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Thread: Sunpiper Press / Sunpiper Media Publishing

  1. #1
    Chamran
    Guest

    Sunpiper Press / Sunpiper Media Publishing

    I don't remember what site but I thought I read some bad reports. Can anyone verify?

  2. #2
    Chamran
    Guest

    Good or Bad

    Has anyone dealt with Sunpiper press?

  3. #3
    vstrauss
    Guest

    Re: Good or Bad

    According to its website info, it's a literary e-zine. However, it may also publish books represented by the associated literary agency, Sunpiper Literary and Consulting. This literary agency offers a number of paid adjunct services such as manuscript consulting and "test marketing", whatever that is--a conflict of interest--and there's no evidence it has made any sales or that its owner has prior professional publishing experience.

    - Victoria

  4. #4
    robdee3
    Guest

    Sunpiper Press

    Dear Forum,
    I have attempted all day long to straighten out the false accusations made by Preditors and Editors about Sunpiper Literary. I am posting the accusations made by Mr. Kuminski of P&E (Mr. K) and the responses given to him by Sunpiper (Mr. D). Read the statements and make your own decision. I stand behind every word. All I want is the truth to be known. No more, no less.
    Thank you
    ---------------------
    Mr K.:
    I would rather not find your company to be a scam. I tried to inform you gently that some of your company's activities are too similar to scams that have taken place so that you would know why P&E considers those as grounds for not recommending your agency.

    Mr. D:
    I would well like you to note that you included the word SIMILAR, meaning you have no proof and it is your opinion. Point taken to me, hopefully, point taken for you.

    Mr. K:
    Out of the hundreds of agencies, there are only two or three with publishing arms. They also consider those as separate businesses, but new writers can't distinguish the difference. Because of that, P&E doesn't make a distinction, either. One, in particular, even states that their publishing arm will not accept work from their agency in order to avoid any appearance of conflict. Consequently, P&E doesn't give them its "not recommended" rating.

    Mr. D:
    Furthermore, I would like for you to understand that people who REQUEST (mind you, they aren't solicited. There were several that contacted you about their submissions to Sunpiper Press and they knew full well why they were submitting) to be published are INDEPENDENT PUBLISHERS who do not belong to publishing houses. The Sunpiper Press submission guidelines state that they should not send in work that they think might need protection. I don't tell them to copyright it first then send it in, I TELL THEM NOT TO SEND IT IN IF IT CAN BE SOLD. You speak about appearance---again, NOT FACT.

    Mr. K:
    Additionally, I tried to get you to distinguish whether the publication you operate is meant to be a catalogue or a regular publication. I also tried to get you to answer whether the authors, in particular those not represented by Sunpiper, who were published by it received any compensation. Like it or not, authors are entitled to something for their work when you use it not just once, but twice by including some of it in an anthology to be sold. The first instance when it's done for promotional purposes to benefit them is not a bad idea or action, but selling it in an anthology later is unless they're compensated since that falls under second printing rights.

    Mr. D:
    As I stated before, NO ONE IS COMPENSATED BY SUNPIPER PRESS TO POST AN ARTICLE. I don't charge them, they don't charge me. The anthology (again, you assume facts not in evidence) is regarding the essay contests where--I clearly stated, that there would be two annual awards of $500 given to winners and every essay used, the submitter would get a free copy of the book as compensation. No other work printed on Sunpiper Press will be in any kind of anthology--again, you assume or rely on "APPEARANCE"--not facts.

    Mr. K:
    I also tried to point out that you have some conflicting information in what's listed on your website and what you've stated to me in your emails. You list one individual on the website as an editor yet you state you send out work to be edited at your expense. If you mean that you send work to that in-house editor at your expense, then that's all I needed to know in your email. Your email that I'm now responding to definitely lays to rest that issue as a source.

    Mr. D:
    In-house, out-house. If I acquire an author and think the work needs editing, I am entitled to use whomever I choose as long as I'm paying the bill. Wouldn't you think? Ok, that was sarcastic and unprofessional--I apologize. I think that had actually put that concern to rest so I should have left it alone. Please forgive me--this hurt me really bad in the beginning but I'm beginning to have a little fun with it.

    Mr. K.:
    By the way, because you listed them as staff on your website, they're considered in-house regardless of their locations. Also, I do not comment on who, if anyone, shared complaints with P&E because we do not divulge journalistic resources.

