What Constitutes YA Fiction?

Sage

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If you have adult protagonists, it's not YA. There aren't many adult POVs in YA either, but an adult POV who is not a protagonist is not necessarily going to keep you from being YA... but 19yo protagonists are most of the time going to push you out of the YA range. There are a few exceptions (most, not all, were not the author's debut book).

As far as I can tell, NA isn't a very popular thing anymore. I don't think it ever was outside of romance.

Who is your intended audience? Do the 19yos drive the story? Can then come down in age to 18 (I also don't know what "21 in their counting" means, but that's way out of YA range)? If you want this for a teen audience, seriously evaluate the book and whether it's written for the YA audience? Consider the adult perspectives? Are they truly needed? Do they have too big a hand in the plot? What is "YA-ish" about your plot?

If your book would appeal more to adults, market it to the adult market.
 

Slaven

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I say upper age limit for MC is 19 and story should be around 60k but of course it's not a rule. Let's forget about Harry Potter and exceptions, please. Also it's a broad readership: it's not that one size fits all. I think that 60k is great for 15+ readership.
 
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Cyia

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YA is coming of age, with characters young enough that they're still technically under adult supervision / authority. Unless you've got a 19-year-old high school senior, it's not really YA.

Under 60K is a ludicrous ceiling. 50K is the bare minimum for most books to be considered a "novel-length" work. Several contemporary novels float between 60 and 70K. My first book sold at over 120,000 words. My contemporary, usually the "short" genre, is over 80,000. My last few have been right at the 100K mark.

And HP was a middle grade novel when it sold, not YA. It was middle grade until book 4.
 

Slaven

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YA is coming of age, with characters young enough that they're still technically under adult supervision / authority. Unless you've got a 19-year-old high school senior, it's not really YA.

Under 60K is a ludicrous ceiling. 50K is the bare minimum for most books to be considered a "novel-length" work. Several contemporary novels float between 60 and 70K. My first book sold at over 120,000 words. My contemporary, usually the "short" genre, is over 80,000. My last few have been right at the 100K mark.

And HP was a middle grade novel when it sold, not YA. It was middle grade until book 4.

IMHO a debut novel at 120k is more like exception than a rule. Congrats on the accomplishment btw!
 

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That may be true, but for YA fantasy, 60K is probably more like a floor than an average or ceiling.
 
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Emermouse

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Under 60K is a ludicrous ceiling. 50K is the bare minimum for most books to be considered a "novel-length" work. Several contemporary novels float between 60 and 70K. My first book sold at over 120,000 words. My contemporary, usually the "short" genre, is over 80,000. My last few have been right at the 100K mark.

I was told that 50K-100K was the appropriate wordcount for YA lit and generally you could only go closer to the far end of the scale if you're writing fantasy or sci-fi, both of which require a lot of world-building. You can get away with going over 100K, but if you're trying to do this as a debut novelist, you better have written a damn good book. Publishers usually aren't willing to take that much of a chance on a debut novel, unless it is really damn good. JK Rowling doesn't have to worry about wordcount because she is a Big Name Author. She has proven that people are willing to pay lots and lots of money for her books and as such, wordcount doesn't matter with her. In fact, she could probably get a book published that consists of blank pages she's spat on, she has that much clout.
 

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Okay, so I've looked through this thread and I'm still very confused about how to choose your genre.
I thought I was writing YA, I thought it would be easier with that genre that way, meaning I won't have to think about whether it's fantasy or fiction or whatever. I am so bad at genres, I never understood which one is what and I've researched all that but got even more confused. Genres just blow my mind, there are too many of them, and I have no idea what to do with my book genre now.
There's also one other point to include here. Most books have more than one genre. And please tell me, what am I supposed to do now? I can't just say that my book is simply YA and call it a day, right? Is it Fiction? Is it a Contemporary book? Is it Fantasy? What about Paranormal and Mystery?
What is Fiction actually?
So confused, so confused...
 

