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Light Sword Publishing / LSP Digital, LLC

JulieB

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Victoria,

That link cleared up some other questions I had not related to this thread. (The whole business with the 9000 on the bar code is now clear to me.)

Am I correct in sensing that some of the confusion comes with the fact that LS (a division of Ingram) does act as a distributor?
 

LordChess

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I still don't get the difference. Maybe I am dense.
 

Popeyesays

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I have not departed, I have been on several website where no matter what proof you give people they are going to believe what ever they want. I do have mountains of knowledge on this subject and I never run from a conversation. I just see no point in arguing with you. I simply gave you proof and you can take it the way you want. I agreed to disagree. This discussion is spinning and is already on the second page and everyone is still wanting to find fault in what I have stated even though I have showed proof.

So therefore what is the point in keep showing you proof when no matter what I do you are going to accuse me of being naive, when I am not. BTW I am not using Ingram or Baker & Taylor's copyrighted material to further myself and I documented where the information has come from. I broke no laws!

Have a good day!
Althy

Did you check out the real distributors I indicated? It would do your business well to get real distribution.

One of your authors notes on her website in the excerpt from her book's first chapter that the book can be ordered from the publisher or "IF you live near me you can come to one of my signings."

That means the book does not appear on store shelves, so it has no distribution.

I notice that the price for the books at Light Sword are rather high: $24.95 for a 360 page trade paper edition. The normal price from a commercial publisher would be $12.00 to $15.00.

Are you offering bookstores standard discounts? Are you offering them returnability?

With a cover price of $24.95 for a 360 page tradepaper novel, it might not matter if you offer those standard attractions.

Regards,
Scott
Scott
 

Popeyesays

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Lightning Source provides order fulfillment, I do not think it really provides distribution, in the usual sense.

Regards,
Scott
 

Althelyna

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I do not work for LSP and I really can not answer your questions. My information about publishing came from the classes I am taking and the classes I took seven years ago. I am not echoing anything from any publishers website.

I know what print on demand means. It means they only print the book when it is ordered. I understand the difference. I said some of my information may be dated. I never said that any of you are wrong in your information. I was giving the information I have asked from the company. Think what you want of LSP. I have no ties to them. I would have stuck up for any small press. That I thought was "trying" to do something good. Like I said they have only been in business for a year. I have only stated what I know of the company. I do not know anything else. I decided I did not want to work for them. So I have moved on. I never said that Light Source was a distributor. They are associated with Ingram but Ingram has added a lot of different programs for publishing company. Like I said I was researching the possibility of opening my own publishing company once. But also decided against it for many reasons one of which it would take my time away from my children and my own writing. I have added all links to my research. Thank you for the information.

Have a beautiful day,
Althy
 
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veinglory

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You most certainly indicated you thought we were wrong in our information. Now it seems rather the other way around.

Also print on demand is a technology. Typically it is used to produce short runs well in advance of any customer orders, so the book can be distributed.
 

Althelyna

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I do know that POD is a technology, my book is print on demand. I originally published my book only for my daughter and her bilingual class. So I went with a self-publisher. Now that my book has peeked the interest of some of the directors at the schools here in my city. I have been seeking a traditional publisher. I do have one looking at publishing my book. The publishing company specializes in bilingual books. But I do not want to jinx it so I will let you know what they decide. I am a member of Cambridge Who's who, Society of Children Book Writer's and Illustrators, I am currently attending the Institute of Children Literature and many writing groups. I am still learning and thank you for all of the links. I do know about writer's beware I have their link on my website. I will be adding this link as well. You all do have lots of information and I have enjoyed learning from you.

Best Wishes,
Althy
 
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CaoPaux

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victoriastrauss

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Am I correct in sensing that some of the confusion comes with the fact that LS (a division of Ingram) does act as a distributor?
I guess it could be confusing that one of the divisions of Ingram Book Group, which is a book wholesaler, is Ingram Publisher Services Inc., which provides small press distribution. I suspect that's one reason Althy thinks Ingram is a distributor.

