Polygamist raid

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Jenan Mac

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Some of those women in there had to be of sound mind, enough to KNOW that their underage daughters having sex and being married off at 14-17 years of age was WRONG. As such, they should be prosecuted, but they probably will NOT be, due to the undue amount of media focus on this situation.


I don't honestly know.
I know that even rational, intelligent, thoughtful people can go off to odd places when they believe God is involved. If someone truly, honestly knows in his/her hert of hearts that God said to do something, that they were chosen for this task and required to do it no matter what, even the awareness that it's against the laws of the nation may not stop them. "Be in the world but not of it" has carried a lot of different meanings, depending upon who's doing the interpreting, and some of those meanings have been distinctly more wholesome than others.

Would a loving parent sacrifice my child for her (the parent's) eternal salvation? Probably not. Would that same parent sacrifice the child for the child's eternal salvation? Hard tellin'. Would she even consider what she forces her child to do a sacrifice, if she herself had been through it and made peace with the experience? And would it necessarily require force?
 

DWSTXS

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I don't honestly know.
I know that even rational, intelligent, thoughtful people can go off to odd places when they believe God is involved. If someone truly, honestly knows in his/her hert of hearts that God said to do something, that they were chosen for this task and required to do it no matter what, even the awareness that it's against the laws of the nation may not stop them. "Be in the world but not of it" has carried a lot of different meanings, depending upon who's doing the interpreting, and some of those meanings have been distinctly more wholesome than others.

Would a loving parent sacrifice my child for her (the parent's) eternal salvation? Probably not. Would that same parent sacrifice the child for the child's eternal salvation? Hard tellin'. Would she even consider what she forces her child to do a sacrifice, if she herself had been through it and made peace with the experience? And would it necessarily require force?


Oh I agree with what you're saying here. I certainly feel bad for everyone wronged in this situation.
I seriously doubt that any of the women will be charged with any crimes. They probably have been through so much, as women, as victims, that they probably thought they were doing the right things, and as such were justified in how they lived their lives in there.
I was just saying that some people seem to think that the authorities are jackbooting their way through this, and I was just pointing out that the women are very lucky in every way. To be able to get out of there, and to have the authorities protecting them in doing so. Very lucky indeed.
 

blacbird

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(I keep being unable to maintain my pledge not to comment further in this thread. Sorry. But I'll keep it noninflammatory.):

I am confident we will hear a lot more factual detail on this story in coming weeks, and months, that will render the entirety of the discussion in the thread thoroughly meaningless. The parts of it that aren't already in that category, I mean.

caw
 

Julie Worth

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Another good reason to put a stop to this whole failed experiment, was the documents they've found regarding cyanide.


From the Deseret News:

One of the more unusual items listed was a "cyanide poisoning document." "Those were simply pages from a first aid book, nothing more," said Texas Department of Public Safety spokesman Tom Vinger.
 

Autodidact

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Unbelievable. To say there is NO religious persecution going on is a stretch.

brittani: That was generations ago, in a different state. It's a completely unrelated case. In fact, it was before Warren Jeffs was born. Warren Jeffs, the "prophet", spiritual leader, and convicted felon.
 

mscelina

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*sigh*

this is getting ridiculous. People need to learn to filter out the pertinent facts when they read something. This religious persecution bullshit has just about hit the last speed bump in the parking lot for me.

Absolutely fricking unbelievable.
 

NikeeGoddess

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Big House on the Prairie

back in the news as the mothers speak out
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24141460/

- allegations that the phone call was a hoax b/c they cannot locate the 16 year old who made the phone calls
- they found several teenage girls with babies... and one 16 yr old who's already had 3 babies (and they weren't triplets)
- they found a bed in the temple... where they get married!
- mothers with children over the age of 6 where sent back to the compound
- the mothers (none of the teens btw) have gone to the media crying about how their children were taken from them
- 6 mothers have ask to be sent to shelters rather than be returned to the compound -- have they "escaped"?
- the mothers keep stating that there was no abuse to the children. no one is forcing girls as young as 13 or 14 to marry. and everything they do is out of love for them.

but i don't think they're asking the right questions or phrasing them in a way that we would. ie - "maybe the girls are not forced. but don't you think having sex, even consensual sex with a 14 year old is abuse?"
if they did ask this and the women say, "no." then i believe, as suggested that they are what we call brainwashed in the benefit of religious freedom.
 

cethklein

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Yes the questions they are asking are too vague. Brainwashed peopel are usually trained by those who brainwashed them to give roundabout answers and be avasive.

They've had a woman named Carrolyn Jessop on CNN the last few nights, she is a former member. She's been vERY insightful into what is going on there. The authorities need to be asking the questions she poses.

These people will continue to use religious freedom as a shield until the authorities succeed in showing these people that their faith is not a part of this. Right now these women are firmly convinced they're being persecuted. Until that barrier is brought down, nothing else will matter.

Again I'll use the Scientology angle. A Scientologist won't lsiten to anyone until you convince them that people who are not members of the CoS aren't "evil suppresive people". The cops need to take this FLDS thing in steps. It's like eating an elephant, you do it one bite at a time. Right now they need to focus on convincing these people they are NOT "agents of Satan". They can save the questions for later. Plus by deprogramming them it will make it harder for the men fo the sect to have control over them again.
 

johnnysannie

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Most of these woman have been raised in a families that have believed this cult's peculiar teachings for three and four generations. They have no idea what "normal" life and culture are like - the weird status quo at the YFZ Ranch has been their reality.

So, yes, the questions need to be better phrased so that the outside world can better understand what has been happening.
 

NikeeGoddess

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They have no idea what "normal" life and culture are like - the weird status quo at the YFZ Ranch has been their reality.
that IS their normal life. they don't know what our normal life is like or life outside the compound. they've been sheltered so much. in fact, they were building a guards tower at the front gate before this whole mess. i'm assuming to keep people in or out... even though the women claim they can come and go as they wish. methinks they're brainwashed to believe they never want to leave.

they sound so robotic and rehearsed. reminds me of the stepford wives.
 

mscelina

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Very interesting thing to watch:

Watch their reactions very closely when questioned about their ages. There's always a pause, almost as if they're doing math in their heads before they answer.
 

dpaterso

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I've merged the Big House thread into this thread, which got closed for good reason. Please don't start another one lest it mysteriously vanishes.

-Derek
 
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