cornflake

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Okay, so I've looked through this thread and I'm still very confused about how to choose your genre.
I thought I was writing YA, I thought it would be easier with that genre that way, meaning I won't have to think about whether it's fantasy or fiction or whatever. I am so bad at genres, I never understood which one is what and I've researched all that but got even more confused. Genres just blow my mind, there are too many of them, and I have no idea what to do with my book genre now.
There's also one other point to include here. Most books have more than one genre. And please tell me, what am I supposed to do now? I can't just say that my book is simply YA and call it a day, right? Is it Fiction? Is it a Contemporary book? Is it Fantasy? What about Paranormal and Mystery?
What is Fiction actually?
So confused, so confused...

Hi -

First, fiction is ... fiction. Non-fiction is true. It covers everything from biographies to cookbooks to how-to-code books, but they're all true. Fiction is not. It's invented. It's novel (the word means new).

The problem I think you're having is confusion over what YA is. It's not a genre; it's a marketing category. There are genres within it, same as within other marketing categories, and yes, something can cross over genres, but in general, you're better off picking a primary one.

Think of it like this: If books were clothing, categories would be women's, men's, children's, toddler's, baby, junior's, etc.

Within those categories, there are different styles: there's formalwear, casual, work-appropriate, athletic, leisure, etc.

There are women who can wear men's suits, t-shirts that are just adult t-shirts (and there are also t-shirts that are cut specifically for women, or sized for kids), kids who fit into adult sizes, yada yada, same as people read all sorts of things, but the categories are there to inform people about the intent, or what to expect, basically.

So you could describe an outfit as men's casual/athletic, or children's formalwear.

Categories in literature are YA, Adult, Middle Grade, etc. Within those categories are genres, like sci-fi, humour, mystery. So your thing might be YA mystery, or adult paranormal romance, or YA paranormal romance. Depends who it fits first.

Does that make sense? You can't just say a book is YA any more than you could sell clothes to someone by saying you had 'children's clothes.' You could mean anything from a romper to pajamas to a tiny tuxedo. People need more info. Children's clothing just tells you WHO it's meant to suit, not what type of thing it is.
 
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Ally_K

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Hi -

First, fiction is ... .

OH MY GOOOOOOD!!! This makes so much sense! I wish someone would have explained it to me like this years ago! JEEZ, you enlightened me. Oh my god... I feel so stupid now :D
Okay, but now there's the question on how to pick the genre. I'm still confused about genres, but at least, with your help, I finally know the difference between GENRES and CATEGORIES.
You have blown my mind.
 

cornflake

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OH MY GOOOOOOD!!! This makes so much sense! I wish someone would have explained it to me like this years ago! JEEZ, you enlightened me. Oh my god... I feel so stupid now :D
Okay, but now there's the question on how to pick the genre. I'm still confused about genres, but at least, with your help, I finally know the difference between GENRES and CATEGORIES.
You have blown my mind.

Heh, no problem.

Genres can, again, overlap, but go with what's primary.

Contemporary, btw, generally just refers to a book set in current day, with regular, real-world people and stuff, as opposed to, say, historical, set in the past, or fantasy, something with elements of fantasy like magic, or sci-fi, which can be set in the future or near current time, but generally has elements of fictional scientific development or tech, like Star Trek is sci-fi because it involves faster-than-light space travel at its core -- and on and on. You can research most genres online, or ask on here someplace. Like if your book has elves, but they live in Chicago, it's probably urban fantasy. If it's teens who talk to ghosts, it's YA paranormal, and so on.
 

Ally_K

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Heh, no problem.

Genres can, again, overlap, but go with what's primary.

Contemporary, btw, generally just refers to a book set in current day, with regular, real-world people and stuff, as opposed to, say, historical, set in the past, or fantasy, something with elements of fantasy like magic, or sci-fi, which can be set in the future or near current time, but generally has elements of fictional scientific development or tech, like Star Trek is sci-fi because it involves faster-than-light space travel at its core -- and on and on. You can research most genres online, or ask on here someplace. Like if your book has elves, but they live in Chicago, it's probably urban fantasy. If it's teens who talk to ghosts, it's YA paranormal, and so on.

