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Talcott Notch Literary Services

victoriastrauss

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arkady said:
I discovered that most of the complaints about them were based upon innuendo and half-truths, and that the "evidence" for either wrongdoing or unprofessional behavior added up to exactly zero.
I can assure you that Writer Beware does not provide warnings based on "innuendo and half-truths". We have documentation for the statements we make.

- Victoria
 

Torin

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Gina requested the full MS of my novel a couple of weeks ago, I mailed it out within a few days of the request and got an email from her today with a detailed critique and a request to see it again after the rewrite. She was very helpful in her critique, very fast in her reply and I will definitely send it off to her first when the reworking is done.

Thanks, Gina, for your ideas.
 

arkady

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victoriastrauss said:
I can assure you that Writer Beware does not provide warnings based on "innuendo and half-truths". We have documentation for the statements we make.

- Victoria


Maybe so, but I wasn't referring to Writer Beware, haven't read their comments, and didn't mention Writer Beware anywhere in my posting. Don't be so quick to take personal affront to remarks that aren't aimed at you.

That said, I now will look at Writer Beware.
 

CaoPaux

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Urm, if you researched thoroughly before you queried, how did you miss checking with Writer Beware, or not notice all their comments on numerous threads on several sites? Not that Victoria needs any defense, but I suspect she reacted to the inference that you dismissed what is clearly out there to find. :Huh:
 

RonFranscell

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News from the Territories

I have watched this conversation from afar, as well as many others, since I ... let's use the gentle term ... "broke off" a relationship with a truly bad agent. I am pleased to see so many would-be authors taking their agent search seriously, but despite the energetic efforts of P&E, Writer Beware and others, bad agents abound. In fact, they might outnumber the good ones. So, it's good to be circumspect.

Bad agents break down into at least three categories: Inept, dishonest and ineptly dishonest. Believe me, they all exist in great numbers, mostly because anyone can hang out a shingle and call himself an agent. No pre-existing literary expertise, contacts, capitalization, experience, license or taste is necessary.

Agents are salespeople, not writers or editors. A good one brings sizzle to your sales. A good one knows who is looking for what. A good one represents you -- the author -- vigorously, and doesn't subsume your interests to editors'. A good one provides counsel, not ultimatums. A good one can help steer your long-term storytelling toward commercial success ... which is why we're doing this.

Yes, an agent is ALSO one key to getting in the door of major publishers, but not as necessary as they'll tell you at writers' conferences. Fact is, major publishers aren't interested in 95% of what's circulating right now anyway. And while the major publishers are where the money is, smaller presses are where much of today's quality, envelope-pushing work is going. I have no idea how many there are, but hundreds would be a conservative guess. Thus, an agent who can sell your project to a quality small house (and save you the expense and trouble of submitting on your own) is no less valuable that the agent who gets you 20 rejections from major houses then walks away.

I'm a veteran journalist and twice-published novelist. I have also dabbled in different genres (scriptwriting, book-length nonfiction, magazine and freelance newspaper writing.) I have had more than one agent, and learned some "author business" lessons the hard way. Without a doubt, many more await. That's the beauty of it: Agent relationships can be ended, and frankly, most of us midlisters (and below) aren't dealing with more than four-figure contracts. Get the best agent you can find, but don't piss away your chances to get your work in the pipeline either.

So to the point of this note: I recently submitted a project to Gina Panettieri/Talcott Notch on the advice of a friend. My interaction with her was quick, positive and professional. I asked a lot of questions that many of you haven't ever dreamed of asking because you haven't yet had the joy of being screwed over by an agent. Gina was straightforward and candid. We have not sealed any deal for representation, but at this moment, I wouldn't be at all uncomfortable with her. At worst, another "author business" lesson will be learned; at best, I'll get paid to write more stories and more people will see my books.

It's a crap shoot, friends. Let me assure you that having an agent who has sold a dozen books in the past week to a major house doesn't guarantee you'll sell, nor does it guarantee you WON'T be rear-ended. Find an agent whose approach, demeanor and history are worth your risk, and don't fool yourself that there are no-risk agents out there.

Good writing to all of you. I truly do wish you the best of luck in finding a good home for your work.
 
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roach

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Mr. Franscell --

I asked a lot of questions that many of you haven't ever dreamed of asking because you haven't yet had the joy of being screwed over by an agent.

Could you post some of your questions here (if they can be generalized). I'm sure it would be helpful to people searching for an agent to see what sorts of questions should be asked to help sniff out a scam.
 

