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Agents charging Fees

victoriastrauss

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I'm always concerned by the potential conflict of interest when an agent offers other paid services. However, you can address this concern by raising an impenetrable wall between those two aspects of your business--i.e., never provide consultation services to clients, and never take as clients anyone who has used your consultation services.

Like Old Hack, I'm most concerned by your and your sister's lack of agenting and publishing experience. In addition to the personal contacts and practical skills an agent needs--understanding publishing contract terms (which are different from other contract terms), knowing foreign markets, understanding subrights, and so on--a good agent needs to be able to spot salable manuscripts. This is a lot harder than you might think. One of the things that trips inexperienced agents up is that they can (often) distinguish a good manuscript from a bad one, but they can't necessarily distinguish a merely good manuscript from one that's also marketable--in part because they haven't worked in publishing, and haven't observed or participated in the selection process.

I agree that you should try to work in the industry and gain some experience before striking out on your own. People who come to agenting from non-publishing-related backgrounds are at a significant disadvantage--and if things go wrong, their clients pay the price. I apologize for being blunt, but like Old Hack, I've just seen too many failed agenting ventures.

- Victoria
 

miamyselfandi

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However, is it ever possible for a person who is an agent to offer consulting (or act in another role in the writing/publishing field) and receive pay without being viewed as somewhat shifty by the writing community? What if they offer these services to the same person? Could it be avoided by only fulfilling one of those roles with a client?

Thank you,
Sierra
(Intern1)

I'm concerned by the utter lack of agenting knowledge you are exposing here, since many agents do the things you're talking about doing simply as part of being an agent. Not all, but many.

You don't know what you're doing. But you're wanting to take other writers' careers into your inexperienced hands. The sad thing is, there will always be desperate new writers who will bite.

And yeah, blunt. Sorry about that. But publishing contracts are minefields and I've seen a writer get screwed because she thought her buddy who was lawyer with experience in contracts could handle it. That bad contract had a domino effect that almost destroyed her career. The only thing that saved her was when a legitimate agent took her on five books later and the publishers backed off of some of the more nefarious clauses because they didn't to alienate her new agent.
 
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Donna Pudick

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Separate contracts don't cut it. It's under the same roof, same employees, etc. It's a conflict of interest. Yes, there are agents AND publishers who offer editorial and consulting services for money, but savvy authors will avoid them.
 

Dave.C.Robinson

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I know of one publisher that also charges for editorial services that doesn't send me running and screaming. That's because it's an either-or. They will not accept you as an editorial client if you have ever submitted to them - and anyone they edit is not allowed to submit to them later.

That's about the only way it can work.
 

Intern1

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My sister and I have definitely reconsidered our endeavor. Thank you everyone for your advice and honesty.
 

Scott Treimel

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i am afraid to post here— b/c my experience on writers' boards (where no one knows me) is. . . well, horrible: i get beat up. i do not know why.

ANYWAY: i was directed here to see the bad stuff said about S©ott Treimel NY. ouch! the ire refers to our former practice of charging clients for copying and messenger services— a common, even standard way of operating. we no longer have those expenses b/c now we submit ms electronically. still, there is nothing unethical about passing these costs to authors. what, does anyone think we make revenue that way? good grief!

now be nice, folks. i am only here to explain a misconception. i see one of my authors stuck up for our agency already.
 

Maddie

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Charging for copies, etc.

...what, does anyone think we make revenue that way? good grief!

I think if you were in the business of making revenue off of unsuspecting authors, you would 1.) accept everyone, and 2.) charge an outrageous "reading fee" of $350.00. It's my understanding that charging the author back for copying, etc., has become acceptable, and often done when the manuscript is sold (e.g., taken from the advance). Totally legitimate.

However, I too am very relieved that submissions can be made electronically. It saves paper, space, time and money. But I'm certain the Postal Service is disappointed.
 

Shrouded

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Defending, Stephen Mooney said Price was "a broken, destitute, rather sad individual" who lived on £4 a day in a bedsit with his pet cat and dog. He said he had not spent the money on trappings of a successful high life.

As usual, Price is presented as the 'real' victim to the scam. The list continues to grow, Price(gotcha!), Fletcher, Larry, Miranda,........
 

Winterturn

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As usual, Price is presented as the 'real' victim to the scam. The list continues to grow, Price(gotcha!), Fletcher, Larry, Miranda,........

Well, it was the defence attorney portraying him as a victim...

...good to see the jury didn't agree, though!
 

authorgirl1485

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I would never pay an agent to just read my work. It has nothing to do with confidence in my work. They get paid when you do, and there is something respectable about that.
 

Jonathan Dalar

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"Literary Agent" is not an entry-level position.

Bingo!

Sorry, I'm a little late to the party here, but I'd like to add that I've never seen any agent I'd be willing to send my stuff to that charges. It's not necessarily a scam, it's simply not necessary.

