I went further than that.
How much of what was posted in the Curious Cave article was told to Jane Litte (voluntary disclosure) vs. Jen Frederick (involuntary disclosure)
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I went further than that.
How much of what was posted in the Curious Cave article was told to Jane Litte (voluntary disclosure) vs. Jen Frederick (involuntary disclosure)
Ok, I just read that entire thread up to the closure notice.
Wow. And then...ambivalence. It's pretty clear to me that the Jane/Jan controversy is a separate issue to the Dear Author/Ellora's Cave controversy. They are linked only as far as Tina Engler's lawyers can use them to discredit the Dear Author allegations against Ellora's Cave.
I've made my position clear about EC, no need to go over it.
On Jane's decision to publish under a pen-name: that was her business, but I am a bit troubled by her befriending people as Jen when they'd unfriended her as Jane. I have no idea whether she actually did use her industry relationships to advance her writing career. I think she should have disclosed the pen name earlier in the process. It would have created an interesting discussion. Joining author loops under pen-name: not good, not without disclosure.
I am not a famous blogger known for my acerbic takedowns. I'm just a small time artist, writer, and blogger. In 2012 I became involved in a legal situation I cannot detail further, but which had some parallels to the DA/EC case. At the same time, my debut novel was being published by an erotic romance publisher. Up to that point, I had wanted to keep my real identity separate from my writing identity. My legal case forced me to choose between privacy and blunt honesty. Recognizing I already had very little privacy as an author, I chose to publicly link all my identities.
Yes, I do get some trolls and stalkers. I have lost some job opportunities. But people who like my art can find my writing, and vice versa. So far, it's been a good decision.
Wow. And then...ambivalence. It's pretty clear to me that the Jane/Jan controversy is a separate issue to the Dear Author/Ellora's Cave controversy. They are linked only as far as Tina Engler's lawyers can use them to discredit the Dear Author allegations against Ellora's Cave.
I've made my position clear about EC, no need to go over it.
On Jane's decision to publish under a pen-name: that was her business, but I am a bit troubled by her befriending people as Jen when they'd unfriended her as Jane. I have no idea whether she actually did use her industry relationships to advance her writing career. I think she should have disclosed the pen name earlier in the process. It would have created an interesting discussion. Joining author loops under pen-name: not good, not without disclosure.
I am not a famous blogger known for my acerbic takedowns. I'm just a small time artist, writer, and blogger. In 2012 I became involved in a legal situation I cannot detail further, but which had some parallels to the DA/EC case. At the same time, my debut novel was being published by an erotic romance publisher. Up to that point, I had wanted to keep my real identity separate from my writing identity. My legal case forced me to choose between privacy and blunt honesty. Recognizing I already had very little privacy as an author, I chose to publicly link all my identities.
Yes, I do get some trolls and stalkers. I have lost some job opportunities. But people who like my art can find my writing, and vice versa. So far, it's been a good decision.
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The EC situation is totally different and separate from the DA issue.
If authors aren't getting paid for their books it doesn't matter a whit what DA is doing. She's not employed by EC or cutting royalty checks.
If EC isn't paying their authors and is having a meltdown that has nothing to do with the DA blog. The fact that some are trying to combine the two to discredit whoever and whatever says a lot about the legitimacy of the authors' concerns. DA isn't involved in EC's finances in any way or shape so...
JMO YMMV.
If authors aren't getting paid for their books it doesn't matter a whit what DA is doing. She's not employed by EC or cutting royalty checks.
If EC isn't paying their authors and is having a meltdown that has nothing to do with the DA blog. The fact that some are trying to combine the two to discredit whoever and whatever says a lot about the legitimacy of the authors' concerns. DA isn't involved in EC's finances in any way or shape so...
JMO YMMV.
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It's going to matter to EC authors or ex-authors if things they said on private author loops are suddenly discoverable because they were saying them in front of one of the parties to the dispute.
The Jane/Jen shenanigans don't make EC's behaviour any less egregious or the lawsuit any less offensive. But that doesn't mean there are NO connections between the two situation.
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I would say it can certainly complicate the issue, too.
Personally, I'm not sure what to think. Authors not getting paid? Pretty solid opinion on that. But can this hurt Jane/Jen's credibility?
I should be writing, too, but I'll duck back in to add this: every single thing we say online is 'discoverable'. There is no 'safe space' on the open Internet. Closed loop or passworded group, doesn't matter. The only way you can separate your persona from reality is by careful use of tor browsers, social engineering, and sticking to the dark web. Most of us leave too many clues in our gravatars, sig lines, links, and word choices, even when we post anonymously.
Or we can choose not to participate in a discussion at all.
Once we do, our opinions and information have at least the potential to be used as evidence.
Or we can choose not to participate in a discussion at all.
Once we do, our opinions and information have at least the potential to be used as evidence.
It's not totally separate; disclosure became necessary because of the depositions she'd had in the case a couple of days before.
She may also have put people's confidences on the line because she was on lists as Jen Frederick where the EC situation may have been discussed more openly than she'd have had access to as Jane Litte. (I have heard claims that this is true, but I'm not on those private loops, so I don't know the details.)
I agree completely with this part, though.
Regardless of the ethical quandaries of Jen Frederick's participation in private loops, I unreservedly support Jane Litte's defense in her case against Ellora's Cave.
I believe she was trying to help out the EC authors, and at what turns out to be at great cost for her.
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All that I can think of when looking at that name, is the hilarious and dark Britcom 'Black Books', about the surliest bookshop owner in Britain.
