Gone With the Wind

Selah March

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I wrote an paper in English 402 about how Melanie Hamilton Wilkes represents the enduring legacy of the Old South, and Scarlet O'Hara Hamilton Kennedy Butler represents the rise of the New South, and how the crash and burn of her third marriage and the death of Bonnie Blue Butler is a symbol of the the failure of Reconstruction, but her final comment ("After all, tomorrow is another day.") is a harbinger of both ultimate reconciliation and the resiliency of a people that will not be defeated by unfortunate circumstance -- even circumstance they've brought upon themselves.

If I remember correctly, there was also some stuff in there about how Ellen O'Hara and Ashley Wilkes were two sides of the same coin as secondary symbols for those who insisted on clinging to/grieving for the old ways -- one noble and strong, serving as a model for behavior even in death, and one weak and spineless, with no real practical use in a changing world.

Of course, I have no idea if Mitchell actually intended any of this, but it got me the A.

Mostly, I've always had a huge crush on Rhett. :)
 

aruna

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I can't admire Scarlett; I just don't admire egoism in any form and shape, no matrer how succesful it turns out to be. I do like the way she got Tara back on its feet but I wanted to see character growth, change, more softness coming in. I can get a woman not wanting children, but I don't get (or admire) a woman having a child and not loving it.
 

Carlene

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Whenever I bitch about the flaws of a book I'm reading my husband asks me this question - is it a good story?

I believe most people love GWTW is because it's a good story. It encompasses a fascinating part of our history, war, has some interesting characters and a love story. What's not to like?

Carlene
 

johnnysannie

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I have always admired Scarlett; she is a survivor and does what is necessary to survive. She saves the family plantation, she works in the fields so that the family can eat, she sells herself out to the highest bidder to get enough money to survive.

She is ruthless, stubborn, headstrong, and tough.

What's not to like?

BTW as much as I loved GWTW at an early age and still do, I hated the "sequel" - that one sucked.
 
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I can't admire Scarlett; I just don't admire egoism in any form and shape, no matrer how succesful it turns out to be. I do like the way she got Tara back on its feet but I wanted to see character growth, change, more softness coming in. I can get a woman not wanting children, but I don't get (or admire) a woman having a child and not loving it.
You don't have to like Scarlett; few people do - the whole point is that she's interesting. And she definitely did grow throughout the book.

And plenty of women had children they didn't love in days when there was very little you could do to stop them happening.
 

aruna

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You don't have to like Scarlett; few people do - the whole point is that she's interesting. And she definitely did grow throughout the book.

And plenty of women had children they didn't love in days when there was very little you could do to stop them happening.


Oh, I agree she's interesting -- without her there wouldn't be a book!

yes, she did grow -- but she never learnt that she is not the middle of the universe.

And I know that some (I won't say plenty) mothers didn't love their children back then, and now, too. That doesn't stop it from being wrong.


ETA: I'm talking about the movie, mostly; I read the book only once, eons ago, and can't remember.
 
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Anyone called Scarlett totally is the centre of the universe. :D

Is it wrong not to love a child you never wanted? Well...what else was Scarlett supposed to do? She needed protection and/or money, which meant a husband, which meant babies. It was either that or let her family starve. It's not like she could nip out to the surgery to get a prescription for the pill.
 

aruna

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Yes, even if you never wanted it, it's wrong. Sorry, but for me that is inviolable! Your mother, Scarlett my darling, was wrong. Maybe she couldn't help it, didn't know hot to help it, but she was still wrong.

I hate to admit this in a forum full of indomitable Americans (and Scotswomen!) but I'm a great admirer of the Melanie-type character -- those of quiet, unobtrusive, background strength. In real life they are often the ones who win through and support everyone else.
 
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In my own mother's case, she had a way of stopping herself getting pregnant. She was just too stupid and selfish to use it.

In Scarlett's case? How on Earth was she supposed to stop herself getting pregnant?

There's one part of the book where she says to Rhett that there are to be "No more babies. You know what that means, don't you?"

By that time he was willing to stay away from her because he hated her then (or at least strongly disliked).

I still say it's unrealistic to expect a woman to love a child she never wanted. Be outright cruel? No. But you can't love on demand. I don't care if a child came out of your body. Love is not automatic.
 

aruna

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. But you can't love on demand. I don't care if a child came out of your body. Love is not automatic.

I think back then women didn't even consider whether they wanted babies or not -- they just happened, and with most mothers love does kick in automatically. If it doesn't? Well, at the very least, you can care for the child as if you did love it, simply because you know you should; the child didn't ask to be born any more than you asked to have it, or make sure it is well looked after; for certain, the baseline is do no harm.

But at best: it's possible to learn to love, if you try really hard, and really want to. I wouldn't expect a woman of Scarlett's character to do this, though...
 
