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[Agent] Cheryl T. Pillsbury

wordmonkey

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I don't see any mention of this yet on AW, though the Making Light blog comments mention it.

This doesn't mean a whole lot. Regardless of the way things went down after, this is dated a while back.

Anyone can do this. Doing a POD you can do this. You just write up your little piece, add a photo, give a local connection and an angle and ba-da-bing! Press Release.

If they have newsies are having a slow day, they might use it - busy day, probably not. And depending on how well you do it, how busy the "reporters" are, that kinda stuff, they might just use your entire piece, not even call you up.
 

jamiehall

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This doesn't mean a whole lot. Regardless of the way things went down after, this is dated a while back.

Anyone can do this. Doing a POD you can do this. You just write up your little piece, add a photo, give a local connection and an angle and ba-da-bing! Press Release.

If they have newsies are having a slow day, they might use it - busy day, probably not. And depending on how well you do it, how busy the "reporters" are, that kinda stuff, they might just use your entire piece, not even call you up.

Um, I wasn't trying to argue what it seems you think I'm trying to argue. The paper got fooled too, and if Mary/Lanaia doesn't come to them with a retraction before they hear it elsewhere, it may go badly for her.
 

agatha

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For heaven's sake. This is all getting so hugely out of proportion. Have a look at the context, people. One plagiarized chapter in a vanity-published book that fewer than 100 people will ever see. Everyone is behaving as if this is Nora Roberts and Janet Dailey all over again. This really is more equivalent to the kind of plagiarism that happens in fanfic. When was the last time the Internet was abuzz with indignation over that?

But what do I know. I only have actual documentation to extrapolate from.

- Victoria

So even though there is plagiarism, it's not as bad because less people would have seen it?

Because she's not a Janet Dailey, that makes the situation better?

If you're referring to fanfiction that builds on an author's characters, that's a different situation. If you mean fanfiction plagiarization, where someone's work is stolen and claimed as someone else's, I'm pretty sure that writers who have their work plagiarized feel wretched when they find out that their work has been plagiarized.

Just cause you're not Nora Roberts doesn't mean that you feel any less wretched when your work is plagiarized.

Lanaia claims that she has copy right of this work as her own. Can anyone confirm if that's true?
 
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agatha

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As I said on my blog, I think one reason that people are heaping so much abuse on Lanaia (who, I believe, has been disgracefully taken advantage of and doesn't deserve the beatdown she's receiving) is that the situation gives them the opportunity to say about her all the things they really think about scam victims and fake-published authors, but can't normally admit to for fear of seeming mean and elitist.

People do feel sorry for Lanaia and how she's been taken advantage of. My problems with this story have more to do with the online behavior than the issue of the scam. And the reaction in the aftermath (leaving the excerpt on the website, not posting an apology there). And given some of the comments out there, that's how a lot of people feel. Despite the scam issue and issues of who did what and with what intent, there is still the issue of plagiarism. And people, especially writers have strong feelings about plagiarism. I forget who said it, but it does feel like mind-rape.

If Lanaia Lee and Cheryl Pillsbury had reacted better, this whole situation would have played differently.

So Cheryl Pillsbury read through the book six times? And didn't catch the Alexander-Archimedes typo?
 

wordmonkey

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Um, I wasn't trying to argue what it seems you think I'm trying to argue. The paper got fooled too, and if Mary/Lanaia doesn't come to them with a retraction before they hear it elsewhere, it may go badly for her.

Didn't think you were tryng to argue a point. Rather pointing out how something like this can get to the newspaper. Was likely less a case that a newspaper was fooled per se, and more a case that the "news source" was eaither too busy, too lazy, too desperate to fill column-inches, or a combination thereof.

That was my only point here. :D
 

imagoodgurl4

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Here's what I've been wondering:

If Lanai's got other novels written, as well as poetry, why did she accept Hill's offer to ghostwrite her next book?
 

xhouseboy

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Here's what I've been wondering:

If Lanai's got other novels written, as well as poetry, why did she accept Hill's offer to ghostwrite her next book?

Who knows.

But according to the avaliable info, Hill was originally her agent, and tried to place her first book without success. He might then have convinced her to pay him for his ghostwriting services on the suggestion that she would stand a better chance of publication with a real 'pro' like him on board from the outset.

To understand all of this, I'd contend that one first has to realise what Hill is -- a lying, cheating, devious scumbag.
 

imagoodgurl4

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I totally understand he's a lying, cheating, devious scumbag. No question about that. It's just sickening to think of how charismatic he must be to convince someone to pay him to write a book for them so he can extract even more money. And then to plagiarize on top of it is like ordering a double cheeseburger at McDonald's...it's even worse for you.
 

