WL Children's Agency / Children's Literary Agency

James D. Macdonald said:

http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004772.html

Children's Literary Agency/New York Literary Agency/Christian Literary Agency/Stylus Literary Agency have never sold a book in their lives.

They didn't even sell Peter Parente's book: He self-published.

Robert Fletcher, their head honcho, is a convicted swindler.

Tell you what -- if you insist that the only way to know is to find out for yourself, have at it. Keep careful records. They'll come in handy at Fletcher's next trial.

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Hunterwoman75,

Take these quoted words, hold them dear, and then run--don't walk--from Children's Lit. Run, I tell ya. Google them. . . see what comes up. Nothing nice. Nothing good. Nothing in the sales department. Then, go to the bookstore and read the acknowledgements sections of children's books--those from small and large presses. Write down a few of the names, and see where that leads you--to honorable agents.

Don't mean to sound harsh, but I would hate for you to get taken (they can also take you with claim to the mss, even if you don't drop a dime thier way). Also, I would hate for AW to have to start a "Neverending Stylus/Children's Lit/Bobby Fletcher" thread.

A.

slightly off-topic

Hunterwoman, does your book have a Canadian theme or setting?
Have you looked at Canadian small presses such as Raincoast (http://www.raincoast.com/publishing/submissions.html) or Thistledown (http://www.thistledown.sk.ca/subguides.html)? Both publish YA fiction. Neither seem to require an agent.
-Barbara

Run Hunterwoman, run run as fast as you can. Stay away from that Fletcher man.


There's no two ways about it....he's bad news, so is his agency. I almost signed with him too, but thankfully, i checked this site out, and they directed me to other sites about Mr Robert Fletcher and ST Literary Agency. (or whatever the hell they call themselves these days.) One other thing to think about...if his agency was legit, why all the name changes? If it looks too good to be true...it is. Sorry.

RobertF said:

April 15, 2005
VIA CERTIFIED MAIL

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The first thing an attorney does in these situations is advise the client not to respond directly to the other party. All communication should go through the attorney.

Woo hoo! A list of more books allegedly sold by Children's Literary Agency!

Some books we've sold are: The Worry Stone and Fiddlin' Sam, for Marianna Dengler. Gift of the Dove and a four-book series, Tales From the Bayou, for Betty Hager. Twin Pickle, for Ann Doro.

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This comes from http://www.writers.net/forum/read.php?f=10&i=125162&t=125097

Well, let's see what we've got:

The Worry Stone by Marianna Dengler, Rising Moon Books, 1996
Fiddlin' Sam by Marianna Dengler, Rising Moon Books, 1999

Gift of the Dove by Betty Hager, Zondervan, 1991
Old Jake and the Pirates Treasure (Tales from the Bayou #1) by Betty Hager, Zondervan, 1994
Marcie and the Shrimp Boat Adventure (Tales from the Bayou #2) by Betty Hager, Zondervan, 1994
Miss Tilly and the Haunted Mansion (Tales from the Bayou #3) by Betty Hager, Zondervan, 1994
Marcy and the Monster of the Bayou (Tales from the Bayou #4) by Betty Hager, Zondervan, 1994

Twin Pickle by Ann Doro, Henry Holt and Company, 1996

Short Answer:

Those books were all published long before Children's Literary Agency was founded. All but one were published before Sydra Techniques was founded.

It looks very much as if Children's Literary Agency had nothing to do with selling any of them.

Hmmm, this sounds like something the FTC would be interested in.

James D. Macdonald said:

Woo hoo! A list of more books allegedly sold by Children's Literary Agency! ...

The Worry Stone by Marianna Dengler, Rising Moon Books, 1996
Fiddlin' Sam by Marianna Dengler, Rising Moon Books, 1999

Gift of the Dove by Betty Hager, Zondervan, 1991
Old Jake and the Pirates Treasure (Tales from the Bayou #1) by Betty Hager, Zondervan, 1994
Marcie and the Shrimp Boat Adventure (Tales from the Bayou #2) by Betty Hager, Zondervan, 1994
Miss Tilly and the Haunted Mansion (Tales from the Bayou #3) by Betty Hager, Zondervan, 1994
Marcy and the Monster of the Bayou (Tales from the Bayou #4) by Betty Hager, Zondervan, 1994

Twin Pickle by Ann Doro, Henry Holt and Company, 1996

Short Answer:

Those books were all published long before Children's Literary Agency was founded. All but one were published before Sydra Techniques was founded. It looks very much as if Children's Literary Agency had nothing to do with selling any of them.

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They seem to be operating on the assumption that taking on a client with prior publishing credits means you can list that client's backlist titles as your own agency's sales.

They're wrong, of course.

Do we know if Marianna Dengler and Betty Hager have signed with Children's Literary Agency? It's not impossible -- being a writer doesn't protect you from making a poor decision.

Ann Doro, of course, is a pseudonym of Dorothy Walker, CLA's figurehead president.

victoriastrauss said:

Most authors probably won't respond to a question like this--I know I don't--for fear that the person will then contact the agent and say the author recommended them.

- Victoria

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What I do is google the "author's name literary agent". It usually turns up the agent's name.

just a thought

James D. Macdonald said:

Short Answer:

Those books were all published long before Children's Literary Agency was founded. All but one were published before Sydra Techniques was founded.

It looks very much as if Children's Literary Agency had nothing to do with selling any of them.

