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Thread: [Publisher] L & L Dreamspell

  1. #1
    Ahead of Your Time Chicken Warrior's Avatar
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    [Publisher] L & L Dreamspell

    Website is here: http://www.lldreamspell.com/Fiction.html

    They don't really sell from their website, which isn't a bad thing (it's not too hot) but they do distribute through Fictionwise and Amazon. I see a few ex-Wordshell authors there (probably a good sign).

    They say you can see a sample contract, but it's not really a contract at all. Pretty standard POD rights - 15% net on paperbacks, and a pretty good 40% net on ebooks (pretty good for net, that is). Their cover art is above average, and I've seen their ebooks around. If they're not vanity (which I don't think they are) they might be good, for what they are.

    Anyone had any experience with them?

  2. #2
    volitare nequeo AW Moderator veinglory's Avatar
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    They do sell from their website but with their navigation and blue text on blue background it is easy to miss both for authors and customers: http://www.lldreamspell.com/BooksIndex.html Given than most top romance epublishers (and possibly those from other genres) make most of their sales from their own sites this is an issue.

    They seem to provide a deal more or less like other e/PODs but the website is a worry. The calculation based on net is not informative unless they specifiy which exact publishing costs are paid out of royalites. It is run by "Linndah and Lisa"-- I assume they are the Lisa (Lisa Rene Smith) & Linda/Linndah who also authored many of the books?
    Last edited by veinglory; 09-24-2007 at 06:58 AM.
    Emily Veinglory

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by veinglory View Post
    They do sell from their website but with their navigation and blue text on blue background it is easy to miss both for authors and customers: http://www.lldreamspell.com/BooksIndex.html Given than most top romance epublishers (and possibly those from other genres) make most of their sales from their own sites this is an issue.
    Wow! It is really difficult to see those blue-on-blue links. Definitely the mark of inexperience.

  4. #4
    Mostly Harmless SuperModerator CaoPaux's Avatar
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    http://www.lldreamspell.com/ContractSample.html

    9--Advances--What the Publisher gives the Author when they sign this contract. L&L Dreamspell is new, and give a "token" advance of $1 with a certificate and framed photo of the book cover, five copies of the trade paperback book, and also a new author start-up gift package.
    Lisa was a PA author. I don't find any previous works for Linda "Linndah" Houle, at least under those names.

    The excerpts I read don't reflect well on the editor(s), IMHO.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by CaoPaux View Post
    http://www.lldreamspell.com/ContractSample.html



    Lisa was a PA author. I don't find any previous works for Linda "Linndah" Houle, at least under those names.

    The excerpts I read don't reflect well on the editor(s), IMHO.
    Haven't there been several other schemes by PA authors to set up POD publishing companies, that all came to nothing in the end? I can't bring any specifics to mind right now, but this all seems awfully familiar, like history repeating itself again.

  6. #6
    volitare nequeo AW Moderator veinglory's Avatar
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    I don't think there is any general connection, but yes I could name a few other epublishers where one of the founders has a book with PA (some that even post that fact proudly).
    Emily Veinglory

  7. #7
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin Dreamer's Avatar
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    I just scoped through L & L Dreamspell website and it's been a while since the last discussion. Has anyone been working with this company?

  8. #8
    practical experience, FTW c2ckim's Avatar
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    I sent them a query on 5/29 and got an auto reply that said they wouls be in touch soon, they just never said how soon. Maybe I'll withdraw my submission
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  9. #9
    practical experience, FTW Robyn's Avatar
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    I actually sent them a query 2 days ago and got an email today saying they remember my name from my myspace and asked for a full.

  10. #10
    volitare nequeo AW Moderator veinglory's Avatar
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    I would be very curious about their sales, for the ERECsite.com comparision data. I still think their website is far from functional as an ebookstore.
    Emily Veinglory

  11. #11
    practical experience, FTW Robyn's Avatar
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    I am going to be.. i've actually been advised to send my vamp series to Tor so it will be going out this weekend as well.

  12. #12
    Mostly Harmless SuperModerator CaoPaux's Avatar
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    Updating contract link: http://www.lldreamspell.com/Contract.htm

    9 Advances - What the Publisher gives the Author when the book is published. L&L Dreamspell now gives an advance from $100 to $250 for books, and $10 to $25 for short stories (depending on book length, author experience, and in the case of anthologies, how many stories are in each book.) You'll also receive a certificate and framed photo of the book cover, five copies of the trade paperback book (two copies for anthology authors) and also a gift package.
    I'm no longer finding excerpts beyond the blurbs, but this looks like a publisher that's actually improved.
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    II 2016: 2017:

  13. #13
    volitare nequeo AW Moderator veinglory's Avatar
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    Call me a cynic but I would like to hear author confirmation (from a non-staff, non-owner).
    Emily Veinglory

  14. #14
    aka Sadistic Mistress Mi-chan M.R.J. Le Blanc's Avatar
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    From Author FAQs:

    •IMPORTANT - About bookstores - L&L Dreamspell offers bookstores and other resellers the maximum discount and returnability - THIS DOES NOT GUARANTEE BOOKSTORE PLACEMENT. Most Independent bookstores love to work with small presses and their authors. Most "chain" bookstores DO NOT - this means it is very difficult to get into the big box stores. We want you to be aware that if it is important for you to have your book on store shelves, then you'll need to find an agent and seek publication with a major New York Press and not a small press like L&L.
    The last part especially sounds very misguided.

    •Who holds the copyright? The author - and it's your responsibility to obtain a copyright
    This doesn't exactly thrill me. I was under the impression many sized publishers were able to cover that without the author's help.

    And on this page (http://www.lldreamspell.com/PublishingRealityCheck.htm) they confuse 'marketing' with 'promotion'. If this place has drilled anything into me, it's that authors promote, the publisher markets. There's a lot of things on that page that just make me think 'this doesn't sound quite right'. Like understanding that 'you are not just an author, but a small business owner, and that you have an equal responsibility for the success or failure of your book'.

    EDIT:
    Misconception: I want to submit to a small, independent press because they can get me into every bookstore in the country and into some in other countries.

    Reality: Brick and mortar bookstores have become increasing hostile to shelving small, independent press books. There are many reasons for this, the main one being that their largest clients (New York publishers) don’t like the competition of small press books. Since they pay for shelf space, they are able to apply pressure on bookstores.
    ...this can't be accurate, can it?
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  15. #15
    Mostly Harmless SuperModerator CaoPaux's Avatar
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    Not even close. They've improved, but they're nowhere near "good" yet, just in case my statement was mistaken for optimism.
    ICAO
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    II 2016: 2017:

  16. #16
    volitare nequeo AW Moderator veinglory's Avatar
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    I am not sure they have improved. They continue to be around, I continue to not see their books demonstrate any marketplace presence at all--let alone give evidence of sales that would support an advance. I am a cynic, but I doubt this advance has ever been paid.
    Emily Veinglory

  17. #17
    Writer Beware's Faithful Igor Richard White's Avatar
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    M.R.J.

    Misconception: I want to submit to a small, independent press because they can get me into every bookstore in the country and into some in other countries.

    Reality: Brick and mortar bookstores have become increasing hostile to shelving small, independent press books. There are many reasons for this, the main one being that their largest clients (New York publishers) don’t like the competition of small press books. Since they pay for shelf space, they are able to apply pressure on bookstores.
    These people wouldn't know reality if it hit them.

    Sure, it's tough for a small press to get distribution. Why? It does take money and a sufficient volume of books to make it worth the effort for the distributor to add you to their catalog and to market your books.

    If you're running a shoestring operation that relies on your authors to provide most of your spending capital - it probably is impossible.

    But a well-organized, well-capitalized, well-planned small press can easily put books in bookstores all around the country.

  18. #18
    aka Sadistic Mistress Mi-chan M.R.J. Le Blanc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard White View Post
    M.R.J.



    These people wouldn't know reality if it hit them.

    Sure, it's tough for a small press to get distribution. Why? It does take money and a sufficient volume of books to make it worth the effort for the distributor to add you to their catalog and to market your books.

    If you're running a shoestring operation that relies on your authors to provide most of your spending capital - it probably is impossible.

    But a well-organized, well-capitalized, well-planned small press can easily put books in bookstores all around the country.
    That's what I kind of figured. I'm sure it's not AS easy as it is for larger presses, but that's why smaller presses are all that more particular about what they pick up and, more importantly, how many titles. So that they can give those stories the best chance to be on those bookstore shelves.
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  19. #19
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaoPaux View Post
    Not even close. They've improved, but they're nowhere near "good" yet, just in case my statement was mistaken for optimism.
    I am an author with L&L Dreamspell, and sorry to disappoint you, but I'm happy with them. I didn't have the expectation of it being the same as being with a big press, but I also don't have the pressures. They have published two of the Silver Sisters Mysteries (A Corpse in the Soup and Seven Deadly Samovars) and one of my stories in a just released anthology (Trust No One in The Mystery of the Green Mist). Two more books are due to be released soon under the pen name Arliss Adams (Devil's Dance and The Devil's Due.) They offer a small advance, lots of support, copies to be sent for legitimate reviews and much more including quality in the printed product. They even supply several copies of beautiful posters of my covers to use at events.