    Mr. D:
    This is true and I will state for the record YOU DID NOT divulge anyone, nor have I asked you to. I think we can be professional and agree on this. But again, just for the record, am I required to uphold a contract with someone where there isn't one? I've spent 10 years in the legal profession, Mr. Kuminski. If I tell people submitting to Sunpiper Press, "Sunpiper Press is a non-paying market. I promise to give you a byline if I post. I'm not going to try and sell your work." What obligations does that put upon me? NONE However, if I have a signed contract (which again, was taken directly from the National Writer's Union website) and everyone that has one signed with my signature on it says that I have followed everything within that contract and NOT ONE OF THEM HAVE SPENT A DIME OF THEIR OWN MONEY, where are you getting your facts? Again, I can only relate to your words of "similar" and "appearance"---but your listings are not based on facts--HARD FACTS. You've got to admit that now----come on? Right? Right? No? Oh well--I still think so and I think my clients will think so too.

    Mr. K.:
    As to copyright, it is considered standard within the industry for the publication to obtain copyright for each issue, not the author. Beyond that, Federal law changed in 1989 so that registration is no longer required for copyright protections to apply to one's written work. Formal registration is necessary only when seeking damages in court. In other words, copyright protection is considered automatic now in the US for most writings save a few exceptions which you can find listed on the website of the US Copyright office. Having the author apply for copyright for excerpts and short stories that are published in your publication effectively puts the expense on them for protecting your publication. And as far as books, a registered copyright on a manuscript, in order to print an excerpt, will drive away many publishers from considering a submission for reasons I outlined before.

    Mr. D:
    Please quote to me whom I've told to get a copyright? Again, on the Sunpiper Press submission guidelines I express NOT TO SEND ANYTHING THAT IS NOT PROTECTED OR COPYRIGHTED. I do not want to give away free what can be sold. People who submit excepts from their novels already have a copyright. THEY ARE INDEPENDENTLY PUBLISHED THEREFORE THEY ARE NOT SEEKINNG PUBLISHERS SO WHY DO THEY CARE IF THEY DRIVE THEM AWAY? Most of them are frustrated with the beauacracy within the publishing industry is the specific reason why they go independently. I have NEVER asked anyone to copyright their work, just to make sure they submit something they are not trying to sell and the stuff that they sell is protected.

    Mr. K.:
    I do apologize for not giving you the full answer initially when you first contacted me. However, I had to review your site and my notes to make certain that I gave you a full answer and did so when I found there was more than one reason. Beyond all this, I do not apologize for P&E taking a strict and narrow viewpoint using its criteria. When your website was previously reviewed and rated, it presented several obvious conflicts of interest based upon P&E's criteria which were developed based upon what successful agencies did and what scams did instead.

    Mr. D.:
    When my site was PREVIOUSLY (I'm guessing that means when you were still neutral because I remember you had it stated that you had no information that Sunpiper charged for their editing services---I might also add that if that was the issue, you stated above that I had eased your concern--but I still get a negative connotation) reviewed and rated, it presented several obvious conflicts of interest----this is your statement. My question to you, Mr. Kuminski, is, "How many times did you contact me to respond to any of those "obvious conflicts". I can tell you how many, NONE. But someone mentions something (unfounded), it was like the Bat signal being flashed into the night sky, being the thorough Watchdog company, you labeled me in a negative connotation and THEN I have to contact you to get any answers. Is this good business? Are you giving people good information from fact or just "Dave's opinion"? You NEVER ASKED ME--I had to come to you.

    Mr. K.:
    If you do not want a "not recommended" for your site from P&E, then I suggest you not mention "editing" as one of your featured services as that gives a wrong impression. You can always discuss the need for editing with authors you want to represent and let them know it will be free, though why you'd want to offer that is beyond me since it's an expensive proposition and offers no guarantees that a publisher will find the work you represent to be any better.

    Mr. D.:
    You question why I want to offer my clients editing services---and I'm paying for it? It is an expensive proposition and offers no guarantees that a publisher will find the work you represent to be any better.........hmmmmm. Have you ever read un-edited work? As my website states, I'm more interested in developing TALENT, not droids. How can you make this statement and at the same time imply that your service is for the little guy? Oh, did I mention that Robert Denson III of Sunpiper Literary & Consulting pays for the editing? I want to slide that in, just in case I haven't said that. There are young people out there that want to be heard and there are beauracrats that don't want to listen (I'm not saying any names)

    Mr. K.:
    Another action you can take is to stop recommending that authors register their copyrights. It's not necessary and it's counterproductive to what you and they are trying to accomplish in gaining an acceptance with a legitimate royalty-paying book publisher.

