The Wild Rose Press / Wildflowers Books

I'm published with them too. Yes, they do have a large editorial staff, and they are as full-time as anyone can be while still holding down the jobs that pay the rent. The people who work for TWRP do it because they believe in this company. Not for the cash. It really is as touchie-feelie and "nice" as everyone says it is. The company mantra is..."if you are going to reject, tell them why--give them a few "marked up-track-change pages" to see what they can improve on." It isn't actual editing except in the sense that some editor cared enough to help. Some lines prefer not to track-change and simply give solid "this is what isn't working for me, maybe if you did..." suggestions.

They will also give a track-change r and r.

Their yahoo loops are full of nothing but happy people. I was totally amazed. Every concern is addressed within days. Every negative thing they discover about themselves is also addressed and corrected. They took note of the Triskelion disaster and carefully adjusted their procedures so it wouldn't happen to them too.

er, Chumplet. They're growing, so edits take longer on the turnaround. They're still pretty darned fast. I have good feelings about this group.

In the beginning I was really really iffy--but call me a convert. These guys are like the borg--everything operates for the greater good.

...from what I understand, a per project percentage of royalties is how the small presses operate right now. There's a thread over on Romance Divas where someone asked e and small editors/cover artists how they get paid--and across the board--not one was paid a "flat per hour". It's not like they own NY real estate.

Wild Rose doesn't do full edits on a ms until the contract is in. As someone said, it would be a waste of time and resources. It's pretty much company policy to be as "author-friendly" as possible.

I'm curious, are there other e-pubs out there that offer suggestions on improving a story? Or do most do as the print publishers do... a form letter that basically says "Thanks but no, thanks. Your story doesn't meet our needs at the present time."

My CP got an R&R from Samhain with some fairly specific direction for improving her story. Not a guarantee of publication by any stretch, but at least one e-pub that says "thanks for trying, here's why we don't want it"

jodi henley said:

I'm published with them too. Yes, they do have a large editorial staff, and they are as full-time as anyone can be while still holding down the jobs that pay the rent. The people who work for TWRP do it because they believe in this company. Not for the cash. It really is as touchie-feelie and "nice" as everyone says it is.

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This part is what keeps me a fair distance from WRP. I mean, I'm all for believing in the company, but this is a business. I dunno, maybe it's because I'm not a touchie-feelie type person, but some of the emails that go out to authors (friend pubbed there) just gag me with sweetness.

Me, I'm giving them at least another year to see if they run out of sugar.

ceelee said:

Wild Rose doesn't do full edits on a ms until the contract is in. As someone said, it would be a waste of time and resources. It's pretty much company policy to be as "author-friendly" as possible.

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Well, in at least one case they certainly did, so...I'm not sure if you're saying the girl who cheered when she found her edited ms in her inbox and then found the weeks-old contract in her spam filter was lying, or that I am?

I'm curious, are there other e-pubs out there that offer suggestions on improving a story? Or do most do as the print publishers do... a form letter that basically says "Thanks but no, thanks. Your story doesn't meet our needs at the present time."

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Most publishers of any stripe don't have time to offer critiques on every rejection, no. It's nice that TWRP does it, but a form letter is really all that's expected in most cases.

jodi henley said:

I'm published with them too. Yes, they do have a large editorial staff, and they are as full-time as anyone can be while still holding down the jobs that pay the rent. The people who work for TWRP do it because they believe in this company. Not for the cash. It really is as touchie-feelie and "nice" as everyone says it is.

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Benevolence is great, and I don't think there is a single publisher who doesn't love what they do. However, love and believing in a company doesn't pay the bills. Selling books does. What kind of message does "not for the cash" send to its authors? If they aren't in this crazy game to make money, then how hard will they work to get distribution and to get their books on shelves? While it's terrific that the authors are happy, how much of it stems from actual sales?

These guys are like the borg--everything operates for the greater good.

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The only thing authors should consider when looking for a publisher is whether they get their books sold. What, exactly, does "the greater good" mean?

