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Thread: Tiger Publications

  1. #1
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
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    Tiger Publications

    Has anyone heard about Tiger Publications? I just received a contract offer and would like some info if anyone's heard of them. Thanks, Steve

  2. #2
    Tired and Disillusioned Momento Mori's Avatar
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    Hi, Steve and welcome to AW.

    Are you talking about this Tiger Publications?

    There's no entry on P&E and their website says that they pay advances:

    Tiger Publications website:
    Our advances range from $500 to $5,000. Our royalties are 7% to 10% on the cover price of book.
    They also say they can make their books available in bookstores, which is usually a good sign (although I can't comment on their distributor and the best way to check is to go into a local bookstore and see if you can find their books on the shelves):

    Tiger Publications website:
    Tiger Publications will promote its titles both online and ads in genre related magazines and periodicals. Our titles will be available both online and in bookstores through our national distributor, Biblio Distribution.
    I'd be concerned about the fact that they accept any type of manuscript:

    Tiger Publications website:
    We have no word count, or genre restrictions.
    As I understand it, small publishers tend to do best when they specialize in particular genres or markets, although that in itself isn't damning.

    MM

  3. #3
    Super Browser triceretops's Avatar
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    Seems like a new startup, with some very talented and professional background with their editing/art staff. Lot's of real experience in the major trades. Degrees up the yang and OJT at the big houses. Very early to tell, seems their first book line is scheduled for later this year.

    Tri

  4. #4
    Writer Beware Goddess Absolute Sage victoriastrauss's Avatar
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    At least one of Tiger's editors, Elizabeth Barrett, looks to have genuine publishing industry experience.

    The fact that Tiger pays advances is good, and the Biblio connection sounds promising. They also don't seem to be committing the inexperienced publisher's error of trying to rush out too many books at once: they appear to be limiting themselves to a smallish list, which is good. To date, though, they've only published one book, which came out in June 2007. Given the frequency with which micropresses crash and burn, I think that writers would be wise to hold off on submissions at least until Tiger has proved it can release and distribute its spring and summer list.

    - Victoria
    Last edited by victoriastrauss; 01-10-2008 at 11:25 PM.

  5. #5
    Brian Boru brianm's Avatar
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    I'm not sure if this means anything, but one of their editors, Lea Schizas, has her first book coming out with Living Waters Publishing and her “awesome” new agent is… Aidana WillowRaven.

    http://leaschizaseditor.com/

    January 2008- Got myself an awesome agent: Aidana WillowRaven. Aidana helped to seal a deal for a series of children's picture books with Living Waters Publishing.
    Here’s a link to the thread about WillowRaven and one to Living Waters.

    http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/...ad.php?t=88569

    http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/...ers+Publishing

    Two of their authors, Sloan St. James and Michael Brett Hood, were both with Baycrest Books, which doesn’t appear to be doing anything. St. James’ book published by Baycrest in 2004, The Dark Plain, is being reprinted by Tiger for release in late 2008.

    Link to thread about Baycrerst is here.

    http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/...Baycrest+Books

    Coincidence that they both went to this new publisher at the same time? Probably. Is Tiger the new Baycrest? Probably not. However, I think Victoria has given some sage advice in recommending a wait and see attitude.
    Last edited by brianm; 01-11-2008 at 01:07 AM.
    "This is one race of people for whom psychoanalysis is of no use whatsoever." Sigmund Freud (about the Irish)

    "Opera singers have resonance where their brains ought to be." Anna Russell

  6. #6
    practical experience, FTW kiwiauthor's Avatar
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    ... would they have been able to weasel their way in with a distributor like Biblio if they were 'dodgy'?

  7. #7
    Writer Beware Goddess Absolute Sage victoriastrauss's Avatar
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    Biblio was established specifically to serve small and micro-presses. It piggybacks on the back-office systems of NBN, which owns it, so warehousing, shipping, and ordering are the same as NBN's. However, from what I've heard from publishers, Biblio doesn't have the greatest reputation. My impression is that it's somewhere you might begin as a small press startup looking to establish distribution, but it isn't where you'd want to stay.

    So as I said, it's promising, and it shows that Tiger's ambitions are in the right place, but being picked up by Biblio is not equivalent to being picked up by NBN or IPG.

