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Thread: L&R Hartley, Publishers

  1. #1
    figuring it all out ccomer's Avatar
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    L&R Hartley, Publishers

    L&R Hartley are after me for $2000 because they say they NOW published my book. I have another publisher and my book comes out in the spring. I never signed anything with L&R and if I did receive a letter saying they would publish, I would of sent them an email refusing. Now they say they are publishing it and I never sent them anything so I owe them for the sales on my book from my new publisher.
    ANYONE KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THEM AND WHAT THEY ARE DOING??

  2. #2
    I'd imagine this is something you should be discussing with your agent (if you have one) and your publisher.

  3. #3
    Mostly Harmless SuperModerator CaoPaux's Avatar
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    This one? http://www.geocities.com/freepublish/

    How did they acquire your book?
    ICAO
    ---------

    Censorship always defeats its own purpose, for it creates in the end the kind of society that is incapable of exercising real discretion. -- Henry Steele Commager
    Achievers strive for excellence. Perfectionists drive themselves to extinction. -- A Grapple A Day
    I've never known any trouble that an hour's reading didn't assuage. -- Charles DeSecondat

    II 2016: 2017:

  4. #4
    figuring it all out ccomer's Avatar
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    that is the one. I sent them my manuscript back in March and now they say they are publishing it. Now that it is due to come out in the spring from another publisher. I never received any word from them till now.

  5. #5
    Writer Beware Goddess Absolute Sage victoriastrauss's Avatar
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    ccomer, if you didn't sign a contract or an agreement, they don't have the right to publish. You certainly shouldn't pay anything.

    Please contact me privately. You can PM me, or email beware@sfwa.org

    - Victoria

  6. #6
    Now departed. Rest in peace, Scott, from all of us at AW Requiescat In Pace Popeyesays's Avatar
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    No contract means they have no rights to publish. Go to a lawyer, and sue them right out of business.

    Regards,
    Scott
    [B]Okay, damnit, I blog [URL]http://cscottsaylorsbooks.blogspot.com/[/URL][/B]
    [B]Sword of the Dajjal[/B] e-book, [SIZE=2]Published by BooksForABuck.com May, 2007 ISBN: 978-1-602-052-2 [URL]http://www.booksforabuck.com/sfpages/sf_07/sword_dajjal.html[/URL][/SIZE]
    Out in print early 2008 from Blu Phi'er[URL="http://www.fictionwise.com/eBooks/eBook47261.htm?cached"][/URL]
    [B]Jars of Doom[/B] out mid 2008 from Blu Phi'er
    [URL]http://www.bluphier.com/[/URL]

  7. #7
    Holding out for a Superhero... Sheryl Nantus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccomer View Post
    that is the one. I sent them my manuscript back in March and now they say they are publishing it. Now that it is due to come out in the spring from another publisher. I never received any word from them till now.
    I'd inform your CURRENT publisher and let them pursue legal action as well, if it's needed. If you signed a contract with them then they may be interested in making sure this doesn't happen.

    who's your publisher?

  8. #8
    figuring it all out ccomer's Avatar
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    by the email they sent me, they say that they give a 5 day cooling off period to refuse. I never received that email or I would of told them no.
    I did send my publisher a copy of the email. waiting to hear back

    Victoria: I sent you an email.

  9. #9
    figuring it all out ccomer's Avatar
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    this is the email they sent me when I told them to destroy my book. I never received any email from them but this one and the one earlier today saying they were sending me a copy of my published book.



    L&R Hartley, PUBLISHERS

    A reminder of what it says on our website:

    "Manuscripts, once sent and if accepted form the kernel and substance of a legally binding contract, effective after a five-day cooling-off period. You will be advised by email if acceptance has taken place. It is important, therefore, that you keep your email address up-to-date and advise of any changes. Please also ensure that any anti-SPAM filters do not block emails from L&R Hartley. Where no email address is provided, advice is by airmail (or local mail) and the cooling-off period is extended to 21 days.

    Unless your email address is current and functional we cannot be responsible if you are not advised of changes or updates.

    Upon submitting a manuscript for beta publication we agree not to charge the author anything for publication and accept that the author will not exact any charges upon us.