RonFranscell

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A few -- just a few -- questions

When an agent offers you representation, the dynamic shifts drastically. You, as an author, go from being the applicant to the boss. Depending upon your attitude about doing business, you are either hiring someone to work for you, or looking for a partner who’s far, far more important than your next casual weekend date. Are you picky about dates?

AAR has a marvelous listing of basic questions you should ask a prospective agent. Find out about track record, complaints, client satisfaction, fees, commissions, etc …. All the normal stuff. Start there. But here are a few more questions, not to scare you, but to show there are myriad things you might not yet have considered. This isn't exhaustive, but I think it's representative of some issues best handled BEFORE you sign a contract.

1. Will you represent me, all my work and my career … or just choose a la carte from projects you like?
Some agents don’t want the hassle of actually committing to you, the writer. Instead they want only one project. So ask yourself, "if he dislikes my next book, do I really want to go find another agent … and for the next, another agent … and for the next another?" If you truly want a partner in your writing life, don’t accept the a la carte agent. Remember how hard it was to find ONE? Do you want to do that for every book you write?

2. How many submissions do you send in the first burst? How many will be circulating at any one time?
Face it, there’s a cost and a juggling act in sending submissions. Imagine an agent with a dozen clients sending out a dozen submissions for each. Tracking (and paying for) 144 submissions is tough, especially when some answers come in days, others in months. But … that’s what agents do. I had an agent whose rule was five submissions at a time; no more could go out until the last of the five responded. Well, what if that last editor took six months (which, in my case, happened)? You have ONE live submission with no possibility of competing offers/auctions, and nothing in the pipeline. In essence, you start over again –every time. If your agent happens to be entirely too submissive, he/she also won’t rattle editors’ cages to get action (another trait for which to watch.)

3. Does he she know the real rules of the game, and will he/she push those rules in your interest? Or does he/she have his own rules that reduce your chances of exposure to the right editors?
I know an agent who insists adamantly that it is "against the rules" to submit a manuscript/proposal to multiple imprints owned by the same parent. For example, the Free Press imprint at Simon&Schuster rejects you. This particular agent believed that she could not submit to any other imprint at Simon&Schuster, ever. It’s true that some houses won’t compete with themselves on simultaneous submissions; some editors oversee multiple imprints, making it dumb to keep submitting the same project to the people who’ve already rejected it. But many – if not most – major houses with multiple imprints will consider your manuscript, even if a sister imprint had earlier rejected it. One reason: What’s wrong for one imprint might be perfect for another. Find your prospective agent’s attitude by asking.

4. Will your agent actually read your work?
This seems like a no-brainer, but some agents aren’t interested in the width and breadth of your work. They understand they aren’t writers or editors … they are salespeople. And you’re hiring them for their sales ability. If they are also astute readers, savvy wordsmiths, engaged word-counselors … that’s good for you. But their first job is to sell your work.

Here’s the problem if they don’t read it: Would you buy a car from a salesman who never drove one? An expensive bottle of wine from a sommelier who never tasted it?

And if your proposal or partial manuscript piques an editor’s curiosity, will he be more impressed (or less) with the agent who can tell him exactly how the story unfolds, or explain nuances in the plot or narrative, or just compare it to a recent best-seller?

I learned the hard way. If an agent won’t read your work, how can he/she truly expect anyone else to read it? If a prospective agent gives you some caca about how reading a manuscript will harm her sales patter or take valuable time from his sales effort, find another one. Quickly.

5. How many clients do you have? How much attention can I expect from you?
More is not necessarily merrier. You don’t want to be No. 12 on an agent’s list of 12 clients. If an agent has plenty of help, that’s a plus. Don’t expect hand-holding and weekly calls, but if you can’t get monthly updates and replies to your messages, that’s bad. If the agent is flying solo and doesn’t even have a secretary … try to assess how the routine will affect your submissions. Can he/she communicate with you at comfortable intervals? Will your submissions get the attention they deserve, or will they be set aside while other writers get your agent’s most robust and freshest attention. An agent will tell you many things, but if he/she ever says, "I can’t send your stuff because I have several other submissions to send out," that’s a sign of being put on a back-burner.

6. What’s the last book you read for fun?
I’m skittish about agents who don’t know what’s selling. I’m skittish about agents who aren’t passionate readers. I’m skittish about agents who don’t have time for such things. They’re in the business of spotting good work, selling it effectively and efficiently, and anticipating supply-and-demand.