    Mr. D.:
    For the umpteenth time, I am not telling people to copyright their work---however, I do copyright drafts of manuscripts for some authors that might come up with an original idea and storyline (original idea--what a concept). That is just in case someone tries to STEAL that original idea. If a publisher picks up a manuscript and runs it after they have done all of their changes, the only one with legal standing to refute a copyright is.....the author. And why would they do such if a publishing company is signing a contract? And if they sign over the contracts, they give the publisher rights to publish it. Mr. Kuminski, do you have auto insurance? If you do, it is obviously because you have a wreck every day. Why else would YOU take out insurance if you don't need it?

    Mr. K.:
    Lastly, decide whether you want to produce a catalogue or a regular publication. A catalogue is not a conflict of interest, but a regular publication is. Not only that, but a regular publication uses up print rights, as does an anthology. I suggest you limit it to your represented authors and use it as a catalogue for publishers to view even though many are reluctant to cruise the Internet seeking manuscripts since most, if not all, are flooded with submissions. Basically, what I'm trying to say here is this method has been tried several times over the last eight years. Only one site that I know of has ever managed to make any sales to legitimate publishers in that way. So far, I believe they've made only three in the last four years, though that number could now be higher. You'll have to decide what to do with the anthology idea. Though it sounds noble, it's basically a losing proposition for your agency since most anthologies do not sell well, particularly when all the authors are not well known or do not include any notable names that the public would seek out. Couple that with the obligation you want to take on of sponsoring a contest for young writers with large monetary prizes and it becomes another huge expense on you.

    Mr. D.:
    You suggest I limit to represented authors (even though its whole intention was to help all authors and readers)---"The idea has been tried many times over the last eight years. Only one site has ever managed to make any sales to legitimate publishers in that way." Again, didn't I say that Sunpiper Press did not make money. It is a spotlight and showcase for EXPOSURE. That is it. No one is going to buy anything off the site---except Independent publishers that place excerpts of their books for people to see and get interest. Then, people will buy their book and Sunpiper gets......Sunpiper gets........ummmm.....I'm not getting any revenue on that--only the author. Then you state "Though it sounds noble, it's basically a losing propositin for your agency since most anthologies do not sell well, particularly when all the authors are not well known................." Mr. Kuminski, that statement is the very reason why new writers don't get an opportunity. NO ONE WANTS TO GIVE THEM A CHANCE. "....sponsoring a contest for young writers with large monetary prizes and it becomes another huge expense for you." Mr. Kuminski---MY GOD---Mr. Kuminski--that is what it is all about. Giving back and giving hope---and you frown upon this--saying I'm shady. I only wished someone would have been willing to listen to me when I was young. How can you be the Watchdog for new writers when you are discouraging me from HELPING OTHERS?

    Mr. K.:
    While you may be following guidelines from P&E, there is still an appearance based upon what's on your website that speaks otherwise. I really think you should review your site. Perhaps you will see how it can be interpreted differently. As I stated above, I'm not looking to label you or anyone as a scam, but P&E follows its rating criteria very strictly. Mind you, there are some very large, legitimate, professional agencies that are also not recommended by P&E because they have operations that P&E considers out of line with its criteria. We don't make exceptions for anyone. If a business within the writing industry wants a positive recommendation from P&E, they have to live up to our criteria. Therefore, if the wording gives a wrong impression, we can only judge by what we can view and not by the intentions that we can't see within the person.