Nangleator

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Wow.

Just imagine the job of selling plagiarized words to someone who actually wants to write a little...

You type out chapters 1 and 2 of what you think is an obscure book and hand them over. (Or you use a scanner with OCR software, if you're lazy. And I assume you're lazy.) Your customer is thrilled. She adds her own chapter 3 to "your" work, then you realize she has diverged too far from the real chapter 3. You have to guide her into writing the chapter as it should be, so any further "work" of yours is simply more copying.

Otherwise, you might actually have to write something.

As this procedure continues, how can the "writer" keep lying to herself that she has something to do with the unfolding story? When every effort of hers is molded into the shape the ghost writer wants?
 

Gillhoughly

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She might have felt is was "her" book the same way adoptive parents feel it's "their" child.

She might well have believed herself correct in saying she owned the "copy right" (sic). I have several work-for-hire novels copyrighted to another party. In the law's eyes that other party is the owner even though I wrote them. I doubt Hill will come forward to admit "t'was I who done the deed." He's got every reason to keep his head down.

If the slimeball's name is not on her "original" MS then she's only one available for prosecution if it comes to that.

What are the odds there is nothing on paper of their arrangement and it devolves into a she said-he-said situation? Prosecutors hate that sort of case.

She's been left holding the bag and Hill gets away to swindle more people.

Too bad they aren't doing some sort of sting operation on HIM, but the amount of money involved is too small to put him on any DA's event horizon. Only if a LOT of people he's ripped off start complaining is there a chance of hurting him.

Trouble is, most scam victims don't want to admit they were fooled or (the Cult of the PAer's comes to mind) cling to their belief that they're special and everyone else is wrongwrongwrong-stop-saying-those-mean-things-you-Blue-Meanies.

I feel sorry for her, but on the other hand she let him fool her TWICE.

If her dream was to become a famous writer, then she got it, just not the way she wanted.
 

JulieB

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Lanaia claims that she has copy right of this work as her own. Can anyone confirm if that's true?

If it's a work-for-hire, she would most likely have the copyright. In Victoria's WB post she quotes Hill as telling Lee in an e-mail message:

We had no contract binding anything, the work I did is now yours I give you full copyright consent here.

I'm not a lawyer, but the "no contract" bit does not sound good. Lee says she's kept lots of documentation, and that may help her cause. But then, that's for the folks who are more qualified than I to straighten out.
 

brianm

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I have to agree with Victoria that this is beginning to resemble the telephone game I played as a child. You whisper something in someone's ear and then that person whispers it to the next person. We all know the results by the time it gets to the last person.

I'm just as guilty of repeating what others have said in blogs that were not backed up with proof.

Victoria has facts presented to her by the writer in question, and I think she has a better understanding of what actually happened.

This is a thread about Cheryl Pillsbury and I feel we should stay more on topic. Certainly, this episode demonstrates the shortcomings of this "agent," but there are additional examples that illustrate why writers should avoid her like the plague. Not least of which is that she is a pay-to-play agent.

A thread was started in “Roundtable” specifically for discussing Miss Lee and the offending book. Perhaps further discussion about her should continue in that thread? Here’s a link.

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80325
 

necia phoenix

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She might have felt is was "her" book the same way adoptive parents feel it's "their" child.

She might well have believed herself correct in saying she owned the "copy right" (sic). I have several work-for-hire novels copyrighted to another party. In the law's eyes that other party is the owner even though I wrote them. I doubt Hill will come forward to admit "t'was I who done the deed." He's got every reason to keep his head down.

If the slimeball's name is not on her "original" MS then she's only one available for prosecution if it comes to that.

What are the odds there is nothing on paper of their arrangement and it devolves into a she said-he-said situation? Prosecutors hate that sort of case.

She's been left holding the bag and Hill gets away to swindle more people.

Too bad they aren't doing some sort of sting operation on HIM, but the amount of money involved is too small to put him on any DA's event horizon. Only if a LOT of people he's ripped off start complaining is there a chance of hurting him.

Trouble is, most scam victims don't want to admit they were fooled or (the Cult of the PAer's comes to mind) cling to their belief that they're special and everyone else is wrongwrongwrong-stop-saying-those-mean-things-you-Blue-Meanies.

I feel sorry for her, but on the other hand she let him fool her TWICE.

If her dream was to become a famous writer, then she got it, just not the way she wanted.