    As for promotion/marketing, I was in that business for five years. For a rapidly growing company, Dreamspell is making all the right moves at the right pace, in my opinion. True, my books aren't on the shelf at Barnes & Noble or Borders, but can easily be ordered. With Ingram and Broadart as distributors it is easy to find them on many sites. However, in some of the really "hot" genres like romance and paranormal, Dreamspell books have been accepted for in-store stock at B&N and Borders. It is all a numbers game. Remember, too, regardless of the publisher, if the books don't sell they are pulled from the shelves and the publisher must accept the cost of returns.

    I've seen the changes and improvements in Dreamspell since I first joined their Dream Team of authors in late 2008, with the release of both Silver Sisters books in 2009.

    By the way, I have friends with midlist and big presses, and there is very little in the way of promotion/marketing support unless you are one of their platinum names. You're still spending your own money to do your own promotion. And if the books don't sell enough copies, you guessed it...you're dropped like a hot potato.

    An author has to decide what they're looking for at their own stage of life. It is different for everyone. At my stage in life, I'm extremely happy with Dreamspell.

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  20. #20
    volitare nequeo AW Moderator veinglory's Avatar
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    What are your sales like? Just ballpark, single, double triple or more figures per title in the first year? Because everything else if pretty much beside the point IMHO, including happiness, bad website design and attitudes about being oppressed by big publishers.
    Emily Veinglory

  21. #21
    Girl Detective Stacia Kane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stjameswriter View Post

    By the way, I have friends with midlist and big presses, and there is very little in the way of promotion/marketing support unless you are one of their platinum names. You're still spending your own money to do your own promotion. And if the books don't sell enough copies, you guessed it...you're dropped like a hot potato.

    I am so tired of hearing this. It is absolutely incorrect that there is no marketing support at the big houses unless you're already an NYT bestseller. Del Rey and Pocket both sent out ARCs for my books; that's marketing. They both got my books on shelves in stores (in some cases with front table placement/endcap placement/ other spiffy things); that's marketing. They sent out information to booksellers/additional copies to bookstores; that's marketing. They've taken out ads in bookseller/reader publications; that, again, is marketing.

    And that's not even to start listing the things HarperVoyager is doing in the UK and Australia.

    I am certainly not a platinum name, and yet Pocket has set up interviews and blog tours for me, with book giveaways, where they send out the books. Del Rey has plans for San Diego Comic-Con and New York Comic-Con. I'm assigned publicists at both houses who are eager to discuss my plans and co-ordinate their own plans with me and provide me with the materials I need to help promote my books, and I am barely what you would call midlist (oh, but whether my books sell or not, I get to keep the nice advances, so already I'm ahead of the game).

    Not everyone's experience is the same, sure, but that also means you cannot make a blanket statement like "Those big houses don't market/promote their authors unless the authors are bestsellers." It's not true and I'm tired of seeing it.

    If the books are in stores, they've received marketing attention. Show me one big house that doesn't routinely get its books on the shelves.

    I'm glad you're happy with DreamSpell and I'm not putting them down. But I'm tired of seeing misinformation spread as fact.
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  22. #22
    Cultus Gopherus MacAllister Medievalist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stjameswriter View Post

    By the way, I have friends with midlist and big presses, and there is very little in the way of promotion/marketing support unless you are one of their platinum names. Y
    This is false. The problem is that authors often don't know what's being done.

    Catalogs with glossy pictures of covers and blurbs and placement descriptions are printed and sent or hand delivered to retailers and distributors. Sales staff go to the retailers and help them decide what books will sell to their customers. Bookstores receive promo lit for forthcoming books--often well in advance of the printing date because a publisher thinks a particular book by a new author or one who hasn't released in a while might garner enough advance orders to need more copies. Displays at ALA and Book Expo and smaller genre conventions are set up. Many publishers have special retail-only Web sites for booksellers used to help convince them to order books in advance.

    The sales staff are hugely important in driving sales, btw.

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  23. #23
    I grow my own catnip JulieB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stacia Kane View Post

    If the books are in stores, they've received marketing attention. Show me one big house that doesn't routinely get its books on the shelves.
    This. Big houses do it, small houses do it. Darn near any house that knows they have to sell books to readers in order to make a profit does it.

    Sure there are a few exceptions (and I'm thinking of some small publishers that produce and sell mainly limited editions), but for the most part, brick-and-mortar retail STILL drives sales.

  24. #24
    matushka at large matdonna's Avatar
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    This editor is putting together an anthology-- and then -hoping- that L&L Dreamspell will buy the book. I've never heard of this being done before....

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  25. #25
    volitare nequeo AW Moderator veinglory's Avatar
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    Editor-initiated anthologies are not so rare, but they generally aim a little higher IMHO.
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