Okay, I think I'm starting to understand. So if it's in cities and has magic-like stuff then I can say that it's Urban Fantasy? Or is it Mystery? Actually... What is Mystery? Does Urban Mystery exist? :D
 
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RaggyCat

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To cash in on the talk of word counts above, my three YA novels are all 62-65k. That equates to roughly 275-300 pages in book form. I'd say that my works are on the typical to slim side for YA these days - a quick glance at my bookshelf suggests most of the recent YA books I own are longer than that. Having said all this, as a rule of thumb I'd stay under 90k for contemp YA, ideally under 85k.
 

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Hi All! I've been asking some market questions in the general thread, but I thought I'd come here since it seems to belong in here!

I'm curious if my book is YA or adult, and I'm currently heavily editing so I'm not emotionally attached either way. If I need to tweak voice, amp up the pace, I'm happy to do that. But I'm hoping you can help me decide what the work ahead of me looks like!
So, here are some basics of my book:

1) MC is 18, all other supporting characters are over 25
2) Thriller/suspense elements, so pacing level is light jog to sprint throughout
3) Vocab and prose is certainly college level and (hopefully) never quite gets purple, but my strangeness shows, so blue with a change of indigo for sure.
5) Violence in the finale
6) 3rd person narrator ranging from distant to grey-matter-closeness with MC
 

frimble3

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If only the MC is actually a teenager, I'd suspect it was adult, or at least hard to sell as YA.
 

RunForPresentense

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Thank you, I will consider upping her age and see whether that changes much. Maybe it could just be that simple.
 

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I love this genre. Grew up with it and I like to write in it. I guess I have a question. Would Y.A. readers be put off by a book that in some ways skewered the genre? Not a spoof at it's expense but just a work that is very self aware of what it is? Would that go down well do you think? Also, for fans once more, is the romance angle really that much of a big deal? I don't think it ever would be for me.
 

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Yeah, sorry, that was my ignorance shining through. I know it's not a genre. My bad. I guess so yeah, I mean the coming of age stuff. Would the audience be down for that or would they think it was making fun of a template they adore? Because I want to be clear I don't look down on Y.A. at all. I love it but I think - strongly - factoring in all the different genres within the realm of Y.A. it's ripe for having some well known conventions messed around with.
 

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Yeah, sorry, that was my ignorance shining through. I know it's not a genre. My bad. I guess so yeah, I mean the coming of age stuff. Would the audience be down for that or would they think it was making fun of a template they adore? Because I want to be clear I don't look down on Y.A. at all. I love it but I think - strongly - factoring in all the different genres within the realm of Y.A. it's ripe for having some well known conventions messed around with.

This would be potentially tricky, but it could be pulled off. The best parodies come from places of knowledge and love, not places of outside mockery of what one doesn't understand and doesn't care to learn about. (Think Galaxy Quest, which poked fun at fandom and cheesy TV shows without actively belittling sci-fi or fans, and was clearly written by someone who knew and loved the subject yet could still laugh with it and see the inherent humor. Be a friend of your audience, not a bully.)

The big trick, though, would be focusing. As has been mentioned, YA is a category, not a genre, and coming-of-age... that's pretty much every YA, to some degree. You might do well to narrow your focus: contemporary romance YA, or dystopians, etc. Then read heavily in that focus area, and try to understand what the audience loves about it, and what lends itself to humor. (You also still have to remember to give the audience characters worth caring about, and a solid story structure; GQ would've fallen flat if the washed-up stars had just been flat caricatures, and the aliens who mistook them for real space heroes impossible to care about. This is where comedy, IMHO, can be tougher to write than straight material.)
 

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That's awesome feedback. Thank you and I agree with you on most of those topics. Galaxy Quest is a great example.
 

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I've given a chance to a few YA novels and I've always found the stories to tend toward Mary Sues... never read one I was happy to have read. (Fact is I don't think I even liked YA novels when I was the right age for them.)