Victoria stated she has seen the emails and ms so in effect yes there is a trail to him. Go re-read Victoria's blong and read the comments.
 

Monkey

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Cheryl Pillsbury is an pay-to-play agent who gets her clients contracts with pay-to-play publishers that they easily could have found on their own. She can't write to save her life (much less a client's reputation). She's a SCAM.

There. Now we're back on topic. :)
 

absitinvidia

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it just gets better

Apparently Cheryl is now admitting that she used a ghostwriter for her own vanity published books (http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/009448.html#009448, post #312).

Also, she has a fan club for her Angus Grady books (Publish America, natch):

HERE YOU CAN JOIN IN AND LEARN OF HIS WORLD AND THE PEOPLE IN HIS LIFE.

YOU WILL RECEIVE:

A MEMBERSHIP CARD $20.00 PER YEAR

PENCILS, T-SHIRT, NEWSLETTER, AND INFO ON HIS FUTURE ADVENTURES

ALSO, MYSELF AND MY TEAM, WHEN AVAILABLE, WILL APPEAR AT YOUR LOCAL SCHOOL OR LIBRARY.


::headdesk::
 

victoriastrauss

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Just as many amateur publishers don't know the difference between rights and copyright, I suspect that many amateur writers don't know the difference between ghostwriters and editors.

- Victoria
 

absitinvidia

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Just as many amateur publishers don't know the difference between rights and copyright, I suspect that many amateur writers don't know the difference between ghostwriters and editors.

- Victoria

I had been wondering about that myself.

ETA: Although I suspect that editing comes very close to ghostwriting for writers of a certain ability.
 
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victoriastrauss

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In reading over your posts on Hill, the ones from 2006, I noticed you had mentioned a woman working with Hill back in the day. Now does this fit the pattern? This woman Cheryl, her agent, has a few strange ways of typing from her posts over at Making Light. Could there be some sort of connection between them?
Between the woman working with Hill and Cheryl Pilsbury? No. Remember, the Hill scam was located in Edinburgh, and the woman working with Hill, who called herself Claire Ashton, had either a British or Scottish accent (I forget which, but people did speak with someone claiming to be her). There's ample evidence that Cheryl is American.

- Victoria
 

AnneMarble

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Apparently Cheryl is now admitting that she used a ghostwriter for her own vanity published books (http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/009448.html#009448, post #312).
I wonder if she means the same thing by "ghostwriter," though. Surely there can't be that many people selling ghostwriting services to unpublished writers. Victoria would have heard about it by now, and AW would have lots of threads about it. I wonder if she means instead that she hired an editing service, or for that matter, maybe she had a critique partner.

Also, she has a fan club for her Angus Grady books (Publish America, natch):

HERE YOU CAN JOIN IN AND LEARN OF HIS WORLD AND THE PEOPLE IN HIS LIFE.

YOU WILL RECEIVE:

A MEMBERSHIP CARD $20.00 PER YEAR

If she sells one membership, she'll probably make more than she did on her royalties for the PA novel.
 

Monkey

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Have you seen Cheryl's writing?

I believe she used a ghost-writer. Her writing is really awful, and it goes far beyond typos. She mixes her metaphors in the strangest of ways...for instance, in the post that absitinvidia referenced, she says:
This horse issue is dead and I'm tired of repeating myself, the subject is closed, move on.

Now, PA doesn't care about typos or mixed metaphors, but I'm just sayin'...
 

absitinvidia

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So Cheryl Pillsbury read through the book six times? And didn't catch the Alexander-Archimedes typo?


Perhaps not, but at least one person did on one of the many forums to which Lanaia Lee posted the prologue back in July. Her response was: "editors, that's why I have editors lol"
 

wordmonkey

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Question:

What exactly would an "agent" earn from setting up a POD deal for an author?

I mean, I have an agent who sets me up a spanky deal, agent takes his percentage, passes me my nice advance. Book launches and my royalties come in, agent takes a cut, pass me my part.

POD, I paying to have my book published, then it comes to me and I try and sell said books to recoup my expenses and the agent does what? For what?

That is a serious question. 'Cos I can't make head nor tail of all this.

I am reminded of some advice I found some years ago and it popped back into my mind here. The advice - never try and sub your work to publishers claiming to be your own agent.

No idea if this is the case here, but my question above stands, if anyone can tell me. Thanks.
 

DamaNegra

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Agents who charge representation fees, obviously. They charge before a deal is make, then put a deal on a POD press when the money's already made so they won't have to make any effort. Simple.