Ellora's Cave Publishing, Inc.

Congrats on your offer, KE-writer!! That's awesome! I did receive an email yesterday from one of the acquiring editors confirming that my manuscript is "on her desk" to be read. So, now I just have to patiently wait and hope for the best!!! I thought it was very nice for her to personally email me and tell me that, I know how busy editors are.

Thanks for the input!

Good Luck, Dream Weaver! I think your chances look pretty good. I believe I had a wait of 2 or 3 months after my first manuscript was "bumped up".

The waiting is the hard part!

Thanks, Evelyn! The next day (mid week last week) I did get a personal email from the acquiring editor saying she had my manuscript on her desk to read. I thought that was very nice of her, it's the first time I have received a message that wasn't just a form letter or something. So, I know she's got it, now I just have to wait and hope she likes it!

Good luck!!!! Make sure to post if you get a contract.

Just received a rejection Although it was a very polite one and the editor did give me some feedback which I really appreciate. My first two rejections with other publishers were just standard form letters. So, moving on. She did at least say she liked my premise and that she was on the fence at times while reading it but ultimately it just didn't come together for her. Oh well, I will keep pushing ahead. Overall I was pleased with Ellora's Cave and would definitely submit to them again - their response times are much faster than most and they were by far the most communicative.

Good luck to everyone!

Longtime lurker here. You could not pay me to ever submit to EC again. Some people have great success with them, but for me it's been immensely disappointing. Multiple editors went MIA, and sales are abysmal. I imagine if you write het featuring an alpha male, you could do quite well, but my books are outside the box, and EC is NOT the place for that (in my experience, at least). Had to change titles to make them painfully generic. Prices on books are too high, and there was zero promo support. (Not that most pubs give any these days beyond a few tweets.)

But the reason I'm posting here is because EC's royalties are in disarray. They're having issues with a new system, which is understandable. What's not understandable is having to wait more than six weeks to even get a response to a query about a major error in my royalty statement/check. I'm a very patient person, but that is just ridiculously unprofessional. There have been far too many red flags lately at EC, so just wanted to warn others.

I thought publishing with EC would be fantastic. I talked to other authors before I signed, and as I said, some do have good success there. Given EC's size, I expected robust sales and a smooth operation. I got anything but.

These author experiences are of concern, mostly because I'm trying to find an alternate from my current publisher. I've been writing Erotic Romance, and had hoped EC would have been that alternative.

ANaughtyMouse said:

Yet over the past year or so, we've both been badly disillusioned. Her area of contention is the royalties, as in when/if they arrive. This, I believe, is the case with most who are unhappy.

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Yes, the royalty situation has gotten really bad. To be fair, EC's contracts do only stipulate quarterly payments, but they usually pay monthly. So yes, they are only required to pay quarterly, and I do understand that implementing a new accounting system can cause a lot of glitches. I do believe that they are certainly trying to get checks out monthly. It's hard for the people who live on these royalties, and I feel for them. My EC earnings are so paltry that I couldn't if I tried, but suffice it to say that I would have lost my freaking mind if I'd been waiting six weeks for a response if I actually depended on this money to eat.

So yes, the dealbreaker for me is that they are clearly woefully understaffed in the royalty department. The lack of communication in response to author queries really leads to a feeling of distrust. Mistakes happen. But when authors start to feel there's a lack of transparency, it sows seeds of discontent, and that starts to snowball.

I have also heard that the turnover of editors is increasing, with more and more leaving. (That is anecdotal, though.) But in general, it seems like more and more people are increasingly unhappy, especially about royalties.

EC has a reputation of being a cornerstone of erotic romance as we know it, and that reputation is very attractive to many. Once upon a time, 'many' included myself. I was so enchanted by the idea of being an EC author, I don't think anything would've talked me out of submitting to them, or signing that contract...but my experience has been lousy.