That said, I have some clean Regency books that I've been thinking of remarketing as YA since they're not doing well as romance.
 

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I've given a chance to a few YA novels and I've always found the stories to tend toward Mary Sues... never read one I was happy to have read. (Fact is I don't think I even liked YA novels when I was the right age for them.)

That said, I have some clean Regency books that I've been thinking of remarketing as YA since they're not doing well as romance.

Forgive me if I sound defensive, because I love to defend YA, but I think you're generalizing in a huge way here. What books did you read that led you to think this way? In my personal experience, YA lends itself to a lot of rich, complex characters, but I read beyond what's "trending" in the market currently. A lot of people who generalize tend to think YA only encompasses books like Twilight or The Hunger Games or Divergent.

And if you're wanting to remarket books as YA, make sure they are YA. Don't just slap the label on them because you think they'll sell well as YA. Adult romance books have different conventions than YA romance, and may not transition smoothly.
 

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Nothing is black and white. My second book I'm writing is considered YA even though the MC is 10 going on 11. In his world, 12 is the adult age, and he's struggling to be the adult that's expected, so it's considered coming of age in his world. The content is close to adult, but fits in the YA department. Readers ages 13+ will still relate to the main character due to the coming of age problems being faced. Some say it's age and content here, but each is considered during evaluation. Generally, it's not the age that matters but rather what content or themes it contains. It also heavily depends on the book you're writing. For example, read Ender's Game. It has a young character (starting at 6!) but is considered YA today and middle/junior schools have used it for discussion. "Maybe" it's considered adult, but it's still very YA. There was no rating back then, I believe. It's an interesting topic but those are the things that I've learned over time. And, last, the book will write itself if it's good. Don't worry about ratings. Don't let it judge your work or how you write. It's a waste of time. Just tell a good story and the agent will recognize that it's something unique; he or she will work with you. I admit I'm still a beginner even though I have published a book, but I feel like this is only discussed at a start of a career than later. If you want to write something that fits in a sandbox, write for kids. Everything else is generally flexible with a good story, but the age will need to make sense aka rapid age progression, early coming of age or what not. Even if this thread goes onto its 15th page, you might have a good idea by now that YA is flexible and it really just depends on the story. So write the best story you can, make sure the age makes sense, and have fun writing :)

ps. If your MC is below 13, you might notice though that adults are more willing to read about younger MCs than teenaged readers do, so that's still something you'd have to consider. It still heavily depends on the story. And if you go adult, it may even open a bigger market. Orson Scott Card's Children of the Fleet (2017) is an adult book, and the MC is a child. But the book is easily readable for a younger person. It's generally a good way to go for marketing the book than limiting yourself to a YA crowd. At the end of the day, let your agent decide and bump up the age category if needed. I read of one agent who looks at the age and the content. She said if the MC is young and content is too complex, it gets bumped to YA. If YA doesn't fit, she bumps it up to adult. She knows marketing much better than you do; let her do her job, and you do your job as the writer and tell a good story.


But whether it's YA or adult, don't worry about it. Let the story write itself.
 
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MaeZe

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Nothing is black and white. My book is considered YA even though the MC is 10 going on 11. In his world, 12 is the adult age, and he's struggling to be the adult that's expected, so it's considered coming of age in his world. 13+ will still relate to it. Some say it's age and content here, but each is considered during evaluation. Generally, it's not the age that matters but rather what content or themes it contains.
Why?

What element does making your characters so young add to the story?
 

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Why?

What element does making your characters so young add to the story?

Whenever it makes sense to do so. Some examples in the market you can look at are Orson Scott Card and JK Rowling, both best-selling authors, who have young characters that age over time for different reasons. Card usually starts around 6 (Ender's Game, Songmaster (3 years of age?), Alvin, etc.), and Rowling did HP starting as a baby. Robin Hobb is another author. These are usually for characters you're going to see a lifespan of. Orson goes all the way to elder, but HP ended as a teenager.
 
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