    I'd actually read somewhere that NBN was folding Biblio (which has downsized twice in the last couple of years, and as of September stopped signing new clients). But I can't remember where I saw it and I can't find any indication that anything like that is happening.

    - Victoria

  8. #8
    Brian Boru brianm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by victoriastrauss View Post
    I'd actually read somewhere that NBN was folding Biblio (which has downsized twice in the last couple of years, and as of September stopped signing new clients). But I can't remember where I saw it and I can't find any indication that anything like that is happening.

    - Victoria
    http://www.publishersweekly.com/article/CA6473073.html?q=biblio

    Biblio Distribution, the small press affiliate of National Book Network, has stopped signing new clients and will “substantially” cut its client list of 450 small presses over the next several years, Jed Lyons, president of NBN, said. Created in 2001 to help supply small press titles to Ingram, Biblio at one point had approximately 900 clients, although it had been shrinking its list over the last couple of years. “We decided to focus our growth on NBN,” Lyons said. He noted that conditions in the marketplace have changed dramatically since the launch of Biblio, including the entrance of Ingram itself into the distribution business.
    Lyons said the Biblio team, headed by Davida Breier, remains intact, and no changes are planned in the sales force which consists of commission and in-house reps. There are no plans to integrate Biblio clients into NBN, Lyons emphasized.
    "This is one race of people for whom psychoanalysis is of no use whatsoever." Sigmund Freud (about the Irish)

    "Opera singers have resonance where their brains ought to be." Anna Russell

  9. #9
    Brian Boru brianm's Avatar
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    Lyons said the Biblio team, headed by Davida Breier, remains intact, and no changes are planned in the sales force which consists of commission and in-house reps.
    But this is what is displayed on NBN’s site.

    Davida Breier, Marketing Director, oversees marketing programs including advertising, trade shows and sales conferences. Davida also writes the seasonal News Breaking Now client newsletter and is the Account Manager for several NBN publishers. Davida started with Biblio Distribution (NBN’s sister company) in 2003 as its Sales and Marketing Director.
    So it appears they are making changes and have moved Breier over to NBN.
    "This is one race of people for whom psychoanalysis is of no use whatsoever." Sigmund Freud (about the Irish)

    "Opera singers have resonance where their brains ought to be." Anna Russell

  10. #10
    practical experience, FTW kiwiauthor's Avatar
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    Victoria and briann, very helpful info as always, thanks guys.

    Anyone still a little soft on the difference between a wholesaler and distributor would do well to read the Biblio website, imho.

  11. #11
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
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    Thanks everyone, that was very helpful. I think I'll take a chance on them versus going the ebook route (my only other alternative at this point.)
    Steve

  12. #12
    practical experience, FTW kiwiauthor's Avatar
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    Best of luck, Steve. Let us all know how you get on.

  13. #13
    Working In A Coal Mine... Sonarbabe's Avatar
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    I received a form rejection from them recently, but that's about all I have to offer. The acquisitions editor, Margaret Esch, was very eager when asking for my full though.

    Best of luck, Steve!
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    Oooh! I have a website.

  14. #14
    practical experience, FTW kiwiauthor's Avatar
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    Sonarbabe, what did they ask to see? (Something you couldn't sub to Samhain I assume). They seem pretty damn wide in their submission guidelines.

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    The important thing to remember is that small presses invariably have smaller staffs, so we specialize in a particular genre. We do this because our editors are strongest in those areas and we know how to market to that particular audience.

    But even more importantly, buyers will balk at buying a 150,000 word count novel, so I'd be very leery of any small press who states that they have no limits on word count or genres. This tells me that they don't market their authors' titles. If they did, they'd find out tout d'suite that it's impossible to have contacts in every genre. More than likely, they simply hand their titles over to Biblio - who doesn't have a reputation for getting books sold to the stores.

  16. #16
    Writer Beware Goddess Absolute Sage victoriastrauss's Avatar
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    I was sure I'd seen a news item indicating that NBN was going to fold Biblio. As it turns out, it isn't folding it--it's selling it, to AtlasBooks, the distribution arm of BookMasters. From today's Publishers Lunch:
    NBN says that approximately 500 Biblio clients will stay with the transferred unit under the same terms and conditions. They say that "the sale and assignment is similar to the process followed by Perseus when it added 150 PGW clients through the assumption of PGW agreements." Meaning that Atlas is taking over the contracts and services for the Biblio clients, but not making cash payment to NBN for the unit. NBN head Jed Lyons notes to us that "unlike PGW clients who were paid less than what they were owed by PGW, we are going to pay the Biblio clients 100 percent of what they are owed. The contracts are being assigned and terms will be honored 'as is' by AtlasBooks. We will pay clients what we owe them in full and so will AtlasBooks when it begins billing."

