The Wild Rose Press / Wildflowers Books

Sorry. Now I'm beginning to think otherwise.

Congrats, bookgirl71!

You have an offer. That means you've got the goods.

But as others have mentioned, do your homework. Don't take the first responder unless you're comfortable with ALL the terms.

I have a few things with Wild Rose. Are they terrific to work with? Yes! Supportive. Responsive. Enthusiastic. Even business savvy--in that their POD's are non-returnable--after a certain amount of returns they made the very business-like decision to not go down the tubes with some other e to print pubs by allowing authors to order books at publisher expense that might not sell.

This means you buy your own books at a discount and are responsible for placing them.

If you have a solid marketing/signing/distribution on consignment plan in mind, you can make this work, If you're thinking if I publish it, they will come, think again.

lainey bancroft

Hi Lainey,

I actually don't have an "offer" YET. I'm anticipating what to do should an offer come. My full was requested by WRP and things have moved quite rapidly to get to the point where I am now.
I'm still doing my homework about them should it take a more serious turn.

Their website states that their books ARE returnable and therefore may be ordered by bookstores, not necessarily the author. I've emailed an editor to clarify this and if an offer comes I'm prepared to go over all the terms. It doesn't say anywhere on the website that authors must purchase their own books and place them.

Any WRP authors out there, please feel free to explain.

Just saying that it's possible they'll pass on a full. They did with me. So remember, it ain't a done deal till the ink is splashed on the contract. Query and submit in the meantime--like Unc Jim says, "Till hell won't have it."

Tri

I believe they went back to being non-returnable. But if you find out for sure please let us know.

I talked to one of the owners of The Wild Rose Press and she says the company's current policy is: Books are returnable until we set the specific title to no returns - but that happens only after we've reached our limit and talked to the author, it's not automatic. We've only done this on a handful.

Wild Rose Press

That's good to know. Thank you.
I wonder what determines the limit?

Also, Iwas told that the number of books available for a book signing varies and is usually at the author's discretion. Not to sound stupid - but what does that mean exactly? The author has input on how many books are ordered for a signing?

The Wild Rose Press encourages the author to order the books for any book signing so that is why they tell you that the author has input into how many are ordered.

But typically the bookstore would ask for the book details and order the books. Larger stores may not be able to sell book not on their inventory, indy stores or stores with a hands-on manager are much more felxible.

Well I can only speak from my experience there having had two books with them. The preference was that the author ordered the books for a signing from the publisher rather than having the book store ordering them as that would cut down on returns. If a bookstore ordered too many and returned them that became a big issue for them which is why the preference was the author provide them for signings.

I have never had a signing myself so I am not sure exactly how it worked.

smlgr8 said:

The preference was that the author ordered the books for a signing from the publisher rather than having the book store ordering them as that would cut down on returns. If a bookstore ordered too many and returned them that became a big issue for them which is why the preference was the author provide them for signings.

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Agreed. I looked back through all the correspondence when my first WRP novel went to print and I was not told outright that there were NO returns. At one point there was talk of having a strict 'no returns' policy, but the current WRP author's manual states they'll accept 'limited returns.' Seeing as I have no Borders or B&N stores locally (I'm Canadian, we have Chapters and Coles, and the shipping difference to Ontario--even though NY is literally minutes away from me--is astronomical!) So for me, it does make more sense to order the books and not have to 'pay the piper' if returnability becomes an issue, and when they say 'limited' they do mean it. If you have an XYZ # of copies in your head that you think would be 'reasonable' to expect a bookstore to order for a signing, please share and I'll share whether you're in the ball park or not.

Thing is, POD is great in many ways. I've done well at the small local signings I've arranged--outside of book stores. My books are nice quality trade paperbacks I'd put up against any other trade paperback, but totally NOT "cost competetive" in a bookstore as someone else in the thread brought up. I can order them at author discount and arrange my own signing and do okay. A bookstore? Not so much. When you can grab a mass market paperback by recognized names for $4.00-$8.00, how likely are you to reach for an 'unknown name' for $13.00-$15.00?

Not trying to be a wet sheet at all. Just hoping to offer the 'reality' so you have a clear idea what to expect...because I didn't. I have a clearer picture now and a much better idea of how to build on things, but it isn't as simple as just getting a book store to agree to order/stock books.

Good luck! Hope you get positive news from WRP. They really are wonderful to work with and growing every day.

WRP and Getting books on the shelves

I thought I'd mention something that I haven't seen brought up. This is a new agreement, but I think it addresses the issue being discussed. I recently received this e-mail from WRP. I doubt they'd mind me sharing this because this is great news for writers with WRP and those considering them.

****

We've just signed an agreement with Lightning Source Inc to include all of our print titles in their new Espresso Book Machine sales channel.