But I think the basic confusion stems from the confusing nature of the book business itself, and the fact that it can be extremely difficult to find reliable information on the nuts and bolts of publishing. The distributor/wholesaler distinction is just one example of that. There's also the fact that many people use the term "wholesaler" and "distributor" interchangeably, which makes things even more confusing.
LordChess said:
I still don't get the difference.
Have a look at the link I provided in my previous message--it explains the difference pretty well. In a nutshell, a distributor provides all the services a wholesaler does, with the addition of a staff of sales representatives who are in direct contact with bookstore managers and buyers. A direct sales component is a vital part of the process of getting books into stores. Wholesalers don't provide it (unless, as with Ingram, they have a special division to do so).

Don't be fooled by a small publisher that tells you it has a marketing department or that it employs a marketing person. It's not the same.

- Victoria
 

Althelyna

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My publishing experience is not limited to my published work it has to do with me working with publishers. I am not drawing from my experience with my One book that is published. I stated that I am drawing off of the BUSINESS Classes I have taken in College. Not my published work. Anyway thank you for the information and I will contact the people at some of the publishing companies that I have contacts with and ask more questions. Thank you for the help. Especially you Victoria you have not bashed me but tried to understand where I am coming from. Thank you for that. Many blessings. I have nothing to do with the Manchester's Who's Who or whatever they are. I am a member of this one http://www.cambridgewhoswho.com/.

Wishing much Success,
Athey
 
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veinglory

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Extensive listing of marketing services that breaks down to sending you some bookmarks and a stand to put your book on during signing is also smoke and mirrors in my opinion, if the basic nature of the distribution your book will receive is not covered. Understand that most of books don't have mainstream distibution but the presses I submitted to made clear what they did and did not provide and I researched their sales figures in advance.

Classes are like publishers, most provide something of some value, but they all have some lapses and bias. It is great to pick up information from a range of formal and informal sources.
 

Popeyesays

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Althylena,

The term "traditional publisher" is invented by Publish America to try to convince people that they are a mainstream company.

Thye want you to think that "traditonal" means the same things as "commercial". It's not only mistaken, it's a bald-faced lie.

You want to seek commercial publication, or a commercial publishing house.

The problem is that you are basing your business on a model that considers "75" to be a meaningful average of sales of a book title.

Regards,

Scott
 

Althelyna

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I have nothing to do with Publish America, and my book is not published by them. Why you keep trying to associate me with them I have no clue. I have never even been on PA website nor do I plan to.

Althy
 

Popeyesays

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I have nothing to do with Publish America, and my book is not published by them. Why you keep trying to associate me with them I have no clue. I have never even been on PA website nor do I plan to.

Althy

Althy,

Re-read my post. Where did I say YOU used PA? Nowhere at all.

I said you said you are seeking a "traditional publisher" and there is no such thing as "traditional publishers".

Regards,
Scott
 

Althelyna

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I have heard that term from many people. I have been asked if I have been self published or published by a traditional publisher. I do not know where the term came from but since that is what have been asked I use the term.

Thank you for the information. I am moving on now. I have learned a great deal and I have a lot of wonderful links to add to my reading. I am crossing my fingers that this publishing company that has a good reputation and has been in business for a long while picks up my book. Again thank you for your time.

Althy
 

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Now I am really confused.

I don't understand how anyone could work for authors or publishers in what is said to be a marketing capacity, and yet not know how much of the business works. I realize it's a very complex & frustrating world, but I would think that someone who has had as much experience as Althy says she does would have a better grasp of things. Unless you've only worked for teeny little presses, I'd think you'd have more exposure to all the glorious complexities of the industry.
 

LordChess

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Have a look at the link I provided in my previous message--it explains the difference pretty well. In a nutshell, a distributor provides all the services a wholesaler does, with the addition of a staff of sales representatives who are in direct contact with bookstore managers and buyers. A direct sales component is a vital part of the process of getting books into stores. Wholesalers don't provide it (unless, as with Ingram, they have a special division to do so).