    Lyons notes in the announcement, "Our decision to sell Biblio is the result of our desire to focus our time and resources on the sales representation and distribution of the larger NBN publishers."

    Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but this doesn't sound like good news for Biblio. My impression is that Atlas doesn't have a terrific reputation as a distributor. Certainly, it seems like a step down from NBN.

    Atlas also acquired many of BookWorld's clients when that small press distributor went out of business last year.

    - Victoria

  17. #17
    Brian Boru brianm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by victoriastrauss View Post
    I was sure I'd seen a news item indicating that NBN was going to fold Biblio. As it turns out, it isn't folding it--it's selling it, to AtlasBooks, the distribution arm of BookMasters. From today's Publishers Lunch:

    Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but this doesn't sound like good news for Biblio. My impression is that Atlas doesn't have a terrific reputation as a distributor. Certainly, it seems like a step down from NBN.

    Atlas also acquired many of BookWorld's clients when that small press distributor went out of business last year.

    - Victoria
    This is proof why these threads are so very important to writers and why Victoria's words of wisdom upstream should be taken to heart.

    Given the frequency with which micropresses crash and burn, I think that writers would be wise to hold off on submissions at least until Tiger has proved it can release and distribute its spring and summer list.
    Rushing to get your work published by the next new kid on the block is, IMHO, a big mistake. It's a bit like diving into a pool before checking to see if there's water in it.

    From one of their author’s websites, there’s a blog that includes Tiger’s acquisitions editor, Margaret Esch.

    http://magicalmusings.com/?p=1496#comments

    Here are some quotes.

    As you all know the cover is the first contact a reader has with an author. If the cover isn’t attracting attention that reader will go elsewhere.
    It’s Tiger’s belief that the author have total control over the design of the cover. They work directly with the artist. If they’re happy, we’re happy.
    Writers usually haven’t a clue what kind of cover helps to sell a book. It concerns me that Tiger leaves this important element completely in the hands of the author.

    Tiger has only been in the business for just over 1 year.
    The number of contracted authors will be showing up on our site, but at this time we have approximately 25 authors that have allowed Tiger to publish their books. Needless to say, we’re all thrilled.
    Not an extreme amount but they certainly have their work cut out for them to properly represent these authors and their books.
    "This is one race of people for whom psychoanalysis is of no use whatsoever." Sigmund Freud (about the Irish)

    "Opera singers have resonance where their brains ought to be." Anna Russell

  18. #18
    Overcoming the Darkness SageFury's Avatar
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    A big downside to starting out is not really knowing who or when the right time is to entrust in an agency. They can be overloaded and you wouldn't know without the right experience which is why I'm appreciating these forums more and more as I read through them =)

    It's interesting how many of you know so much about whats going on with these agencies and publishers. I'm jealous being such a noob and all =)
    Last edited by SageFury; 01-15-2008 at 10:26 PM.

  19. #19
    Writer Beware's Faithful Igor Richard White's Avatar
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    The number of contracted authors will be showing up on our site, but at this time we have approximately 25 authors that have allowed Tiger to publish their books. Needless to say, we’re all thrilled.
    (emphasis added by me)

    Does this strike anyone else as odd?

    I can't imagine Tor saying their authors "allowed Tor to publish their books".

    I can't imagine a publisher sounding subservient to their authors . . . well, a vanity press might or a printer for self-publishers might, but not a publisher who's acutally publishing books to make money by selling them to the public.

    Wouldn't a commercial publisher would say, "We have selected 25 authors to publish"?

    Just something to think about.

  20. #20
    Writer Beware Goddess Absolute Sage victoriastrauss's Avatar
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    I agree it's odd, Richard, but I suspect they're simply trying to present themselves as author-friendly--a warm small publisher in a cold megacorporate world.

    The Biblio thing is bad luck for Tiger--I would imagine that they, as well as other small presses distributed by Biblio, must be worried and alarmed right now.