...from what I understand, a per project percentage of royalties is how the small presses operate right now

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NO! This is NOT true. This is oftentimes how small print on demand publishers work because they don't have much money. A serious lack of proper financing is why POD publishers exist. And let's not get into the digital printing aspects -- I'm talking about the POD business plan. Trade publishers, on the other hand pay their staff. To put this in a more realistic context, you get what you pay for. Geez, I sound cranky. Sorry. I'm sick right now.

Indeed, even in this area editors are often paid a flat fee of some kind. As for sales: http://www.erecsite.com/PLIST.html -- with more on sales over a longer period to be posted next month.

Hmm. I worked as an editor for one of the top epublishers, and I was paid a percentage of royalties. No flat fees. I could put in forty hours of work on a book and make twenty dollars for it, which is one of the reasons I quit. The editors for most epubs AREN'T in it for the money, because for the most part there's not a lot of it.

Which, in my humble but opinion, is why the majority of e-publishers have little or no standing a businesses. Publishing is a business, editing is a profession. I'm write for love, but I publish for money--and I don't expect any less for editors, copy-editors, type setters or cover artists. I do my charity work for charities and other worthy causes. If I don't end up making ate least semi-pro rates I don't submit there again--so I'm with you on that.

DecemberQuinn said:

Well, in at least one case they certainly did, so...I'm not sure if you're saying the girl who cheered when she found her edited ms in her inbox and then found the weeks-old contract in her spam filter was lying, or that I am?

Most publishers of any stripe don't have time to offer critiques on every rejection, no. It's nice that TWRP does it, but a form letter is really all that's expected in most cases.

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I was just saying what I know about the company; I wasn't saying or even implying that you or anyone else were lying! I certainly didn't think I sounded offensive. Maybe I should stick to lurking...

If someone got an edited ms before a contract, then good for her.

Thanks for the input re publishers, jennontheisland and Ms. Quinn.

ceelee said:

I was just saying what I know about the company; I wasn't saying or even implying that you or anyone else were lying! I certainly didn't think I sounded offensive. Maybe I should stick to lurking...

If someone got an edited ms before a contract, then good for her.

Thanks for the input re publishers, jennontheisland and Ms. Quinn.

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I didn't say I was offended (I'm not), just curious.

When I say "I know something happened," and then you say "That doesn't happen," I think the only way to interpret that is that you're claiming someone is not telling the truth. Whether you intended that or not, it is in fact the implication.

I too was "just saying what I know about the company"; I wasn't addressing anyone in particular, but you clearly were. That's certainly within your rights, and you're welcome to do so. But you shouldn't make statements you can't back up.

There's no need to "stick to lurking" either. I really don't think I've jumped all over you or yelled in all caps or sent you threatening emails or pms or anything that would make you feel like you didn't have just as much right to post here as anyone else. I made a statement; you claimed it was untrue; I asked for clarification. That's all.

DecemberQuinn said:

I didn't say I was offended (I'm not), just curious.

When I say "I know something happened," and then you say "That doesn't happen," I think the only way to interpret that is that you're claiming someone is not telling the truth. Whether you intended that or not, it is in fact the implication.

I too was "just saying what I know about the company"; I wasn't addressing anyone in particular, but you clearly were. That's certainly within your rights, and you're welcome to do so. But you shouldn't make statements you can't back up.

There's no need to "stick to lurking" either. I really don't think I've jumped all over you or yelled in all caps or sent you threatening emails or pms or anything that would make you feel like you didn't have just as much right to post here as anyone else. I made a statement; you claimed it was untrue; I asked for clarification. That's all.

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I had skimmed the many postings quickly before I posted my comment about Wild Rose and its policy. If I had been addressing anyone in particular (such as yourself) or anyone's posting, I would have quoted the posting directly as reference or named said person in my original posting. I was not addressing you or anyone else. I wasn't even thinking about any particular posting -- I did just skim -- and just threw in my two cents about what I knew about the company.