    Mr. D.:
    Dave, I'm sure by now that you are aggrevated with me. Good reason---I was very sarcastic. Tis my personality. Some find it cute BUT MOST DON'T. Through all of my sarcasm, I still believe that you are doing something good. Don't ever stop. To learn on yesterday that you gave me that listing was DEVASTATING to the least. It shook the foundation of my company and some of my writers. I was first angry with you---but I wanted to be professional and present my side---that didnt' work. Some of my authors were uproared and myself, constantly being in the legal field theorized a lawsuit. For you to set criteria for certain listings on your site, list all the negative activity, then label someone that is an indirect accusation of unethical and unlawful behavior. There are laws against that, Mr. Kuminski. It's called libel and you are responsible if you cannot PROVE your claim....and I know that you can't. I even wanted to suggest that you just remove Sunpiper's name ALTOGETHER from your site and let people investigate through my clients----but I don't think any of that matters to you. I knew, when I began, that I would be an oddball in this business because I did not THINK like editors and publishers. My methods may have been tried and failed by others, but my success and reward comes from making a difference and helping change people's lives---not from the amount of money I make. I am a black man born and raised in Birmingham, Alabama---the HEART of Dixie, believe me, this is not the first time I've been black-balled (excuse the pun). But I will make a difference, Mr. Kuminski. I will change lives. Sunpiper will succeed in its goal. Check back with me in 5 years---you are going to be surprised. I'm out to make a difference---the money will come afterwards.
    All smart alec comments aside, Dave (if I can still call you that), I did not mean my statements in a hateful manner. My sarcasm is a way of having fun but I was not trying to have it at your expense--and if I did, I apologize. Thank you for the advice, thank you for the scrutiny and thank you for making this a learning experience for me. You keep doing what you do. I think a little different about Preditors and Editors as I did before, but hey---you think a bit different about me--so I guess we are even. You made the statement earlier that you thought I used this as a "promotional tool" and my thought, at the time, was that was furthest from the truth---but you know what? What I have stated to you today is what Robert Denson III and Sunpiper Literary & Consulting stands for and if people don't like that stance---they shouldn't work with me. They have that choice, but I won't change who I am to appease them. I have more character than that---------SO, IT'S JUST ME AGAINST THE WORLD. A rebel WITH a wonderful cause.

    I'm not going to keep bothering you. Again I thank you.

    Much Respect

    Robert Denson III

  5. #5
    robdee3
    Guest

    Re: Good or Bad

    I hope my posting answered your question as to my Goodness or Evil intentions. Thanks, at least, for your interest.

    Respectfully,
    Robert Denson III
    rdenson@sunpiper.com

  6. #6
    HapiSofi
    Guest

    Re: Good or Bad

    Well, that settles it. Sunpiper may or may not be intended to be an honest undertaking -- and some of its practices are those we associate with dishonest ones -- but either way, its proprietor has no idea what he's doing.

  7. #7
    robdee3
    Guest

    Good or Bad

    You say that my company uses practices that "we associate with dishonest ones". Who is we? If I may ask. And, what of which I stated in the post do you deem "dishonest"? I guess, bottom line is, I don't have a problem with you saying "In my opinion, this guy's plan is never going to work." And I don't mind you calling me names or stating your opinion that "I don't have a clue." You are most certainly free to your opinion, however, if you are going to publicly call me "dishonest", don't you need to base that on my actions, not what you "think" I'm doing. I will be glad to give you a list of ALL of the people that have worked with me and they will speak for me. For you not to know me, never worked with me and label me "dishonest" is wrong.

  8. #8
    SKMartin
    Guest

    Re: Good or Bad

    I am an author (signed by a contract) with Sunpiper Literary & Consulting. I am quite familiar with the press that you are all referring to. But why all the negative? Mr. Denson has only provided a platform for younger writers to display their work for FREE! Anything and everything that has to do with the press is out of his pocket and asks for NOTHING in return. In fact, he has taken it upon himself to have my work reviewed and edited without asking me for so much as a penny out of my own pocket. Unfortunately, we have gotten to a place where our society doesn't believe that a person can do anything for the greater good without trying to "get something" out of it. What a shame. I commend Mr. Denson for defending what he believes in, especially since his authors know how dedicated he is to his profession, as well as his ethics. I can understand how businesses in the past have skewed a writer's view, but this is a legitimate business supporting new and established writers. I certainly wouldn't be putting my dreams into an amateur's hands. Mr. Denson has proved to me that he's got what it takes. And as for the press--it's a wonderful FREE thing!

  9. #9
    Jesse45034
    Guest

    Re: Good or Bad

    I have know Mr. Denson with Sunpiper for about six months. I was looking for an agent and he seemed interested. After a couple of months and a lot of emails, I decided to take a chance with him. Here is what I have learned:

    Regardless of how his website may read, he has never charged me for anything or tried to refer me to a for-fee service. My book was read by an editor who made suggestions at no cost to me, a review was done by a reviewer at Publisher's Weekly at no cost to me, a book cover was developed at no cost to me, and submissions have been made to publishers, again at no cost. Perhaps I am just lucky, but I think not.