    - Victoria

  21. #21
    Writer Beware's Faithful Igor Richard White's Avatar
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    Perhaps, Victoria.

    And as a smaller company, they may be going that little extra to provide personalized service to their clients. I know that's how the mom and pop stores survive in a Wal-Mart world. A homesy, "ah shucks", humility is not a bad thing, as long as it's not faked. (The preceeding sentence is not about Tiger, just businesses in general.)

    Then again, I tend to be a tad more cynical than the average person. Maybe it's the analytical training I had in the Army, but I tend to focus more on the incongruities than the standard repsonses. It's little things like that that set off the "Bat-signal" for me.

    And I totally agree on the Biblo situation. It sounds like a whole bunch of people just drew the short stick there.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by victoriastrauss View Post
    this doesn't sound like good news for Biblio. My impression is that Atlas doesn't have a terrific reputation as a distributor. Certainly, it seems like a step down from NBN.
    You are correct, Victoria. Atlas' reputation is much the same as Biblio's - those who can't get in with a good distributor sign with these guys. What makes this even more interesting is that they'll be "distributing" for over 1300 publishers.

    The Biblio thing is bad luck for Tiger--I would imagine that they, as well as other small presses distributed by Biblio, must be worried and alarmed right now.
    I doubt that, Victoria. People go with Biblio because they'll pretty much take anyone, and they don't charge up front money. That's why your POD's are invariably signed up with Biblio - it's that whole money issue again.

    Publishers come under some very close scrutiny when interviewing with a distributor. They look at your titles for signs that they're marketable, good quality, well-written. They go over your business plan (are you POD - meaning do you do print runs), finances, sales history, lineup and most importantly, your marketing strategy. They do this because their sales teams pitch the titles to the genre buyers based on that strategy. If you don't have a well thought-out plan, you won't be offered a contract.
    Last edited by priceless1; 01-16-2008 at 07:16 PM.

  23. #23
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
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    Tiger

    I just received an email from Scott Parus, the CEO of Tiger Publications. Here's his quote:
    Just wanted to keep you informed as to what's going on with Tiger. We
    no longer have Biblio Distributions as our distributor. We now have
    Baker & Taylor. As you all may know they are one of the larger ones in
    the industry. This will give your titles a far greater exposure.

    Regards,
    Scott

    So, I'm feeling better.
    Steve

  24. #24
    Brian Boru brianm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve_hendry View Post
    I just received an email from Scott Parus, the CEO of Tiger Publications. Here's his quote:

    Just wanted to keep you informed as to what's going on with Tiger. We

    no longer have Biblio Distributions as our distributor. We now have

    Baker & Taylor. As you all may know they are one of the larger ones in

    the industry. This will give your titles a far greater exposure.



    Regards,

    Scott



    So, I'm feeling better.

    Steve


    Steve,

    He's basically telling you they don't have a distributor.

    Baker & Taylor wholesales books for most, if not all, of the POD houses and vanity presses, including Publish America. If Tiger doesn't have their own sales team and distributor, I doubt your book will find shelf placement.

    Good luck.
    "This is one race of people for whom psychoanalysis is of no use whatsoever." Sigmund Freud (about the Irish)

    "Opera singers have resonance where their brains ought to be." Anna Russell

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve_hendry View Post
    I just received an email from Scott Parus, the CEO of Tiger Publications. Here's his quote:
    Just wanted to keep you informed as to what's going on with Tiger. We
    no longer have Biblio Distributions as our distributor. We now have
    Baker & Taylor. As you all may know they are one of the larger ones in
    the industry. This will give your titles a far greater exposure.

    Regards,
    Scott

    So, I'm feeling better.
    Steve
    Steve, this is achingly misleading. In truth, your titles will have just as much "exposure" had they stuck with Biblio - meaning that you'll be listed in the online databases. B&T is a wholesaler/distributor that stores order from. They don't have a sales team that physically pitches titles to the genre buyers.

    Just to make things a bit clearer, B&T is free, meaning they don't charge publishers to list their titles. Ingram does. It used to be $55/title. I don't know what it is anymore since our distributor takes care of those things. But this is why you'll find many POD/vanity presses only list their titles with B&T. This isn't a plus - it's a sign they don't have much money.
    Last edited by priceless1; 01-17-2008 at 01:58 AM.

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