I've gone back to see exactly what it was you said in detail to warrant your saying that I've implied someone is lying. Personally, I give people the benefit of the doubt, unless they directly name me or quote what I say. It's hard to remember what everyone has said in a thread. I know there's an option to review the entire thread but when I've used it I get an error.

No, you didn't "yell" or send threatening emails or PMs but you don't have to do that to make someone feel "taken back", especially if one's a newbie and the other is not. I am a newbie, on this board at least. But whatever...

About what I said earlier about Wild Rose's policy, I know that because I know people who edit there.

I have a book coming out with them soon and have had a great experience so far. My editor has responded to me in a timely manner every time I asked something. The publisher keeps all the authors informed about the company on a regular bases.

Jennifer Robins

www.jenniferrobins.com

I received the most amazing revision letter from one of the editors. Her suggestions and comments really helped. I don't know if I will end up going with TWRP but I really appreciated the editor's comments.

I will echo the "not for the cash" comment. I'm also published with them, and yes, they were a good small press to start with, but I haven't been impressed with sales (my book e-released in Nov 07 and releases in print at the end of this month). I'm also published with a different e-pub, and sales and marketing there have been much better/more aggressive.

Also, my e-royalties are 30% with TWRP but 40% with my other publisher.

I have friends who adore TWRP. For me, it was a good place to get some editing and publishing experience, but I won't probably submit there again.

Does anyone know what sales are like with this pub? Thanks.

para said:

Does anyone know what sales are like with this pub? Thanks.

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Not personally, but EREC has them on their sales chart at an average of 17 copies sold in the first month, and 18 copies sold to date.

http://www.erecsite.com/SALES.html

I could do with some updates on that data (hint, hint)

jennontheisland said:

Not personally, but EREC has them on their sales chart at an average of 17 copies sold in the first month, and 18 copies sold to date.

http://www.erecsite.com/SALES.html

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Thanks. Seems a little on the low side. I suppose their site must not get a lot of hits.

TWRP is my publisher and I haven't been unhappy with them. The publishers are nice people. They depend on e-sales to keep the business profitable (which I think it is? I have no clue). Books come out in trade paper, but that's not their focus. They don't push paper, they concentrate on ebook sales.

My romantic suspense novel was among their roll-out titles back in 2006. I got really awesome reviews, OMG! Five stars, cupids, kisses, flowers, whatever, and recommended reads, but sales? Meh. The publishers depend on their authors to do all the leg work, which I suppose is fair. They don't make it a secret that it's expected. I just know that I'm done with ebooks for now. Not much return for all the effort. I'd rather write books. I'll trunk a book before going epub again, but that's just me. I know that most epublished authors are thrilled with their experience and adore the online self-promo stuff. I simply don't have the enthusiasm to do what's necessary to make an ebook sale.

veinglory said:

I could do with some updates on that data (hint, hint)

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Veinglory, are you looking for erotic only (Scarlet Rose line) or all WRP lines?

My CP just got her first quarter sales report. Her book was #2 on the best seller list for most of the week it was released. Anyone who wants numbers can PM me.

So what is the overall impression of this e-pub? Are they a thumbs up or thumbs down?

Thanks.

madmumbler said:

So what is the overall impression of this e-pub? Are they a thumbs up or thumbs down?

Thanks.

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Hi, madmumbler and welcome!

I have two books with them. One is scheduled for release in December and the other won't be until 2009. TWRP is legitimate and the staff is very friendly. As been stated above, the bulk of their sales comes from e-books. They're still relatively new--2 years as of last month--so, they have a ways to go before they reach Ellora's Cave and Samhain's success status.

In short, you probably won't make a lot of money from TWRP. But if you're okay with that and understand that going in, they're a good group to work with. Hope this helps!

Sonarbabe said:

They're still relatively new--2 years as of last month--so, they have a ways to go before they reach Ellora's Cave and Samhain's success status.

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Samhain is actually a relatively new press particularly in comparison to Elloras cave. They have been in business since Nov 2005. Which is a only seven months longer than TWRP.

Will TWRP have reached Samhain's success status by the end of this year?