    It seems to me that Mr. Denson has good intentions, but some of his ambitions to help new writers have been misinterpreted. I noticed the "services" offered, but since he was paying for them (in my case anyway), I was not concerned. If anyone has had a different experience, I would like to know. Somehow I think he has not done this.

    Anyway, I think he is getting a bad rap on P&E. Still, it might be a good idea to make a few changes to his website to clarify exactly how he is operating his business. Does he know what he is doing? I think he has a clear goal and high ideals, but may be lacking in experience. I cannot hold that against him because I am not exactly an expert at this publishing stuff either. I do have a great respect for his ambitions.

    I hope P&E get off his back until they can determine what, if anything, he has done to get the "Not Recommended" label.

    Jesse

  10. #10
    SimonSays
    Guest

    Re: Good or Bad

    Why would an agent waste time and money (either his or yours) developing a book cover for an ms he's repping?

    Why would he waste time getting reviews for an ms that does not have a publisher? Why would a reviewer at PW waste THEIR time reviewing a book that has not been or is not about to be released?

    Most agents use their sales skills to convince their contacts to read their client's work. They pick up a phone, or send an email or take them to lunch. Most agents have a palm pilot full of contacts at all the publishing houses. They do not design book covers or get reviews to garner interest. Their belief in the project garners interest.

    It sounds to me that regardless of Mr. Denson intentions what he lacks is both knowledge and contacts in the industry. An agent with neither of those things is basically useless.

  11. #11
    SKMartin
    Guest

    Re: Good or Bad

    WOW! So quick to judge! I certainly can not speak for Mr. Denson, but I believe that he is only trying to go above and beyond the call of duty to strengthen his backbone within the literary community. I suppose that there is a certain internal structure to follow--but how can it hurt to expose your clients and establish a potential fan base before your their book is officially released? Essentially, it boils down to this: If we don't make money--he doesn't make money. Bottom line. If he wants to try other avenues to get his author's going, and out of his own pocket, nonetheless--you won't catch me complaining. Let's face it; he is new to the game, but it takes time to execute a good plan. He's definitely got the plan and now all he needs is the time. This post will only fuel his ambition and he'll try that much harder! THANKS!!!!!

  12. #12
    topaz
    Guest

    Re: Good or Bad

    I have dealt with Sunpiper Press. They have one of my stories featured at the moment. They have promised me that they would never use my stories for profit without my consent first. Sunpiper Press is a good stepping stone for building a portfolio. They should be commended for spotlighting new and emerging talent.

  13. #13
    SimonSays
    Guest

    Re: Good or Bad

    Just because you are not being scammed does not mean you are being helped.

    One of his authors refers to Mr. Denson as "a major player in the industry." Obviously Mr. Denson wants to project that image because he has chosen to have that particular quote on the Sunpiper site.

    To be a "major player" in the industry implies MAJOR sales to MAJOR houses. It implies a reputation throughout the industry. I'm sure if you conducted a poll of actual PLAYERS in the publishing industry - none of them will no who Mr. Denson is. So how can he possibly be a major player?

    His authors who have been previously published are alumni of Publish America and America House - two glorified vanity publishers. It's nice to see these writers have taken the step to seek representation this time around, but methinks they have not done all of their homework.

    Again, I cannot speak for Mr. Denson's intentions and whether they are noble or not. But he is definitely representing himself as something he is not. Whether he will one day be what he claims to be remains to be seen. But the fact that he claims to be something he is not does not bode well for the future.

  14. #14
    robdee3
    Guest

    Re: Good or Bad

    Simon,
    I have made no such claims. I have NEVER told anyone I was a 'big shot' or a 'major player'. As a matter of fact, I have only represented that I am NEW in the business and my intentions is to grow. Did you read my website and the About Us page? I state:
    ------------------------
    Robert Denson, author/poet, founded Sunpiper Literary & Consulting, P.C. in January of 2004. His mission was to create a platform to promote and support writers with unique voices that are often left out or overlooked by mainstream literary circles.

    Robert would much rather look at himself as an Executive Producer than a literary agent.