"Lightning Source is pleased to announce the launch the Espresso Book Machine (EBM) Channel officially at BookExpo America starting this Friday. The EBM, an ATM for books, is located in bookstores, libraries and other sites. The Espresso Book Machine is the latest pioneering distribution channel to join the Lightning Source family of publisher-to- market pathways.

The Lightning Source Espresso Book Machine Channel will give publishers the option to make available the books they have stored in the Lightning Source digital library, and have those titles printed, bound, and delivered at point of sale, on demand, in minutes."

To learn more, go to http://www.lightnin gsource.com/ ebm.aspx

****

I'm excited about it... looks to me like this is the ticket into bookstores and libraries.

Doralynn

Honestly I don't see the any difference to what is going on now. Your book is still not on the shelves of a book store. You will not be getting any passing traffic, anyone who goes to the book store is still going to have to be specifically looking for your book. Instead of ordering and waiting weeks they can now get it printed in about half an hour.

Espresso Book Machine

I think it sounds pretty cool, another outlet for authors looking for another bridge to get their books in the public spotlight. Ok, so the books are not on the shelves, they're in a little ATM. But still . . . just a little elbow grease with advertising to get your title out there and people will look your book up. Not to mention, people will certainly be intrigued and begin to browse which is what they do when they walk up and down an aisle any way. I've found alot of amazing books perusing Barnes & Noble.com and these books were not found on the shelf. It didn't stop me from ordering them.
I think if this takes off, it could end up being successful.

What blows me away is that people with major agents sometimes don't get carried in all bookstores. For first time writers, it's very hard. I've heard from two AWers with top NYC agents that Borders doesn't carry and Barnes and Noble can be sporadic.

So, sometimes it's a hit or miss either way.

CaoPaux said:

What do agents have to do with getting books on shelves? They are not the publisher's marketers. Yes, even the biggest publisher cannot guarantee your book on every shelf, but your chances are astronomically better with them than with a POD having no distribution and marketing at all.

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I guess I was just referencing my own prior naivete about the publishing industry that a lot of people share.....NY Agent....Awesome Publisher....equals distribution in all major chains. But it doesn't.

And maybe that's not the route for everyone.....

bookgirl71 said:

I think it sounds pretty cool, another outlet for authors looking for another bridge to get their books in the public spotlight. Ok, so the books are not on the shelves, they're in a little ATM. But still . . . just a little elbow grease with advertising to get your title out there and people will look your book up. Not to mention, people will certainly be intrigued and begin to browse which is what they do when they walk up and down an aisle any way. I've found alot of amazing books perusing Barnes & Noble.com and these books were not found on the shelf. It didn't stop me from ordering them.
I think if this takes off, it could end up being successful.

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I think the Machine is a good idea but I don't think author's shouldn't kid themselves that this is akin to getting your books on the shelves of a book store. It's not. There will be hundreds of thousands if not millions of books in the catalogue of this book machine. The chances that someone will be browsing the catalogue and just stumble across your book and buy it is very unlikely. They will need to be looking for it. So I agree advertising is going to be very important.

IIRC from the news item the books from the book machine will be more expensive than the books you can pick up on the shelves so I think that will also cut down on the curiosity purchases. So it is not the same as browsing the catalogue of an online bookstore where you can pick up books cheaper than rrp.

sumthinirote said:

I thought I'd mention something that I haven't seen brought up. This is a new agreement, but I think it addresses the issue being discussed. I recently received this e-mail from WRP. I doubt they'd mind me sharing this because this is great news for writers with WRP and those considering them.

****

We've just signed an agreement with Lightning Source Inc to include all of our print titles in their new Espresso Book Machine sales channel.

"Lightning Source is pleased to announce the launch the Espresso Book Machine (EBM) Channel officially at BookExpo America starting this Friday. The EBM, an ATM for books, is located in bookstores, libraries and other sites. The Espresso Book Machine is the latest pioneering distribution channel to join the Lightning Source family of publisher-to- market pathways.

The Lightning Source Espresso Book Machine Channel will give publishers the option to make available the books they have stored in the Lightning Source digital library, and have those titles printed, bound, and delivered at point of sale, on demand, in minutes."

To learn more, go to http://www.lightnin gsource.com/ ebm.aspx

****

I'm excited about it... looks to me like this is the ticket into bookstores and libraries.

Doralynn

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My other question here would be exactly how many bookstores have actually signed up to have one of these machines? This is going to take up a chunk of floorspace and I'm unsure how many stores will be willing to move things around to accommodate something like this. Also, how much noise will it make? If it makes too much noise bookstores won't want it. There are other things to consider here too. How much time and attention will the machine take for the store employees? Who reloads the toners/inks and paper when they run out? How big a learning curve is there in refilling the machine with toner/ink and paper. If it's too complicated, or requires a service call are bookstores going to want to deal with it?

