check the facts and I went directly to the source.
Mark Mingle is the Director of Marketing for Tate Publishing and this is his response to the statement made by GunsBigGuns. With his permission I post his answer.


Tate Publishing works hard every day to make sure our authors’ books appear on shelves at brick and mortar stores. Our marketing staff works directly with buyers and managers from all major bookstore chains, including Barnes and Noble, Borders, Family Christian, Hastings, and Mardel. We take orders every day from these and other stores, and these chains all host our authors for book signings and events across the country. I would invite you to view the online events calendar on our website to see the stores that host our authors and that we regularly supply with books. If you have any questions about Tate Marketing, please do not hesitate to contact me at [email protected] or call 888-361-9473.

Mark Mingle
Director of Marketing
Tate Publishing & Enterprises, LLC
Toll-Free Phone: 1-888-361-9473
Fax: 405-376-4401
Email: [email protected]
Web Site: http://www.tatepublishing.com


Just an added thought, another sin is “judge not, less ye be judged yourself”.

It’s so easy to post negative things if you can be anonymous. So I say go straight to the source and ask Tate. Do research don’t rely on posts on the internet. Oh I wonder what would happen if we had to prove our statements?

Blessings Leon

Author
“JUST WHEN YOU THINK YOU’RE ALL ALONE”
“A collection of five wonderful stories for the whole family”
BY: LEON MENTZER
Voted “Best New Christian Writer 2005”
Named one of the
“Top 100 Inspirational Writers” in the nation by Writer’s Digest .

Author “AMEN A Simple Guide to Self- Marketing Your Christian Book”