    "I think regular literary agents look for good projects to represent; projects based on popular culture that are hot at the moment. That is how they generate revenue. Nevertheless, if your work doesn't fit their profile, they won't accept it. It's the way of the business."
    ----------------------
    I then go on to say:
    ----------------------
    Robert's idea of creating success in the literary market is based on author exposure and extensive marketing. Not just big banners, but grass root marketing.

    "Some authors think that the only way to have a successful book is to have it accepted by a large publisher. Does Sunpiper wish to work with publishers like Bantam, Doubleday, Viking or Warner-of course! Who wouldn't? But making a work successful does not amount to success. Though these companies provided excellent resources, you still need to market your product. With effective marketing, a large publisher is a great benefit, but it is not an absolute must."
    -------------------------

    Are these the words of a man trying to misrepresent anything? I'm not asking you to think I'm the greatest literary agent in the world. I'm not asking anyone to endorse me. All I am requesting is that you not label me "dishonest". That's all my friend. I have worked hard to INVEST and help cultivate authors with a message. You don't have to insult me for investing in something and someone I believe in.

    Don't judge me unless you know me. If I mistreat you, tell the world! But don't label me or insult me because I don't fit your mold.

    Robert Denson III
    rdenson@sunpiper.com

  15. #15
    SimonSays
    Guest

    Re: Not good

    ďRobert Denson* is a major player in the industry.* I know that he and his staff at Sunpiper will give my book the most professional treatment and the greatest exposure possible.* I look forward to working with the entire staff.Ē

    Robert - the above quote comes directly off your website from one of your author pages.

    Obviously somehow this author got the impression that you are a major player - as no amount of research in the world would ever lead someone to draw that conclusion, I assume he got the impression from you.

    Your decision to include the erroneous quote on this author's page leads me to believe you are looking to perpetuate that perception by others who read the page.

  16. #16
    James D Macdonald
    Guest

    Re: Good or Bad

    Sunpiper is excited to represent Emanuel Carpenter and his new work of fiction that addresses the subjects of love, sex, marriage, divorce, and relationships. Carpenter, best known for his humor book, ďA Job Ainít Nothing But Work,Ē and for his book reviews at The Midwest Book Review, says he is very pleased to be represented by the agency. Carpenter was quoted as saying ďRobert Denson is a major player in the industry. I know that he and his staff at Sunpiper will give my book the most professional treatment and the greatest exposure possible. I look forward to working with the entire staff.Ē

    Sunpiper Authors

  17. #17
    robdee3
    Guest

    Re: Not good

    You know, you are correct. And I have enough character to say that I was unaware that was stated on the site. But this is the only thing you address, Simon. What about the other things I stated? If I am man enough to tell you that I didn't realize that was there and have it removed, does your theory still hold water? And as you speak of RESEARCH, that is what all of this nonesense is about. People believing they know my intentions without talking to me, my clients or anyone that has worked with me. Who is guilty of not doing their homework? I'm many things my friend, but all I say is based upon FACTS. Everything you write here is based on your opinion--which you are entitled to--but can you make that opinion without knowing, talking and researching me?

    Check the page tomorrow folks. It won't be there.

    Robert

  18. #18
    SKMartin
    Guest

    Re: Not good

    It's about to get ugly in here! Keep in mind that what someone else says about you, is simply their opinion. I thought that we learned that in elementary school?????????? Robert has never projected himself to be something that he is not. He's a new agent, trying to establish a new business, with the intention of helping undiscovered writers get a chance at some kind of a break. Oh...did I mention that he doesn't get paid if we don't sell books? Yeah, I thought I did. Maybe it's time to get off of his back. He's only trying to help us get a little further than we could on our own. I'm assuming that you have had extensive experience with agents and publishers, seeing how skeptical you are. Are you rich yet? Most of us won't be from writing, but it's nice to be able to share what we have written with the literary community. Maybe you should knock off that chip on your shoulder.

  19. #19
    Whachawant
    Guest

    GOOD CALL

    Everything you write here is based on your opinion--which you are entitled to--but can you make that opinion without knowing, talking and researching me?
    ---...nice shot!!---

  20. #20
    SimonSays
    Guest

    Re: Not Good

    I appreicate your admissions that you didn't know what your client said on his author page (not quite sure I believe it, but I appreciate it) It will be a sign of true integrity when and if you remove the misrepresentative statement from your website. I'll keep an eye out for that.