7. Who's more important ... me or the editor?
Many agents would rather make you angry than an editor. Why? They plan to go back to that editor dozens of times with other projects. Thus, the agent sees the editor as being more of a cash cow than you, most of the time. In the end, you risk having your interests subordinated. There's nothing wrong with a professional, honest agent keeping editors happy ... and in most cases, being professional and honest will do the trick. But if you feel your interests are second to the editor's (in your agent's eyes), they probably are. There's a way to balance both editor and writer interest ... good agents do it daily.
 
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DaveKuzminski

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While I do check on sales, I do not keep a list of those sales by title and publisher. You'll have to ask the agent what their latest sales are.
 

Mark

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For what it's worth...

I read all the posts and decided to submit to this agency.

I sent an email query along with a synopsis and chapter outline to this agency. I got a quick reply with a fair critque and valid support for the reasons behind the rejection. Although I got rejected, it was professional. I've seen a lot worse.
 

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It's good to ask questions of a prospective agent. But the bottom line is track record. Here are some additional questions that writers might consider:

- Does the agent have experience selling books like yours? You have a better chance if she does, since expertise in one market, such as women's fiction, may not guarantee expertise in another, such as fantasy.

- Is the agent making regular sales to a variety of publishers, large and small? A track record concentrated in one area--say, entirely on smaller publishers that don't require writers to be agented--is not really varied. Nor is a track record mostly composed of sales to one or two publishers.

- Does the agent's track record coincide with your publication goals? If your goal is to sell to an imprint of a large publishing house, you've a better chance of achieving it if your agent is actually selling to those imprints. If the agent isn't selling to those imprints, it might be a good idea to ask why.

- Is the agent's sales frequency proportionate to his/her client list? A successful small agency may make less than a dozen sales a year. A successful midsize agency may make 20, 30, or even more. But if the agent has a midsize client roster--say, 30-50 authors--and a small-size sales record, it suggests that either the agent is taking on less marketable clients, or he/she is not providing very efficient representation.

- Victoria
 

Wandering Sensei

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I just heard from this agency. Took seven months (I was told 4-5 weeks by the agency when I submitted) and a followup query, and I got back a generic "no."
 

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arkady said:
I researched both Talcott Notch and Gina Panettieri thoroughly before querying them. I discovered that most of the complaints about them were based upon innuendo and half-truths, and that the "evidence" for either wrongdoing or unprofessional behavior added up to exactly zero.

Yeah, same here. Specific incidents with names attached to them measured to less than bumpkiss. It's pretty obvious to me as a former journalist that someone had a smear agenda in mind, hoping to grow a mighty oak of innuendo from a dessicated acorn of actual fact.

For the record (someone is keeping a record?), I'm the author of 32 published novels with six more appearing over the next couple of years or so.

Ms. Panettieri is my agent, representing a somewhat off-standard project of mine which is also in an rather off-standard format. She saw what I had, understood what I wanted and instead of throwing up a blizzard of objections because the project varied from standard, she basically said, "Let's see what we can do with it."

She has continuously impressed me with her professional, courteous and caring manner.

I would recommend her to anyone seeking representation, established pros and first-timers alike.
 

JustinoXXV

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Axler, I'd love to read one of your novels. Surely you can post under your real name, so I can look you up at Barnes and Nobles, or some other book store? Or I could do a google on you or look you up at www.amazon.com
 

Julie Worth

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JustinoXXV said:
Axler, I'd love to read one of your novels. Surely you can post under your real name, so I can look you up at Barnes and Nobles, or some other book store? Or I could do a google on you or look you up at www.amazon.com

If you’ll check under his public profile you’ll see that he writes and posts under the same name. And if you check on Amazon, you’ll see that he has a new book out every month or two. And not thin ones, either. How does he do it? Does he really write one of those fat tomes every month or two (in which case I’d love to know what supplements he’s taking) or is this the republished work of twenty years?
 

Axler

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Julie Worth said:
How does he do it? Does he really write one of those fat tomes every month or two (in which case I’d love to know what supplements he’s taking) or is this the republished work of twenty years?

I wish that was the case. Then I might have more of a life away from the keyboard.

Actually, I write the Outlanders series under the "house name" of James Axler. I write four books a year, each one with a word count of around 85,000 words...some a little longer, some a little shorter. Another series entitled Deathlands has the same house name attributed to it, although I guess I'm the "official" Axler, simply by dint of volume.

