Gone With the Wind

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OMG - you had a falling-apart GWTW too? My third copy has the cover sellotaped back on!
 

HelloKiddo

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...how many times have you two read it? :Wha:
 
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...how many times have you two read it? :Wha:
I can't give you an exact figure, but somewhere between five and ten, with episodes of "I'll just read this scene/chapter," countless times.

Don't even ask how many times I've seen the film. At least 20. At least.
 

Mr Flibble

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I was having a thunk about the abuse thing re him making her wear that dress.

Is it abusive to show someone the pain their actions have/might have caused? To face the consequences of their actions, and to see that they might have hurt someone..who then refused to believe they could ever do something so awful? that one scene was (imo) the start of Scarlett growing up a bit., the kernel for the moment when she realises what she really wants...because Rhett showed her what she was doing to a sweet, kind lady, and how that sweet kind lady refused to believe all those awful things people said about Scarlett, that here was someone who liked her anyway, because Scarlett had helped her when she didn't have to (although she only did it because she promised Ashley).

Rhett held up a mirror in front of Scarlett and said 'This is who you are. This is what you want to do, ruin this woman's life and she still doesn't hate you. Either be that person in the mirror, or don't. But if you're going to be her, then you have to BE her, not hide away because you can't face what she's done.'

Rhett loved her despite her flaws, even though they drove him crazy. He also loved her enough to say 'Enough is enough' when she went too far. If he hadn't, he'd have been a doormat. Being angry with someone for behaving like a bitch to a good person who mever wished you any harm...

Is that abuse? I don't think so. YMMV.

I always loved how Rhett was so very respectful of Melly - even when he didn't respect much else- and that he saw what a good person she was. I also see why such goody goodies can be annoying to the Scarlett in us :D
 
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Marian Perera

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I was having a thunk about the abuse thing re him making her wear that dress.

Is it abusive to show someone the pain their actions have/might have caused? To face the consequences of their actions, and to see that they might have hurt someone..who then refused to believe they could ever do something so awful?

Excellent point. If Rhett's only motivation had been "punishing" Scarlett for being caught with Ashley that morning, he could have beaten her up in the privacy of their home. Society would probably have condoned it.

Instead, he came home to find Scarlett hiding in her room, refusing to go to Ashley's birthday party that night. In other words, she was refusing to appear in public at Melanie's house, which would have hurt Melanie and might even have made her wonder if there was truth to the allegations. I think Rhett had every right to call her out on that.

Could he have been nicer about it? Absolutely. But his choice of words (and the red dress) was meant to drive a point home to her - and Scarlett might well have remained there if he had been gentle and coaxing. Instead, he made it clear she had no option other than to go out and behave as the loyal friend and loving sister-in-law Melanie believed she was. Because to do otherwise would be to hurt a kind, innocent woman who had never done her any harm.
 
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Lyra Jean

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In such instances, I always say, "You can't steal a man who doesn't want to be stolen." So, if such a woman can steal your man...let him go. He's not worth your time.

Ashley, though? Oh, he wanted her. Trouble is, he was scared of her too.

I really, really need to work on Mount TBR, but damn...Scarlett, she calls me...

Also, whenever someone says in this thread, "Scarlett's a bitch!" I think, "Hey now, what have I...oh, wait, for once they're not talking about me." :D

Didn't Ashley kind of see Scarlett as basically a one night stand, like he just wanted to have sex with her but not actually marry her. I think he told her that but I can't remember if it was only in the movie or if it was in the book as well.
 

Marian Perera

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I'm going to the library Tuesday and will be checking it out as well. I'm staying away from the sequels. Or has anyone thought to write their own sequel to GWTW?

I'd love to see a sequel that's better that those two travesties, but somehow I doubt there'll ever be one that even comes close to GWTW.

Although the end of the novel seems like Mitchell left the door open for a sequel, such a sequel would have a huge upward climb. Most of the iconic characters from GWTW would be dead. Rhett would be recovering from the effects of near-alcoholism, as well as grief over the death of his only child; it would take him a long time to even trust Scarlett again, much less get back together with her. Plus, a lot of the drama and tension in GWTW came from the war. I don't know if there was enough happening in the South during Reconstruction to provide subplots and a strong historical framework for a sequel.

And part of the greatness of GWTW, for me, was that I never knew how the book would end. At first I hoped Scarlett would get Ashley, then after Melanie was introduced I hoped she wouldn't, and then I wanted her to fall in love with Rhett, then I grew increasingly afraid that their relationship was doomed, and finally the last chapter poleaxed me. What could a sequel do to even try to match that?

Alexandra Ripley's Scarlett was utterly predictable in comparison. Scarlett's goal stayed the same from the first to the last page, and I felt certain that she would get Rhett, so I wasn't surprised when Ripley killed off his wife and child to hand him back to her. It was a category romance with the main characters coincidentally named after the ones in GWTW.
 
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HelloKiddo

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I was really ready to let this discussion go, but I googled GWTW now that I am rereading it (I was not looking for this info, I just stumbled upon it) and guess what I found?

Margaret Mitchell's first husband was named Berrien “Red” Upshaw (name sound familiar?) It's believed by many GWTW researchers that the character of Rhett Butler was based on Red. Red supposedly believed it, as does his family. Apparently they had a lot in common and shared similar personality types, according to the articles I found.

Info on Red:

Mitchell married Berrien “Red” Upshaw in 1922, but they were divorced after it was revealed that he was a bootlegger and an abusive alcoholic.
Mitchell married Berrien "Red" Kinnard Upshaw on September 2, 1922, but the marriage was not a happy one. Upshaw beat Mitchell, and the violence continued even after the marriage was annulled in 1924.
[Mitchell] was pursued by...Berrien "Red" Upshaw, an ex-football player and bootlegger...She married Upshaw in September 1922... Margaret's marriage to Upshaw was stormy and short-lived, culminating in marital rape

I didn't research this extensively, obviously, just sharing what I found.