    What happens if an author changes his or her mind after the cooling-off period? We have already promised that we will not pressure the author to buy anything from us, and also that the author still holds intellectual property rights on the text of the manuscript and can therefore submit it to other publishers. If an author changes his or her mind after we have only just commenced work on the book but it is incomplete, we may choose to allow the book to be withdrawn without penalty. If extensive work has been done on we may request to be partially fiscally reimbursed for the work done thus far. Once the book is completed, it can only be withdrawn at the author’s request if we are partially fiscally reimbursed for the work done. Note that this is only a request for reimbursement, however if reimbursement is not made, then we have a legal right to reparations through the sale of copies of the publication. Although the costs of production, contracting artists and artisans, materials, administration, initial print-runs, advertising, etc. may run into several thousands of dollars, in order to provide advance notice, we have chosen that author liability will be limited to $2,000 per publication. If the book is withdrawn at our request (e.g. because of marketing competition with the same title by another publisher) we will neither require nor will we request reimbursement. If the book is withdrawn at our request because we have detected plagiarism we reserve the right to legal redress."

  10. #10
    Now departed. Rest in peace, Scott, from all of us at AW Requiescat In Pace Popeyesays's Avatar
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    This will not hold up in court, I prophesy.

    Contracts require consent and consent is demonstrated by the signature.

    There 'contract" can't be binding because there is no allowance for the submission being made without the author's consent.

    Contracts must be advantageous to both parties or the contract does not exist. This 'contract" is only of benefit to the "publisher".

    Get your publisher to go after them, I hope they do, but if they don't, or if they opt to cancel rather than fight it, then sue this original outfit for compensatory damages.

    regards,
    Scott
    [B]Okay, damnit, I blog [URL]http://cscottsaylorsbooks.blogspot.com/[/URL][/B]
    [B]Sword of the Dajjal[/B] e-book, [SIZE=2]Published by BooksForABuck.com May, 2007 ISBN: 978-1-602-052-2 [URL]http://www.booksforabuck.com/sfpages/sf_07/sword_dajjal.html[/URL][/SIZE]
    Out in print early 2008 from Blu Phi'er[URL="http://www.fictionwise.com/eBooks/eBook47261.htm?cached"][/URL]
    [B]Jars of Doom[/B] out mid 2008 from Blu Phi'er
    [URL]http://www.bluphier.com/[/URL]

  11. #11
    Now departed. Rest in peace, Scott, from all of us at AW Requiescat In Pace Popeyesays's Avatar
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    Oh! Find a draft "Cease and Desist" boilerplate on the internet. Fill it and send it to them both by e-mail and registered mail. IANAL, but that would seem to be prudent.

    Regards,
    Scott
    [B]Okay, damnit, I blog [URL]http://cscottsaylorsbooks.blogspot.com/[/URL][/B]
    [B]Sword of the Dajjal[/B] e-book, [SIZE=2]Published by BooksForABuck.com May, 2007 ISBN: 978-1-602-052-2 [URL]http://www.booksforabuck.com/sfpages/sf_07/sword_dajjal.html[/URL][/SIZE]
    Out in print early 2008 from Blu Phi'er[URL="http://www.fictionwise.com/eBooks/eBook47261.htm?cached"][/URL]
    [B]Jars of Doom[/B] out mid 2008 from Blu Phi'er
    [URL]http://www.bluphier.com/[/URL]

  12. #12
    Holding out for a Superhero... Sheryl Nantus's Avatar
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    I doubt there's actually any REAL copies - sounds like they're just attempting to phish you out of the cash and THEN they'd print the books.

    Again, notify your publisher and let them know that there's trouble afoot.

    and next time PLEASE take greater care in choosing who to send your manuscript to. A Geocities website (that's now down, AFAIK) doesn't exactly scream "professional", doncha know...


  13. #13
    Absolutely Fazed
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    Manuscripts, once sent and if accepted form the kernel and substance of a legally binding contract, effective after a five-day cooling-off period.
    This sounds almost like the scam of mailing you something you didn't order and then sending you a bill to pay for it. You aren't legally obligated to pay for those, and I doubt these guys could enforce payment simply because you sent them a manuscript. And I bet they never sent that email you didn't receive. I imagine they just went through their email box and sent out emails to everyone who sent them something. I'd also be willing to bet that anyone who pays them $2,000 will get a book thrown together in LuLu.

    IANAL

  14. #14
    I would doubt there was any legal binding to it. First off, I'm not sure anything of that nature would ever be legally binding (i.e. the once you send it to us we have rights type contract). Second, I don't think they could prove they sent you an acceptance email. Third, the contract being binding when an email is sent out would probably be thrown out simply based on how unreliable email is as a form of communication.

    But, really, you don't want it to go that far. I would simply tell your publisher/agent and take their advice on what steps to take to deal with the situation.

  15. #15
    Also, do this:

    Send them an email that states: You are responsible for payment of $500,000 to me, the author. This contract is legally binding upon receipt of this email. Please contact me to find out how to go about making good on your payment.