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Yep. I was enchanted with the idea too. I'd been rejected by EC way back in the mid-2000s on my very first book. So when they came after me and wanted to work with me, I was flattered. As you said, they have that cornerstone rep, and I really expected great sales. I regret the choice to go with EC for these books so much.

Maddie, what about Loose Id? I've worked with them and had great experiences. I'd be happy to chat via PM if you want more details. And you never know, you might be one of the people who has a positive EC experience. But I can't recommend them based on my own, that's for sure.

BBCAuthor said:

Yes, the royalty situation has gotten really bad. ..... But in general, it seems like more and more people are increasingly unhappy, especially about royalties.

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This is one truth I've followed as a subcontractor (not to be confused with talent agent) of professional musicians -- you never mess with people's money. Period.

Issues with royalties is totally unacceptable, as is a lack of transparency, and places any publishing house in a bad light with present and potential authors.

EC Author

I've got books with EC, Samhain and Loose-Id. They are all great and they keep me in royalties. EC is my go-to for hot het with plot. I do a bit kinkier for LI, and less sex, more plot for Samhain.
The checks from all are pretty healthy. EC has been completely transparent about the recent royalty problems, engendered when they were installing a new system. Up until now, the payment system was completely discrete, not online or anything, so they could be sure it was secure, but with authors wanting money wired to their accounts, and with the continued growth of the company, they switched to a new system. Nobody I've heard of has had their contract violated by late payment. Contract says quarterly, many authors prefer monthly, so EC obliges.
I think if you find your place in EC, it can be very rewarding. Readers there like series, and they like hot. And predominantly het. From what I've heard the mainstream line isn't half as lucrative.
Editors aren't leaving, but EC is employing more. However the editors go through a vigorous testing process so it takes time.

Well, some editors are leaving--you argue why or if it is a net loss, but by multiple author accounts there has been some turnover recently.

There is also the issue of authors getting 1099s including amounts they have yet been paid, and strange delays between checks being cut and being mailed: multiple authors reporting this.

I got an email last month that my editor was leaving EC (and she's been the same one I've had there for years).

I have mixed feelings about them. My first ever release never sold well, so I asked for the rights back when I was allowed under my contract (last year). I waited out the six months and nada. I had to email several times and then went to the CEO about it. She told me they were very behind with rights revisions and a week later they finally got it taken care of (after yet another nudge from me). They had 6 months to address this. I shouldn't have had to start emailing them, demanding answers (and not even getting a response).

On the flip side...my second release with them earned me enough during the release month to qualify for RWA PAN status (and it wasn't even a full month of sales). So the potential is there to make good money. But that was a couple of years ago and sales dropped sharply after that. I've asked for the rights back to it too, but it'll be later this year before they'd revert back to me.

I, too, was giddy when I got accepted there. I loved my editor. She was tough, and she knew her shit. But I learned shortly after my first book was released that I couldn't afford to put all my eggs in their basket. They do not price their books competitively for this market. I make more at a small, practically unknown epub than I do with them. I, too, have had 1099 issues (never a good thing when the IRS contacts you).

I hope the accounting system issues will be resolved soon and editors aren't leaving because of turmoil within the company. I don't want to see them go under. I love a lot of their authors. That being said, I have no plans to submit more to them in the future. I made more $$$ in two weeks at my small epub in 2013 than I did all year last year at EC (and waaaaaay more self-pubbing).

Things could always change, but that's my stance right now. New manuscripts go to my agent, or I self pub them.

I just received my fastest rejection ever! Subbed last night around 8pm, got a form R this afternoon. So, if anybody ever wonders if EC standards are dropping, there's the answer. Off to drown in some vodka….

This crossed my inbox this morning: http://dearauthor.com/ebooks/digital-first-publishing-troubled-fortunes-digital-first-publishers/

A little more digging turned over some other troubling reports:

http://tristaannmichaels.blogspot.com/2014/03/author-bewareelloras-cave.html
http://www.eroticromancepublishers.com/2014/03/okay-so-about-elloras-cave.html
http://karenknowsbest.com/category/elloras-cave/

I've heard mixed things about them throughout the years, and had an editor once contact me in the past asking to submit to them. However, I'm seeing a very familiar and disturbing pattern emerge, one that we just saw play out with Silver Publishing.