    As for the rest, I made no mention of your exchange with Dave. I have no opinion on that one way or the other because I don't know enough.

    I did do some research. I googled you and nothing came up. I checked out your website and found no sales. I checked out your authors and found the ones who had credits - were self-published credits.

    Some of your authors came to your defense saying what you had done for them. It is my understanding that what you are doing for them (designing covers, getting reviews) is totally unnecessary. What you should be doing is getting their manuscripts into the hands of publishers. Preferably ones that pay writers rather than the other way around. Because you appear to be wasting time, energy and money on the other things, I can't help wondering how much you know about the business and how many contacts you have in the business. If you have contacts, why can't you get them to read a xeroxed, double spaced copy like all the other agents out there? Why do you feel you need reviews? Why isn't your belief in the project enough to get it read? It should be.

    I have repeatedly said your intentions may indeed be noble. But intentions mean nothing if you don't have the knowledge base to back them up. And it is my belief that agents with no knowledge of the business or contacts in the business are useless.

    I realize that agents have to start somewhere. But most of them start IN the business - either working for agents, publishers, etc. so by the time they take on their first client they already have a network of people and knowledge of publishing. Do you have either?

  21. #21
    nicepoet
    Guest

    This whole discourse is unnecessary!

    Hey! I'm a major player in my home and on my city block! And I've got something to say about all this. How 'bout the one from the Bible: "He who has not sinned, cast the first stone." Or similarly, the adage: "People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"

    Seems to me SimonSays is throwing stones, and without provocation or from having had some personal negative experience with Sunpiper.

    Perhaps Simon (may I call you Simon?), you have a chip on your shoulder? I have a few too. Mainly against hunger, poverty, crime, war and people who don't appreciate Robert Frost! But so what? I see no reason to take it out on Sunpiper or even upon any minor player who's making ends meet working down at the local Taco Bell. Give Mr. Denson and Sunpiper a break or at least the benefit of the doubt. They've victimized no one nor committed any act of wrongdoing. How 'bout waiting until they do something wrong before assuming they have and discoursing upon it in non sequitur prolificity? Consider the Old Abe quote: "If you look for the bad in someone, you will surely find it."

    I won't look for it in you, Simon. So don't you look for it in Sunpiper or anyone else without justification. People are innocent until proven guilty in this country. Or am I mistaken? Are we living in communist Cuba?

    So far, Sunpiper and everyone associated with Sunpiper have been courteous, professional and fair with me. So my chips are on their making a success of themselves and me and everyone associated with them. Why assume the worst? And not the best?

    And I believe they are honest and above board until proven otherwise. As for those other kinds of chips I mentioned a moment ago, I will continue to hurl them at hunger, poverty, crime and war, and at people who don't appreciate Robert Frost! Okay, I forgive people who don't appreciate Robert Frost. Albeit reluctantly!

  22. #22
    SimonSays
    Guest

    Re: This whole discourse is unnecessary

    Nice Poet -

    I have said in every single solitary post on this subject that Mr. Denson's intentions may indeed be honorable.

    But I don't think it's a leap to question how he is representing himself when one of own clients perceives him to be a major player in the industry when he clearly is not.

    Many new authors do not know how the publishing industry operates so they jump in and take the first offer that comes along. The publishing industry operates on contacts. It's who you know. If an agent has no contacts, then he cannot do his job for his clients. It is not true that most agents will not give new writers a chance. Most agencies do accept queries from writers regardless of their publishing experience. They accept and reject clients based on quality and marketability.

    If Mr. Denson wants to represent authors who's work is niche oriented and off the beaten path, that is fine. As long as he has relationships with publishers who publish niche oriented work that is off the beaten path. And if he does have those contacts, then he should not have to be wasting his time with reviews and book cover design. He should be picking up the phone and pushing your work.

    As a side note, I can't help noticing that all Mr. Denson's defenders are first time posters on this site. However did you all find out that this little discussion was going on here? Did he send out a mass email to his entire client list informing you he was being dissed? Do you all have esp? Are you all the same person posting under different names? Hmmmm....

    I can't imagine a legit agent even bothering with such nonsense.

  23. #23
    robdee3
    Guest

    Re: This whole discourse is unnecessary

    First of all, letís get something straightóIím not faulting Dave. I apologize for misspelling his nameóit is Kuzminski. Dave is doing what he think is right just as I amówe just donít see eye to eye.

