Shady's Edgy YA (or sex, swearing, drinking, drugs, and violence in YA)

jkellerford

YA author with a flair for fantasy!
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I was a voracious reader in high school. I read anything and everything, not just books for kids. When raising my kids, we went to the library a lot and got books. As my kids got older, I had quite a collection in the house but they would still check out books from the library. A few years ago, our local library grew into this huge building and now we have a whole teen section upstairs. There is a lounge with video games, bean bag chairs, computers and of course, books. during the school year, there are always kids there. And, as a YA author, I spend a lot of time there, too, listening and watching. Great fodder for future books. ;-)
 

Thick Skin

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HELP. I just searched my novel for the word "loins" and it appeared only once, whew. Here is the sentence:

He was naked save for a swath of deerskin covering his loins.

My MC is fighting another, older guy, to assume the leadership role. This use of loins is in no way sexual. I mean it like a loin cloth.

Is this okay with everyone? Especially any teens on this board? This is an epic fantasy/YA crossover novel.

I also use the word "climax" in a sex scene. What do you think? Too dated?
 

jtrylch13

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Depending on how you use it, and I think your use sounds fine, I wouldn't be too concerned. The previous convo was talking about sexual parts of a book and how we (or at least I) see it as a word used in bodice-ripping romance, or historical romances, or both. It works for those stories, but to have a modern teen use it seriously would seem odd. Is this in 1st person? Even so, as a Fantasy, I assume other world, it could be part of that world. I used some pretty dated words in my SF story set in the future to give it a certain tone, so as long as it fits with the rest of the story I don't think it would be a problem. Maybe see if you can think of another way to write it and if it sounds better, great. But if not, stick with loins.

And I don't know about the sex scene using climax. I'm not saying don't do it, but most of the YA I read either has nothing but kissing or does a fade to black on the sex scene. That's what I did in my latest novel. The reader knows without a doubt that they have sex, but I don't describe it in detail. But that doesn't mean you can't if you do it right. It really depends on the story and your eventual beta readers should give you a heads up on how they see it working in the novel. Don't sweat it for now. See what some betas think.
 

Cyia

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I could see the word "loins" being used for comedic effect in YA.

Imagine a teenage boy and a tattered 80's paperback romance: "Lions? What's this crazy writer mean "lions?" That's messed up, dude."
 

Thick Skin

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I could see the word "loins" being used for comedic effect in YA.

Imagine a teenage boy and a tattered 80's paperback romance: "Lions? What's this crazy writer mean "lions?" That's messed up, dude."

That made me laugh. I had to read it twice. Good job. I love wit.

As for "climax" I only show the "pump and grind" in one of three total sex scenes in my [long] novel. In this scene, an older woman (10 years older) is seducing my MC. He succumbs because he's male and 19 years old. I thought showing it was a good contrast.

Plus, there is no afterglow. My MC falls asleep afterward and there is no intimacy. This is an act of physical sex, not love. Therefore, when I reread it now, it does sound a bit clinical. Definitely not romantic. And I think that's what I was going for.

I appreciate all the insight. Thanks for your responses!
 
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J.S.F.

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Funny--I notice this thread is somewhat dated, but I'll reply, anyway--in a recent novel (third in The Nightmare Crew trilogy) I used the word "loins" and asked my editor if it was too archaic. She said no, leave it in. For some reason, I didn't want to use the word "crotch" even though it's perfectably acceptable. So I went with loins.

Sir Loin of Beef...there's a Bugs Bunny reference if ever there was one... :D
 

Grayson Moon

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I definitely agree with everything you've said. When I started on my first book ever, it had some pretty heavy themes. I got a few comments (from my family, naturally) that I shouldn't be writing such an intense book for young adults. In other words: Why don't you write something with a happy ending where everyone wins? No. Just no. My book get intense, people die, some of them brutally. Kids are put through hell, because in reality, most do live in it every day. But you can still make a damn good story out of it. I guess adding the themes, like the ones that you mentioned, narrows the amount of people willing to accept it, while keeping things clean and captivating draws in everyone. I'm not judging, since my first try at a novel wasn't exactly narwhals and rainbows, but it all depends on the reader's interests. If some people don't think some books are appropriate for children, then it's their loss on some good literature.
 