Although I wrote a few books in the DL series several years ago, for the last eight-plus years, it's been in the hands of a revolving door system of anonymous writers. The actual creator of that series quit after writing three-quarters of the first book.

By contrast, I was contracted to create Outlanders by the publisher and I'm still with it nine years later and unlike contributors to DL, I'm acknowledged as the creator/writer.

Outlanders is the best-selling title in the publisher's imprint (Gold Eagle publishes six series) and with recent interest from Hollywood, the publisher has pulled in a fill-in writer to provide a few inventory books to make sure the series rumbles along in case I'm hit by a bus or something.

If you're interested you can check out this site:
www.Jamesaxler.com

Over the last few months, a company has released audio books of Gold Eagle's series, presenting them like old-time radio dramas. You can listen to an excerpt of their current Outlanders release (although the book itself is nearly three years old), Devil In The Moon, on their site.

http://www.cuttingaudio.com/
 
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Roger J Carlson

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Mark said:
For what it's worth...

I read all the posts and decided to submit to this agency.

I sent an email query along with a synopsis and chapter outline to this agency. I got a quick reply with a fair critque and valid support for the reasons behind the rejection. Although I got rejected, it was professional. I've seen a lot worse.

I can second this. I submitted my novel to Talcott Notch and have been watching this thread with interest ever since. After waiting a couple of weeks past the promised six, I sent a polite requery and got an immediate response.

Unlike so many agents (many of whom don't even respond if they're not interested), I received a reasoned critique in addition to the rejection. (Sigh. It's not the first.) On the other hand, her objections were valid, and I have corrected them for the next agent I approach.

I can't say that whether Ms. Panettieri is a *good* agent or not. A good agent is one who selles *your* work. However, I don't believe she falls into the "Inept, dishonest and ineptly dishonest" categories mentioned earlier in this thread.

I'd have no qualm about submitting to her again.

--Roger J. Carlson
www.rogerjcarlson.com
 

victoriastrauss

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Axler said:
It's pretty obvious to me as a former journalist that someone had a smear agenda in mind, hoping to grow a mighty oak of innuendo from a dessicated acorn of actual fact.
Hmmm. I assume you're referring at least in part to me, as I've commented here and elsewhere about this agency. However, I don't remember ever being contacted by you. I'm wondering, therefore, what journalistic criteria you're using to draw conclusions about smear agendas.

- Victoria
 

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victoriastrauss said:
Hmmm. I assume you're referring at least in part to me, as I've commented here and elsewhere about this agency. However, I don't remember ever being contacted by you. I'm wondering, therefore, what journalistic criteria you're using to draw conclusions about smear agendas.

Not a bit of it. I have nothing but respect for Writer Beware and my statement you quoted should in no way be construed as referencing you or your site.

However, months ago I did indeed ask for specific information that met the journalistic criteria of Who, What, When and Where and was instead referred to several old posts on a couple of different message boards.

I found threads that made vague references to incidents that happened years in the past but significantly with no names, specific events or anything else that could be independently confirmed attached to them.

That meets my journalistic standards of innuendo, particularly since the people who made the posts were for all intents and purposes, anonymous. The threads didn't even meet my criteria of ancedotal information. Another reason I didn't find the information legitimate was this:

A few times in the past I was involved with either scammers or dishonest publishers. I can state without fear of refutation I was not/am not coy about naming names or laying out the specifics of the incidents. Quite the contrary.

If the people involved didn't like what I said about them, then they could have filed suit for libel, but in that eventuality they would be behooved to prove my statements were false...which they couldn't do, so no suit was ever filed.

If somebody (or several somebodies) has demonstrably provable experiences of wrongdoing by Talcott Notch that don't spring from personal disagreements or misunderstandings, it seems curious that they've never laid out the specifics or the resolutions.

What are they afraid of? Jeez, I've even told an editor that I intended to kick his *** if we ever crossed paths and it never affected my ability to get work...in fact, I got more work after I told him that. Hmm...

So, in my opinion, what I found was the equivalent of passing snide notes in study hall: "Talcott Notch is stinky-poo, 'cause they didn't sell the memoirs my second cousin's great-grandfather wrote and I can't remember his name or the name of the book or when this happened, but they're still all stinky-poo. Pass it on."
 