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Does this mean that after signing on with Children's Literary Agency, previously successful authors are no longer able to sell their work?
Just asking.
-Barbara

batgirl said:

Does this mean that after signing on with Children's Literary Agency, previously successful authors are no longer able to sell their work?
Just asking.
-Barbara

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I don't even know if they've written anything else. But since Fletcher doesn't actually submit manuscripts for the most part, I'm sure they can't sell anything else with him "representing" them.

A bad agent is worse than no agent.

Children's Literary Agency

Emma,

I haven't worked with them but I am also trying to get information. I spoke to a local agency and they warned me against working with anyone who wants money to look at your manuscript. He said reputable agents will read the manuscript themselves and if necessary get in-house assistance.

He did however recommend some reading: The Complete Idiots Guide to Publishing Children's Books, Guide to Literary Agents 2005, and Children's Writer's and Illustrator's Market. They will have lists of children's literary agents and general information we need to know for the market.

As of August or September 2005, a new member has been added to this lovely group: The Poets Literary Agency.

Writer Beware now has considerable documentation not just on Stylus Literary and Children's Literary, but on New York Literary and Christian Literary. The contracts used by all these agencies vary in small details, but are substantially similar. The accompanying materials are identical. All refer clients to the same editing service, Writers Literary, a so-called "sister" company run by a former "agent" with Stylus.

We don't yet have documentation on Poets Literary, but we're sure we soon will. Sigh.

And no, none of these agencies has yet sold a book...

- Victoria

I have a question

Just want someone to explain to me where the scam is in all of this?

Lets say there have been no reading fees what so ever. which there hasn't been.

THe only fees were a legit critique and editing that was chosen by the writer.

The critique and editing were done professionally.


I am just trying to figure out where the scam is and where does the CLA get their money from if this is a scam.

So i see someone said that they get money from the fees form the critique and editing company because they are the same. Ok so they received 39 dollars for the critque and 99 dollars for the editing. Wow that is a lot of money to base a business on. Great SCAM!!!!!!

Come on and tell me where the real scam is, i just want to know.

Max,

If the writer went and picked a truly independant agency for the critique, you're right, the scammers would not make any money off that. Most, however, appear to go with the "sister company" directly run by The Literary Agency Group. So Robert Fletcher and company pocket the critique fees.

Ok, so you'd have to churn out a dozen or so of those a week to make a good living. Maybe they do pull in enough suckers to keep that up, what with all their subsidiaries. Maybe they don't. A couple of those a month might not be enough to live on, if they have a shortage of victims. So? Scamming isn't always a full-time job, and running a part-time scam can supliment what you get at your day job with minimal effort. What unscrupulous crook would turn down a chance to make a hundred bucks with just a few minutes' work?

Often, though, they don't stop there. One author reported that they'd asked for $70 or so for website hosting - for a small template page that can be made in a few minutes, not something like, say, Jenna's homepage. Another author reported that they'd asked around $2,000 for editing services. So you can pay a lot more than just the initial price of entry.

me again

Ok 2 responses and still have no good responses. I am looking for someone who has been scammed by CLA, where are they. It is always someone else or this person here, but never the person.

Look at it from this point of view. If for some reason the scam is they don't sell your work, but in the contract is states you can pull from the Agency when they don't sell your work after 90 days, so where again is the scam.

If paying 138 dollars for a damn good critique and very good editing for the book that really needed fine tuning and that is the scam then damn I got scamed.

Getting what i paid for the last time i looked was not a scam.

So i am still looking for someone to step up and please show me the scam.

They claim to be a literary agency, that is, that they have the ability to sell your book to a publisher.

So far, they have never sold a book to a publisher. That's advertising that they can do something that they have no practical ability to deliver.

Is the critique any good? I don't know. We do know that the folks who give the critiques aren't required to even read your entire manuscript -- just give you a list of common errors.

We know that they'll string you along as far as you want to go, taking money every step of the way, but never getting you to publication. Is that fraud? You tell me.

Sure, you can edit and critique and do whatever -- but if at the end of the process, after paying as much as you're willing to pay, you still aren't published, that's a scam.

I smell a troll.

Ok

well the way I see it and what i have seen so far is this:

If all is true and it works out to them not selling my book to a publisher, than I will come to accept it.

On the other hand, through this process i had a critique done and my book professionally edited, in which it needed. I am very happy with the results.

With that said, those will be the only fees I will be paying because I chose to pay those fees on my own, i was not forced by CLA.

SO all in all if this does not work out i will have paid 138 dollars for services rendered to me in which i was very pleased with, and so I will move on to the next company to see who is interested. That is all I am saying.

Sir, I would like to sell you a magic amulet that will protect you from heffalump attacks. It looks like an ordinary pebble, but really it's magic.

When you move on to the next company (and you will -- none of Bobby Fletcher's agencies have ever sold a book nor will you be the first), please don't pay that new company anything. Otherwise you'll just have moved from one scammer to the next.

that is the response i expected

You see that is what i been waiting for, a response that has no intelligence behind it what so ever.

I have been sitting here reading these posts for months and finally i just got tired of reading this junk all of the time.

I came on here to ask a simple question and still have had no responses to my question. SHOW ME THE SCAM?

To scam someone is to take their money for nothing in return.

That has not happended and nor will it.

To the last response, once again that is the junk i see all of the time on here, come on give me some information that can help me, not wise cracks

Last post

my last post was not intended for you Mr. Macdonald.

I understand what you are saying and will take precautions if their is a next time.