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Gabiwellfit

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Welp, just read all 24 pages of this thread in mere hours and I am very happy with the answers I received. Thanks guys!
 

Emermouse

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I definitely agree with everything you've said. When I started on my first book ever, it had some pretty heavy themes. I got a few comments (from my family, naturally) that I shouldn't be writing such an intense book for young adults. In other words: Why don't you write something with a happy ending where everyone wins? No. Just no. My book get intense, people die, some of them brutally. Kids are put through hell, because in reality, most do live in it every day.

I never could get behind people who were like, "OMG! Why does YA fiction have to be so dark?" First of all, there are frothy romances out there for those interested. Second of all, such complaints feel kind of quaint, because last time I checked, Misery didn't respect a "You Must Be This Tall to Experience This" line. Plenty of kids find themselves dealing with some horrible shit, before they're even old enough to drive, and I don't think the key to solving those problems, is the ban fictionalized portrayals of it.
 

Jan74

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I think it's good for youth to read things that challenge them or make them gasp....and frankly if you can make a teenager gasp in the year 2017 well my hats off to ya! When I was a teenager V.C Andrews was top of the list for cringe factor but we all read her books they were page turners, full of abuse and incest my mother had no idea! One thing I owe my parents is not restricting what I read....Carrie was my first SK book....I was in grade 5, our town library and the school library were one in the same so we had access to all the goodies, and never told no you can't take that out.
 

Roxxsmom

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I think it's good for youth to read things that challenge them or make them gasp....and frankly if you can make a teenager gasp in the year 2017 well my hats off to ya!

I was going to say, it's generally the older folks who gasp at explicit content, not the teens. I think this has been true for ages, since language and situations that are normal to the sensibilities of younger people are often considered edgy by many adults.

Of course, not all teens are the same. I knew at least a few who were sheltered and innocent when I was a teen (in the 80s), and even later on in college, and I'm sure some still are today.

I agree that good literature often pushes people out of their comfort zones, but it doesn't have to be intentionally shocking to do this. Not that I think swearing, drug use, or sex in novels is shocking (nor did I as a teen, and there were plenty of books that included these things back then). Still, I've run across some particular differences between myself and most younger people in how we interpret the meanings of slang words or phrases and in how disrespectful we think they are.
 
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Jan74

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I was going to say, it's generally the older folks who gasp at explicit content, not the teens. I think this has been true for ages, since language and situations that are normal to the sensibilities of younger people are often considered edgy by many adults.

Of course, not all teens are the same. I knew at least a few who were sheltered and innocent when I was a teen (in the 80s), and even later on in college, and I'm sure some still are today.

I agree that good literature often pushes people out of their comfort zones, but it doesn't have to be intentionally shocking to do this. Not that I think swearing, drug use, or sex in novels is shocking (nor did I as a teen, and there were plenty of books that included these things back then). Still, I've run across some particular differences between myself and most younger people in how we interpret the meanings of slang words or phrases and in how disrespectful we think they are.

Agreed... I was blessed with a sister who is four years my senior, so I had read the outsiders years before we ever took it in school, why... because we were traveling back home for Christmas and I was utterly bored in the car and ran out of things to read... so I read her homework :) I love that book! I think it makes a huge difference on how you are raised and what you are exposed to. My friends mother had Clan of the Cave Bear and I loved the book cover so I had to read it. I saw the three pack in our local bookstore and I bought it with my allowance, I read that first book within a few days... not bad for 12 year old :)

I try to encourage my boys to read, they aren't bookworms like their sister, she always had a book with her, I always have at least two/three books on the go and their father loves to read also. Hopefully they will find a love for it. I keep telling them that reading allows you to enter a different world if you let it.
 

flarue

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I'm grateful for this thread. My book has ended up being a little more violent than I originally anticipated. Of course, if I decide to keep a certain scene in the story after the final edits, and it gets accepted by a publisher one day, I suppose it will be up to discussing with the editor as to whether or not it stays as graphic as it currently is. It takes a small weight off my shoulders that I don't have to worry about "censoring" it in the meantime, at least. :D
 

ManInBlack

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I asked this in SYW but this is the thread actually about my concern, so: it's generally considered distasteful to talk about teens as sexual beings. It's illegal to depict them having sex without actors over the age of 18. Teens have sex. So what are general thoughts here on depicting this in writing? Is it distasteful to write about a 16 year old losing her virginity? Where do we draw the line?
 