Don't be fooled by a small publisher that tells you it has a marketing department or that it employs a marketing person. It's not the same.

I get it now.
 

JulieB

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Victoria: Thanks for the clarification. It is indeed confusing.

Althelyna: Did you pay to join Cambridge? If so, it's a scam. The real Who's Who directories do not charge for listing. Sure, they offer you discounts on the book and try to sell other items, but you don't have to spend money to get into a legitimate Who's Who directory. I hope you read through the entire thread.
 

J. R. Tomlin

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Can Victoria or someone answer two questions for me, please?

I notice that wholesalers offer either consignment or invoice-based purchases while while distributers offer only consignment purchases. Ok the difference is obvious. I'm not asking the difference. What I don't really understand is how this difference affects the publisher and why this would be an important difference.

Also I notice that distributors have payment based on a percentage of NET sales while wholesalers while with wholesales it is based on a flat discount of retail. Do I understand that correctly? And if so, what is the affect on the publisher.

Is the real difference that a distributor has a sales staff? That is what I got from one of Victoria's posts. It's confusing, so I'm trying to figure out how all this affects me as an author and exactly WHAT I should look for in a publisher if (as I expect) I will have one of my novels with a small press.

Thanks.
 

Althelyna

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No I paid nothing with Cambridge Who's Who and I was nominated for an award. I was sent a plaque. No I did not win the award.

Althy
 

Althelyna

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J.R. Tomlin,

You can go to www.bookmarket.com

It has a lot of solid information. It is John Kremer's website. He knows all the ins and outs of marketing and publishing. He has a list of established publishers on his site. I am currently reading his book 1001 Ways to market your Books For Authors and Publishers He is very well known. I wish I would have found him sooner. Good Luck with your endeavors.

Best Wishes
Althelyna
 

victoriastrauss

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John Kremer's main orientation is toward self-publishing. He offers helpful information for self-publishers, but much of it's not relevant to writers who are or who want to be commercially published.
J.R. Tomlin said:
I notice that wholesalers offer either consignment or invoice-based purchases while while distributers offer only consignment purchases. Ok the difference is obvious. I'm not asking the difference. What I don't really understand is how this difference affects the publisher and why this would be an important difference.
I'm afraid I don't know the answer to this question, but I'm thinking that maybe it has to do with returnability. If a publisher's books aren't returnable, it would want invoice-based purchases, and if they are returnable, it would want consignment purchases. Distributors assume that the publishers they work with do accept returns. Anyway, that's my guess.
Also I notice that distributors have payment based on a percentage of NET sales while wholesalers while with wholesales it is based on a flat discount of retail. Do I understand that correctly? And if so, what is the affect on the publisher.
This is apples and oranges, in a way--purchases and payments. Wholesalers buy books from publishers to re-sell to retailers, whereas distributors sell books on behalf of publishers to both wholesalers and retailers. Wholesalers buy at a flat discount off a book's retail price, often 55%. Retailers buy at a smaller discount, often 40%. So depending on whether the distributor is selling to a wholesaler or a bookstore, the sale will generate a different net. The distributor then keeps a percentage--I believe 25% is common--and the publisher gets the rest.

Although having a distributor is an extra cost for a publisher, the additional sales generated by wider bookstore presence should offset that. At a certain point, though, it can become more cost-effective to do your own distribution. Many larger independents handle their own distribution, and the mega-publishers all do.
Is the real difference that a distributor has a sales staff?
It's one of the main differences, yes.

- Victoria
 

Althelyna

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I meant he can find a lot of great established small press publishers. Ones that are not on these beware sites. That is why I gave the website. I agree with you that he does go towards the Self Published author.
 

J. R. Tomlin

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Victoria, thanks for the clarification. I have tried to educate myself on the publishing business, but it is amazingly complicated. And I have to compliment AW for helping a lot of us learn much more than we ever would have otherwise--not to mention preventing some horrendous mistakes.