I doubt any library would place one as they aren't in the business of selling books, just loaning them. If they have to take money for books there aren't many libraries that are going to be willing to effectively act as a bookseller. Most libraries have limited staff, and I'm sure they aren't going to foot the cost for patrons to print books.

Such machines have been available in the UK and in some European countries for a while now. I haven't seen any information on how well they've worked beyond the initial articles that they were being tried.

I'm going to wait and see how this plays out, and what booksellers/chains pick it up before I get too excited regarding this prospect.

And if these books do cost significantly more than typical POD, that's going to hurt even more since many people will pick two cheaper mass market paperback books over one much more costly print-while-you-wait title.

michael_b said:

My other question here would be exactly how many bookstores have actually signed up to have one of these machines?

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I saw a demonstration of the Espresso at BEA (tres cool--it's actually very compact, maybe 6' or 7' long by 3' wide by 5' high, and as easy to use as a copier), and asked this very question. According to the rep, the Espresso is in 15 locations at present (mostly bookstores, some libraries) and expects that to rise to more than 100 locations in the next couple of years.

Impressive for brand-new technology--but, at present and probably for the near future, hardly an alternative to bricks-and-mortar distribution.

- Victoria

victoriastrauss said:

I saw a demonstration of the Espresso at BEA (tres cool--it's actually very compact, maybe 6' or 7' long by 3' wide by 5' high, and as easy to use as a copier), and asked this very question. According to the rep, the Espresso is in 15 locations at present (mostly bookstores, some libraries) and expects that to rise to more than 100 locations in the next couple of years.

Impressive for brand-new technology--but, at present and probably for the near future, hardly an alternative to bricks-and-mortar distribution.

- Victoria

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How very cool that you saw a demonstration, Victoria! I haven't yet, aside from the online video, but there is a machine stationed at a university book store (Hamilton, McMaster) less than an hour from me and I can't wait to get there and check it out.

Canada actually houses four out of the fifteen machines, Two in Ontario, one in Alberta and another in Quebec--we're EXTREMELY environmental here--so I hope we keep acquiring machines. But as others have said, book sale-wise, I don't think this compares to having cover frontage on a mainstream retail shelf. For me, however, if I've laid the promo groundwork, it could sway a buyer hesitant to spend the exorbitant shipping cost from US to Canada and make them check out one of my books.

More News from WRP

I'm glad people were able to answer the questions about the Espresso Book Machine because I didn't know the answers. I still see it as a positive development, but I realize there is more than one way to look at something, and I tend to be a 'glass is half-full' kind of person.

My concern is that I see a lot of negative talk about WRP, and I don't understand it. Everything I see coming out of there is positive, and my whole experience with them has been positive. My novel, Sleeping With Skeletons, was set to be released April 30, 2010, but my editor e-mailed me out of the blue this morning, and my release date has been moved up to October 2, 2009! That's good news for me, but I see good news there for all of their authors.

They just opened up their own print bookstore and will be making titles available to bookstores. It will be much easier for bookstores to order WRP books now, and they will get discounts when they order. There are still no refunds though. Anyway, I really have had a positive experience with them so far, and I'd recommend them to anyone. I'm invested in their success, but I know they're invested in mine too. I don't know how well other houses treat their authors, WRP is the first publisher I've worked with, but I don't see how any other house could treat a writer any better.

Doralynn
http://www.doralynn.net/skeletons.html

I think that's wonderful about your book being released earlier! Congrats!
My full is still out with WRP and it's my first novel. Yes, I've contacted and queried EVERYONE. But my list is dwindling and if WRP makes an offer you can bet I'm going to take it.
My experience with one of their editors has been nothing but professional. All emails have been answered timely and I understand they are real sticklers when it comes to communication. I truly believe they are a small press to keep an eye on if they offered a contract I would be ecstatic to accept.

Lainey Bancroft said:

How very cool that you saw a demonstration, Victoria! I haven't yet, aside from the online video, but there is a machine stationed at a university book store (Hamilton, McMaster) less than an hour from me and I can't wait to get there and check it out.

Canada actually houses four out of the fifteen machines, Two in Ontario, one in Alberta and another in Quebec--we're EXTREMELY environmental here--so I hope we keep acquiring machines. But as others have said, book sale-wise, I don't think this compares to having cover frontage on a mainstream retail shelf.

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I think at the moment the EBM provides the necessary 'missing link' between ebook purchases and over the counter purchases. At the moment the buying public are still uncertain about the purchase of books in PDF to their PC or portable ebook reader. The EBM has the potential to bridge that gap temporarily. The vast majority of book buyers want something physical when they spend their cash, but if their selection is increased in the local bookstore to any book on the shelf or published and available via the EBM, then it's good for the bookseller as well as the customer. Time will tell in the roll out of the EBM. It still needs to become more than just a college or select store option.