CJSimone

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I asked this in SYW but this is the thread actually about my concern, so: it's generally considered distasteful to talk about teens as sexual beings. It's illegal to depict them having sex without actors over the age of 18. Teens have sex. So what are general thoughts here on depicting this in writing? Is it distasteful to write about a 16 year old losing her virginity? Where do we draw the line?

"Is it distasteful to write about a 16 year old losing her virginity? Where do we draw the line?" For some readers it will always be distasteful, for others rarely. I think for most, myself included, it will depend on your story and your approach.
 

Keobooks

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I'm a former YA librarian for school and public libraries. I never underestimate what YA readers can handle, but I do worry about what publishers and buyers can handle.

Up until recently, I felt leery of having recreational drug use and the teens were NOT addicts and they didn't suffer consequences. A few years ago. I worried that publishers wouldn't pick up the story if the characters just did it and it wasn't so bad. I ended up comprising with that one. MC's dad was always disputing custody of younger siblings and momeorried that the father might use the MC's drug use as a ploy to taker her and her younger siblings.

That way, there was a fairly realistic possible consequence, but not the "drugs are super dangerous" trope.

That was a few years ago. I might tackle a few incidental rec. drug scenes in the future with no major consequences. The readers have ALWAYS been ready to handle that stuff. I just think collection buyers have less pressure than they did even just 10 years ago.
 

Cekrit

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Holly Black's "Valiant" features swears int he first chapter, a mother sleeping with her high school daughter's boyfriend, homeless kids living in the depths of an abandoned subway and most importantly those kids shooting up something I believe they call "nevermore" which is essentially fairy dust ( it gives them powers)

This is still a YA novel
 

apisco

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I'm writing about a teenager and her sexual desires throught the years
it all starts when she loses her virginity at 16 and starts having more sex
it has problems with parents/school/friends

it's not a love story nor erotic
but is it still a young adult novel?
 

Cobalt Jade

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I was not impressed at all with Valiant. It read like a legitimate adult novel about street kids that had been mashed up with a more conventional runaway teen YA plotline, with the element of the mom having sex with her daughter's boyfriend tossed in for shock value.
 

jekwrites

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I feel like--in America in particular--adults are so willfully ignorant to the realities of what being a teenager is like. Authors have a responsibility to portray accurate experiences for their readers. That being said, no two experiences are the same, meaning that what one reader finds distasteful or controversial might resonate with another. As a reader, I craved books that were honest and unflinching in the way they addressed what it was like to be a teenager, as a writer I can't help but feel obligated to hold up that mirror for someone else looking to see themselves represented--to see that they're being heard.
 

Emermouse

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I agree, Jek. There's a quote by Laurie Halse Anderson that I've saved, because it is just so damn apt.

I grew up as a teenager with parents who were disconnected from me for their own reasons, so I remember so clearly that confusion and that sorrow. I could go on for days about our disrespect and disregard for adolescence in American culture. Americans are all about loving kids when they’re small and portable, but for some reason … boy, do we abandon our teens. We abandon them in families, we abandon them as a culture, we don’t do a great job in most high schools of educating them properly. We disrespect them, and at the time when they are in most need of good, fun, loving, trustworthy relationships with good adults, we step away. And that’s really stupid and awful. So I try to write stories that tell the truth about hard things because kids need to know it; the world is hard and it will kick your ass if you’re not careful.

That lines up with my experience as a teenager. For all the time and money culture spends on marketing to teens, overall, said culture has nothing but contempt for teenagers. It shoves them to the side when they most need guidance and if they screw up in the slightest, it comes down on them like a ton of bricks.

YA Fiction pretty much saved me as a teenager. The message culture has about teenagers that it keeps reiterating, is, "These are the best years of your life." You have no idea how it feels, as an angry depressed bully victim to have a genre that acknowledges the pain you're going through, goes, "You know what? This fucking sucks and you have every reason to be sad and angry about it."

I remember those feelings when writing YA.
 

LittleSimon

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No swearing at all reads quite artificial, in my opinion. I mean, young adults swear.