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Axler said:
So, in my opinion, what I found was the equivalent of passing snide notes in study hall: "Talcott Notch is stinky-poo, 'cause they didn't sell the memoirs my second cousin's great-grandfather wrote and I can't remember his name or the name of the book or when this happened, but they're still all stinky-poo. Pass it on."
In my opinion, the complaints are not that Gina is a bad person, but that she only sells to small publishers the author could have approached on their own. Gina seems to be a fine person, and is certainly generous in her critiques, but she doesn't seem to able to sell books to the "big" guys (despite her claim that they frequently ask her for material). It's not a bad thing to only pursue the independent pubs, but it's something that writers need to be aware of when they approach her.
 
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Wandering Sensei

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Wandering Sensei said:
I just heard from this agency. Took seven months (I was told 4-5 weeks by the agency when I submitted) and a followup query, and I got back a generic "no."

Let me write an addendum to this. That generic no kind of bummed me out, but a couple days later Gina sent me another e-mail. Brief, about a page's worth of critique, but rarely does a rejection leave me feeling good. :) She said that I had writing talent, and she enjoyed the story, but (paraphrasing here) the book is not as marketable as it stands as some others. There's apparently not a lot that takes it out of the pack, even though it's a good piece of writing.

Well, it's a bummer that it's a rejection. No means no however you phrase it. But it gives me specifics to grab onto and helps answer the question of why it's garnered interest but has had no takers. And it's affirmed (and I've gotten some similar comments from other agents) that I'm perfectly capable of writing a good story, just perhaps not this story.

It's frustrating, though, because the "flaws" of the book aren't really something that I can easily do anything about. To change it, I'd have to totally revamp it into a whole new book. In that case, I may as well just do that, write a whole new book.

Sigh. More work. Grumble. I'll certainly consider trying Gina again with a future project, though.
 

RonFranscell

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Another perspective

I submitted a query to Gina Panettieri/Talcott Notch on Feb. 8, 2005. It contained synopses of two manuscripts -- one nonfiction and one novel -- as well as some material about my previously published novels and my writing life.

Within three weeks, we chatted on the phone about my projects (and more importantly, my future.) Because I've had some bad experiences with agents, I asked some tough questions about Gina, especially about some of the vague, second-hand criticisms that have been posted here. I was satisfied with her answers, and we seemed to have good rapport. Gina offered representation. A contract was signed the first week of March.

Rights offerings were posted within 10 days and have already caught some editors' attention.

So, in one month's time, Gina read, responded, made a business decision, and we entered a business arrangement to represent my writing ... and my material was in the pipeline. It was professional, courteous, efficient and rather refreshing. Like many (most?) of you, I have gotten more form-letter rejections than I care to think about (Why do they always start, "Dear Author: We hate form-letters as much as you do, but ..."?)

Gina offered prompt attention in my case. I understand (and must warn you) that it's more the exception than the rule for agents and editors to be so prompt, but a healthy share of the criticisms here have been about Talcott Notch's response time. Perhaps Gina has taken your criticisms to heart, or perhaps they were unfounded to begin with, but in my case, I'm not sure we could expect a more prompt reaction.

As for criticisms that she apparently does too much business with small houses for some authors' taste ... among the interested editors in my case are major houses. Nonetheless, while the major houses have certain benefits, they also have certain shortcomings. I have had books published by big and small houses, and I can see clear strengths (and woeful weaknesses) in both.

I'll keep you posted as my professional relationship with Gina unfolds.
 
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CACTUSWENDY

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:Thumbs: ....Congrats and best wishes for you......:Clap:
 

dragonjax

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Terrific feedback, long RT

Last August, Gina requested my full MS, which I sent out immediately. On November 3, I received a three-page, single-spaced, typed letter with her feedback. It was the most detailed, informative, helpful response I'd received in the year that I had been querying. After taking a few weeks to process the feedback and make her suggested revisions, I sent the revised full MS to her on November 30, knowing I was coming up on holiday time. As of today, I haven't gotten feedback yet. I know feedback is coming, because I've asked Gina about it -- she had finished reading my MS and had to pull together her comments -- but it's simply not here yet. Very frustrating, but I know it will be worth the wait.

If every agent gave feedback the way Gina did, we would be better writers for it.
 

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Ron, I would appreciate your updates on your agent relationship.

I have been following this Talcott Notch business and hardly know what to make of it. I think I'd like to query just to get one of these lovely in depth rejection letters.
I also must note, I rather like the name "Talcott Notch". I don't know what it means, but it sure is cute. These things matter when you are looking for your umpteenth agent to query =)