Writer beware.

Ellora's Cave is on a much higher and longer trajectory than Silver IMHO. That is partly why they have lasted so long.

Ellora's Cave has a pattern of financial problems going back years. Things have always worked out in the past, and there's good reason to believe they will again, but any author submitting to them needs to bear in mind that sooner or later it might not.

I am not sure things have "worked out" so much as they have had the financing, momentum and early market share to keeping plowing on. IMHO "worked out" would mean the issues were satisfactorily resolved and there was a return to standard business practices. As one example, they used to be able to distribute to brick-and-mortar stores under standard terms, they lost that and have never got it back. They came up with "reasons" for this and continued on.

Does anyone have any experience recently in trying to get rights reverted from EC? I have three pitifully selling books with them that I'd love to get back. I need to check the numbers, but I'm 99% sure they have sold fewer than 100 copies in the past year, which according to the contract means I could get rights reverted. (At least that's how it reads to me.) Any tips on getting rights back would be greatly appreciated!

@ BBCAuthor, I have. I notified the contracts department and got a reply stating that if it qualified I'd be notified within the six months they had per my contract. BUT, I never got a reply (so by what they said, I didn't qualify, which I knew was wrong). I emailed them when the six months was up and didn't get a reply. Then I email Raelene and she replied that they were very short staffed handling all the revision requests and were way behind processing them. She told me they'd get me my revision within the week. A week later, I got my letter and the book was off the stores. I've requested another, so it'll be like August before the 6 months is up. Next time, I won't wait until the 6 months before I make contact (I'll start hitting them up a couple of weeks beforehand). Just mark your calendar after you submit your request and email them when it's getting close. I understand them being short staffed and they probably are inundated with revision requests...but if your book qualifies you shouldn't have a problem getting the rights back (with some possible nudging).

Thanks so much for sharing, Mandy! I really appreciate it.

Hey, all; I'm new in these parts, though I've been lurking as a reader on the forums for months. I decided to finally register last night, after reading through this thread. I subbed a quickie to Ellora's Cave back in the last part of winter, just before the most recent problems with payments started happening, and got word yesterday that they were interested in the story, and actually a three-book contract. I'm moving forward so that I can at least have a look at the contract; so far, the conversations I've had with the editor have been great and leave me hopeful. But I'm wondering if anyone can say if they're continuing to have problems with payments being received on time, or if the publisher has been more responsive to concerns lately.

I've received payments from them on time since the start of 2013 with the exception of one month when a check came a week later than usual (but that's still technically on time).

Then another month they somehow missed payment for a new release, but they sent it the following month with a note apologizing for the delay. (That was during the accounting system transition.)

I'm working on edits with a couple other publishers right now, but when that settles down, I'd have no problem submitting to EC again.

If EC gave Farrah Abraham (Teenage Mother Back Door Sex Tap chick) a big advance and hoped that her books would be the next big thing, they got royally fucked. The publication of Farrah's books by EC is being blocked by Vivid who is suing Farrah for breech of contract for exposing Vivid's trade secrets. Read below. I will say that as an author trying to get my rights back, I was mildly excited when EC announced they had a big huge star writing for them. When I found out it was Farrah I was way less than impressed. The woman is hardly what I would call a big star but is a big train wreck that I would not want associated with my books.

http://archive.sheboyganpress.com/V...ned-to-Keep-Quiet-About-Porn-Industry-in-Book

http://www.kdramastars.com/articles...to-expose-vivid-entertainment-in-new-book.htm

http://www.examiner.com/article/far...se-and-desist-letter-from-vivid-entertainment

EvolvingK said:

and actually a three-book contract.

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My personal perspective would be: maybe don't contract multiple books until you see how your sales and overall experience is with them. It is my impression that they are not the big sales leader that they used to be.