    As for the post, when you mentioned it, I did remember Emanuel sending out a free press release but I did not realize the statement was on MY website. You can believe me or not but, check the website tomorrow. Iíve sent the request to my web designer.

    As for my connections, Iíll shout to the world, ďMY BACKGROUND IS IN LAW AND MANAGEMENT, NOT PUBLISHING.Ē Iím not ashamed of that and I donít claim otherwise, but as you so eloquently stated, my authors are either self-published or went POD (except Steve Manchester). These people have already been mistreated by the literary marketplace and if you read my website, you will see that my whole purpose was to benefit the underdog.

    I believe that there is strength in numbers. I believe success comes from exposure and making sure you seek out your targeted market. This was the reason I established Sunpiper Pressófor exposure. During my creation, I decided that I could allow independent authors to showcase their work as wellóthe more the merrier. They supply an excerpt from their novel; my readers read it, find interest and possibly buy their book. I donít make any money from that, but I did help someone---and thatís all Iím trying to do.

    Simon, if you are a writer (and Iím sure you are) you know that there is nothing more important than someone appreciating your work. I want younger people to get interested in writing because, if you are a writer, you know how wonderful it is to learn to express your creativity. I got into this business because I enjoy it, not because Iím trying to get rich. My investment is for LONG TERM success. One day, I will be a ďmajor playerĒ in the literary market, but not tomorrow. Mr. Carpenterís statement might have been premature, but not necessarily untrue.

    Look, Iím trying a different route and each person that approaches me about representation knows that. If you research my website, Iím a rebel in this business trying different methods because there are a lot of people out there that are tired of the bureaucrats that donít want to hear them. I havenít promised any of my clients that I will make them rich, but I have promised that I would invest and help them. Tell me what is wrong with that?

    Each and every client I have knows that they can terminate their contract, no strings attached, at anytime---but they choose not to. Why do you think that is, Simon? My philosophy is that if the hierarchy wonít listen to one of them, they will listen to a multitude. There are a lot of people who believe in what I am doing to help authors and support me. But, because I donít fit your mold, you call me incompetent. Thatís not fair.

    The first week I launched Sunpiper Press in September, I got about 35 hits and 5 people join my forum. By the end of month, I had over 500 hits and 55 people signed up. Now Iím averaging about 1200 hits a month. Thatís pretty good exposure for a struggling authoródonít you think? No, Iím not making money, but I am REACHING PEOPLE. The better the audience, the more likely the success---for ANYONE because itís free. Tell me what is wrong with that Simon? Why do you label me dishonest?

    And as for your last shot here. I am spending my time talking to the likes of you because I value the ordinary people. I don't sit up in a high rise and pretend I know all and I'm big stuff. You don't know it, Simon, but I'm reaching people now. And those that are not as smug will hear the message and gravitate.

    Simon, NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF THE COMMON MAN. You'd be amazed at the strength of the human spirit.

    All of you reading this that think I'm full of crap--that is your opinion. As I told Mr. Kuzminski--check back in 5 years.

    What exactly do you do for a living Simon? You can pick me apart and tell me everything I am doing wrong---I'm wondering why you have so much time to spend here. I'm defending my character---what are you defending?

  24. #24
    SKMartin
    Guest

    Re: This whole discourse is unnecessary

    See Simon, it's like this--we've already become a family at Sunpiper. We all support one another because we have all been selected--not only for our work, but also for our character. After talking to other authors represented by Sunpiper, I believe that to be true. Don't think that our manuscripts aren't being submitted, just because Robert takes additional measures that the competition doesn't! HELLO! I see that you have been scorned, probably more than once, and I am truly sorry that you feel it necessary to shun the underdog. However, I'm not going anywhere! It's so sad to be such a pessimist--isn't it Simon?

  25. #25
    SKMartin
    Guest

    Re: This whole discourse is unnecessary

    And by the way, I am a member under my real name here. I joined this particular forum under my pseudonym for a good reason. I figured that if you took it upon yourself to dig into my business, you'd possibly find any potential mistakes on my website and then I wouldn't have to worry about hiring someone to edit for me. (Yes...I am naturally this sarcastic.) Love ya, Simon. And I understand that you're looking out for people JUST LIKE ME, but you've got this one ALL WRONG!

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