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I think back then women didn't even consider whether they wanted babies or not -- they just happened, and with most mothers love does kick in automatically. If it doesn't? Well, at the very least, you can care for the child as if you did love it, simply because you know you should; the child didn't ask to be born any more than you asked to have it, or make sure it is well looked after; for certain, the baseline is do no harm.

But at best: it's possible to learn to love, if you try really hard, and really want to. I wouldn't expect a woman of Scarlett's character to do this, though...
I think this is what I would do. I would hope.

I'm inspired to read the book again, despite my mountainous TBR pile growing to Everest proportions.

A friend once said, "You should read GWTW every five years; you get something new out of it every time."
 

aruna

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Oh, and I'm so glad your mother did not use birth control! There would have been a huge black -shaped hole in AW and we would all have been peering into it shaking our heads and muttering, where is she, where is she, where is she...
 
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Something would have been missing from the universe. :D

And we wouldn't be having this conversation about how something was missing, and we would never know that something was missing, because I wouldn't be here to say "Imagine if I wasn't around..."

Okay, back to GWTW now, people, before my head asplodes. :D
 

regdog

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For the time in which it was written, 1936, having a female MC who was unapologetically ambitious, non-maternal, intelligent, shrewd, and wealth driven and openly in love with another woman's husband wasn't the norm.

It delved into the subjects of slavery, and women in society. It did not paint a rosy picture of either subject and gave a brutal depiction of war.

And she wasn't originally Scarlett, she was Pansy O'Hara.
 

regdog

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Her full name was Kate Scarlett O'Hara Hamilton Kennedy Butler. Try fitting that on a driver's license :D


I like female characters who are unapologetically ambitious. Being a shrinking violet doesn't go with the women of my family
 

Marian Perera

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I hate to admit this in a forum full of indomitable Americans (and Scotswomen!) but I'm a great admirer of the Melanie-type character -- those of quiet, unobtrusive, background strength. In real life they are often the ones who win through and support everyone else.

I admire Melanie too. She's my favorite character in the book after Scarlett and Rhett. Not to mention a great example of the fact that one can be quiet, gentle, self-effacing and respectful of conventional standards while also being harder than steel. I love the scene where she walks into the living-room to find India and the other women trash-talking Scarlett, and then puts them all in their place.

India : I retract nothing.
Melanie : Then it is fortunate that you are no longer living under my roof.
India : Melly, you're my sister-in-law--you wouldn't quarrel with me over that fast piece--
Melanie : Scarlett is my sister-in-law too. And dearer to me than any blood sister could ever be... I want it understood that any of you who do not call on Scarlett need never, never call on me.

About Scarlett's children - I felt she cared for them insofar as she was capable of doing so. When she was poor, she made sure Wade was fed and clothed to the best of her capacity, but as far as spending time with him or nurturing him, I don't think she was up to it because she had so much else to do with just keeping the plantation in some semblance of order.

She probably thought that the priority for today was making sure everyone stayed alive, and the task for tomorrow was being a lady, fitting neatly into polite society and becoming a good mother. Except that when tomorrow came, she'd been changed to the point that she could no longer do those... and her children were no longer comfortable with her either. There's a section in the book where she realizes Wade is tongue-tied and intimidated when she speaks to him, but he bubbles over with Melanie and adores Rhett.

Scarlett always faces the consequences of her actions - if not immediately, then later on down the road. That's another thing I love about the book.
 

Stlight

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Best piece of luck that happened to Scarlet in the whole book was when Rhett finally left. Talk about an abusive man. And he was abusive for his time because he delighted in going against society and forced Scarlett to do so as well. Public humilation is abusive. Private humilation thy name is Bell Watley.

And yes, Scarlett was in love with Ashley, but she never actually did anything to try and take him away from Melanie, and she was the one who saved Melanie.

Of course my grandmother told me that no lady would have acted as Scarlett did. When I protested that her sisters, her children and Melanie would have died if she hadn't done what she did, grandmother said it would have been better if they had died and she remained a lady. So I guess I missed something.

And Rhett was the one who insisted that Bonnie Bell could take that jump and should try it. He over-rode Scarlett's attempts to stop it. So Bonnie died as Scarlett's father had.

I admired Scarlett and Melanie. I detested Rhett and just felt sorry for Ashley, not because of Scarlett, but because he couldn't change. At least he had Melanie to help him survive emotionally in the new world.

ETA The sequel was unspeakable. I pretend it doesn't exist.
 
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Are you talking about the same book? Rhett, abusive?

And Scarlett not doing anything to steal Ashley? Um...yeah.

I am seriously puzzled that anyone could think that about GWTW.
 
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She lost two children between the book and the film - Wade and Ella Lorena.
 

aruna

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hummph. I really am old. I read it when I was about 20, I think-- nearly 40 years ago. I've seen the movie several times since then, though, so that is what has stuck.