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I don't really understand - well, I've never really understood the combination of "self-publisher" and "company" - seems like a contradiction in terms. But in this case, I skimmed the contract, and I don't see any mention of BoBB doing anything at all for the books.
Does anyone have any experience with other self-publishing companies? (still seems like an oxymoron to me). Is this contract typical?
And how do the royalties work? "5.1) If the Work is priced at $1.99 or less, the royalty is 75% of the price of each unit sold" - this makes it sound like somehow the author would be getting 75% of the cover price? I mean, it doesn't say "net" or anything...
But how could that possibly work? Amazon only gives 33% for books at that price, right? Somehow I don't think Jaid is chipping in for the other 52% out of her pocket...
I don't know. I mean, obviously it's pretty dodgy to start another company when your former company is/is believed to be falling apart, but beyond that, do the specifics of this business make any sense?
Does anyone have any experience with other self-publishing companies? (still seems like an oxymoron to me). Is this contract typical?
And how do the royalties work? "5.1) If the Work is priced at $1.99 or less, the royalty is 75% of the price of each unit sold" - this makes it sound like somehow the author would be getting 75% of the cover price? I mean, it doesn't say "net" or anything...
But how could that possibly work? Amazon only gives 33% for books at that price, right? Somehow I don't think Jaid is chipping in for the other 52% out of her pocket...
I don't know. I mean, obviously it's pretty dodgy to start another company when your former company is/is believed to be falling apart, but beyond that, do the specifics of this business make any sense?
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I know of several distribution businesses that handle getting self-pub on sales sites and collecting the pay for authors. generally, the fees are low and can either be paid as a small percentage of royalties or a one-time setup fee. It caters to authors who don't feel comfortable handling those aspects of the business. They are also great when groups want to put out a multi-author boxed set or anthology and want a third party to handle distributing shared royalties.
That said, I've never seen fees this high, regardless if that is net or gross, and I'm not sure who would want this particular business owner handling their payouts at this time.
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From the FAQ, it sounds like a self-serv retailer. But I only got this after reading it about four or five times.
Did I miss something or does this model depend on selling books only through the BOBB site? I didn't read anything about distribution through Amazon and other vendors. From my quick reading, an author sends BOBB a manuscript and cover, BOBB loads it onto their webstore, and BOBB takes a cut for doing essentially nothing except providing a storefront. Not that it would be that much money to begin with because who's going to buy from here as opposed to other vendors?
Or I could be confused, or wrong. I don't get this at all.
ETA: Yeah, it's just a vendor, not a self-publishing service. So why does the site say, "Self publish with us"?
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Now I'm really confused.
ETA: So according to the BOBB website, authors can list their books on Amazon, etc. as well as BOBB, which implies that BOBB is simply a vendor. If the author wants the books listed on Amazon or elsewhere, she still has to do that herself, as far as I can tell.
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Voirey- That company has been around since at least last August when she gave her 'my muse hates writing sex so I'm going to start my own publishing company' thing. Is that around the time when that thing with DA blew up?
--while looking for the comedy that she wrote I stumbled across this:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1814134.The_Obsession
I've never seen a romance where the author used a photo of themself as the cover. New trend?
--while looking for the comedy that she wrote I stumbled across this:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1814134.The_Obsession
I've never seen a romance where the author used a photo of themself as the cover. New trend?
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I remember there being talk and the company swearing it wasn't really happening. I hadn't seen any links until yesterday. My impression was that her muse thing was centered around the ... what was it, a book or screenplay?.. she'd done collaboratively. The DA post was mid-August. And the cover... I have no words there.
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I'm thinking none. But it's an extra income stream for her. At least potentially, if she can actually find some people to use the service.
- Victoria
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And back to the traditional EC issues - just got my latest EC royalty statement, and the format's a bit different. New font, slightly different layout, whatever.
More significantly, there's no mention of the dates the statement covers. I mean, there's a date OF the statement, and for once it's actually reasonable based on the date of the postmark - it's my April 1 statement, postmarked April 3, received April 10. Fair enough.
But there's no mention of what sales period the statement covers.Based on previous statements I could ASSUME it's for December 2014, but considering who I'm dealing with, I'd really like to have it spelled out, and it isn't.
So I thought I'd contact them to ask for clarification. My old editor, of course, is gone, so I can't go through her. So I went to the EC site to look for contact information. There's a link for "staff and editors" which sounds promising, except... when I click it, I get sent back to the EC home page. No staff list, no contact information.
So this post has two purposes. One, the standard WTF EC?!? Two, though - does anyone have an e-mail address for someone in EC management/bookkeeping/statement-making? Anyone?
More significantly, there's no mention of the dates the statement covers. I mean, there's a date OF the statement, and for once it's actually reasonable based on the date of the postmark - it's my April 1 statement, postmarked April 3, received April 10. Fair enough.
But there's no mention of what sales period the statement covers.Based on previous statements I could ASSUME it's for December 2014, but considering who I'm dealing with, I'd really like to have it spelled out, and it isn't.
So I thought I'd contact them to ask for clarification. My old editor, of course, is gone, so I can't go through her. So I went to the EC site to look for contact information. There's a link for "staff and editors" which sounds promising, except... when I click it, I get sent back to the EC home page. No staff list, no contact information.
So this post has two purposes. One, the standard WTF EC?!? Two, though - does anyone have an e-mail address for someone in EC management/bookkeeping/statement-making? Anyone?