    I'm just joking, of course.

  16. #16
    Writer Beware Goddess Absolute Sage victoriastrauss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccomer View Post
    "Manuscripts, once sent and if accepted form the kernel and substance of a legally binding contract, effective after a five-day cooling-off period. You will be advised by email if acceptance has taken place.
    Them saying it doesn't make it so. This is nonsense. Just submitting a manuscript and getting an acceptance from a publisher does NOT constitute a binding contract. You must consent to allow them to exploit your rights, which by copyright law belong to you and can't be exploited without permission. If you did not consent and they publish your book, they're in violation of copyright, and YOU can sue THEM.

    Write them back and tell them so. Tell them also that you won't pay a penny.

    I agree it sounds like a fake-billing scam.

    - Victoria

  17. #17
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    Take some snapshots of their website while they still have the claims like "No, we are NOT vanity publishers and we don't charge for publishing." (Complete with their amateurish colour scheme)

    Their claims are bizarre. For a start, they are ePublishers who aren't even competent enough to have their own website. Sure, a geocities website isn't bad for an amateur or a hobby site ... but this is a Publisher!

    Why don't you set up a webpage of your own, and mention the webpage in your next email to them - with the email being a simple question?

    Then when they reply, point out the fine print on your website - which contains a contract that not only frees your book from their contract, but allows you to repossess their home and claim all their assets.

    Sure, your claim would be no more binding than theirs - but it would be an amusing story that will be great blog-fodder and probably even make it to Boing-Boing. How could you say no to a great chance at e-publicity like that ?

    Mac
    Last edited by Mac H.; 09-09-2007 at 03:40 PM.

  18. #18
    Writer Beware Goddess Absolute Sage victoriastrauss's Avatar
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    One more thing--I don't usually advise that authors register their own copyrights prior to publication, but if your current publisher hasn't already registered copyright for you, you might ask them to do it ASAP--or, if they don't register their authors' copyrights, consider doing it on your own. In the USA, you need to register in order to be able to sue in court for copyright infringement. In the circumstances, I think it's a wise precaution.

    - Victoria

  19. #19
    figuring it all out ccomer's Avatar
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    Thank you everyone for your help.
    I just wanted everyone to know what these people are up to and how they work so no one else goes through this.

  20. #20
    Sockpuppet
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    Their website is astonishing in its cluelessness. A very amateur act.

  21. #21
    practical experience, FTW Khazarkhum's Avatar
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    This sounds like the classic 'pay me' scams. The most recent version was one where the people claimed to be bill collectors for credit card accounts closed years ago. They would write & threaten you, but if you paid them some money, usually a fraction of what was 'owed', they'd generously write off the rest & you'd be 'free'. They only needed to scare a few people into paying them to stay in business.

    Same idea. They just need a couple of naive authors to give them money so they can stay in business a few more months.

  22. #22
    banned as an incurable tosspot
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    Wow. A "publisher" using geocities. Now there's a class act.

  23. #23
    Veni Vidi Scripsi Red Robin's Avatar
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    From their frontpage -
    Urgent Announcement: Due to the unfortunate closure of our printing works we are currently publishing in electronic format only!
    What? They are not publishers. They are a geocities site.

    I don't know anything about American law, but I do know that if they actually do take you to court, you will need a lawyer, which will certainly cost you at least as much money as they are demanding. That makes me think even more so that this is just a scam.

    I know that small articles and letters to the editor are received in such a fashion, but not manuscripts.

    Sounds as if there is good advice in this thread.



  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by victoriastrauss View Post
    In the USA, you need to register in order to be able to sue in court for copyright infringement. In the circumstances, I think it's a wise precaution.

    I do not believe that is correct. You can take someone to court without registering the copyright, you are just limited in what type of damages you can be rewarded. (I believe you can only receive actual damages.) And, obviously, it is more difficult to prove you have copyright if you don't have it registered.

    Though I definitely agree it would be a good idea to get the copyright registered asap.

  25. #25
    Your Genial Uncle Absolute Sage James D. Macdonald's Avatar
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    True. Actual damages in this case are likely to be miniscule. To deter these folks, and to make suing them worth your while, you'll want the statutory damages that come with registered copyright.

    Meanwhile, have you seen this? Count the number of things wrong with the description of publishing, starting with how you need an agent to sell short stories, and go from there. Note too that this unsolicited paean to L&R Hartley is in a subdirectory belonging to a "lionehartley." Coincidence? You decide!

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