The proper way to become a literary agent is by coming in at the entry level as an intern, or better yet, switching over from the publishing or editing side of the house after working up through the ranks. Even if you're a newbie agent in a well established house, you'll have the credentials of that agency on your side, and you'll probably have already been an agent's or a rights agent for a while.

You should be able to vet an agent in a well established agency, even a boutique agency. Even if they do not have a long list of established credentials, you know they're a viable agent with viable connections and resources.
 

James D. Macdonald

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I would never pay an agent to just read my work. It has nothing to do with confidence in my work. They get paid when you do, and there is something respectable about that.

An old-time prospector panning for gold didn't ask the gravel to pay him a Panning Fee.
 

GothamGal

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Thank you so much for this long-running and much-needed discussion. I was under the impression you weren't supposed to pay before, but had no idea how to further back up my belief. Now I have the knowledge. Thanks, again!
 

Bonnie Ferrante

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Fee-charging violates the basic principle of the author-agent relationship: a shared financial interest in the sale of the author's book. An agent who gets paid only if you do is not only highly motivated to sell your book, but to get the best deal possible. An agent who's gotten money upfront has already made a profit, so the incentive to sell your work is diminished.

Real estate agents works more or less the same way. The commission-on-sale thing is a strong motivator.

I feel that an agent should front the expense of submissions, and reimburse herself out of the author's advance. I don't agree that expenses should be billed, even if it's after the expense is incurred--I don't think the author should pay anything out of pocket before a sale is made. Nor do I think there should be a double standard for new vs. established authors. Unfortunately, though, practices like this do seem to be increasing, especially among newer agents, though I believe they are still in the minority.

In the end, the bottom line is always track record.

- Victoria
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www.writerbeware.com/

I thought this was standard but the Bradford Literary Agency says this on their site "Most reputable agents take a 15% commission on the revenue of your book, which includes, advances, royalties, subsidiary rights etc. You will also typically be expected to reimburse the direct expenses the agent incurs on your behalf (photocopying of proposals and manuscripts, shipping/postage etc.)." Does that mean you pay up front?
 

C.J.

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I thought this was standard but the Bradford Literary Agency says this on their site "Most reputable agents take a 15% commission on the revenue of your book, which includes, advances, royalties, subsidiary rights etc. You will also typically be expected to reimburse the direct expenses the agent incurs on your behalf (photocopying of proposals and manuscripts, shipping/postage etc.)." Does that mean you pay up front?

Hi Bonnie, you have the answer to your question in what you have quoted.
He is saying that an agent will take a 15% commission on the revenue of your book........you will also typically be expected to reimburse the direct expenses.

Meaning the direct expenses also come out of the revenue of your book.
 

shaldna

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I thought this was standard but the Bradford Literary Agency says this on their site "Most reputable agents take a 15% commission on the revenue of your book, which includes, advances, royalties, subsidiary rights etc. You will also typically be expected to reimburse the direct expenses the agent incurs on your behalf (photocopying of proposals and manuscripts, shipping/postage etc.)." Does that mean you pay up front?

You should never pay up front. Any 'costs' incurred, such as photocopying, postage etc, will come out at the point the agent gets their cut. not before.
 

PVish

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. . . an agent will take a 15% commission on the revenue of your book........you will also typically be expected to reimburse the direct expenses.

Meaning the direct expenses also come out of the revenue of your book.

If authors order books from their publishers (using authors' discount) and resell the books themselves, the agent shouldn't request that the authors pay her 15% on these sales, right?
 

priceless1

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If authors order books from their publishers (using authors' discount) and resell the books themselves, the agent shouldn't request that the authors pay her 15% on these sales, right?
Agents would have a hard time making a case for that because authors don't get royalties on books they purchase from their publishers. Some publishers stipulate that authors aren't allowed to resell their books, but I've seen that rule broken a lot.
 

Steven Hutson

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Agents would have a hard time making a case for that because authors don't get royalties on books they purchase from their publishers.

Depending on the discount rate, authors can actually make MUCH MORE money than they would through a royalty.
 

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They would. But as most of the contracts that I've seen prohibit authors from buying their own books from their publishers and then selling them on, and as it's much harder and more time-consuming for writers to sell their own books than it is for their publishers to do so, it's not a good plan.
 

Steven Hutson

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1- most of the contracts that I've seen prohibit authors from buying their own books from their publishers and then selling them

2- and as it's much harder and more time-consuming for writers to sell their own books than it is for their publishers to do so, it's not a good plan.

1- Really? I've negotiated dozens of contracts, and I have never seen such a clause. It actually works in the pub's favor, for the author to sell books on his own, because the author then assumes the cost and effort of marketing and individual distribution.

2- If you're not willing to participate in the marketing of your own book, then you chose the wrong business.