Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

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HConn

Re: Recent events

UJ, I hope that by "first draft" you mean first draft you'd be willing to show as a first draft, and not the get-the-words-on-the-page draft.

Let me draw some parallels between James' first draft and the opening chapter of the book I read.

First, both of them were supported by solid research. Is there anything more reassuring, when you pick up a new book, than finding that the author(s) know the subject they're writing about? It really helps me, personally, feel that I am in good hands.

Second, both raise questions that would not be easily answered. What're the brass cannons for? Who is the woman's lover? Also, you get the sense that the answers will not be given easily; they will have to be earned.

Third, both have the sense that there is a huge blank space on the map that the protagonist is about to enter.

I'm sure there is more, but that's what jumps out at me.
 

James D Macdonald

Re: Recent events

That's "first draft" as in "may have major changes after we get to THE END."

This first chapter is roughly 1/3 the length of the first get-the-words-on-the-page draft. That draft ended in a different place, had false starts, mounds of detail that were cut with huge sweeping red-pencil marks, and otherwise was a mess.
 

maestrowork

Re: Recent events

Jim, it may be interesting and of educational value if you post both chapters (or just part of it) side by side as comparison....
 

James D Macdonald

Re: Recent events

Alas, I no longer have the first version of the chapter.

I do have some very-first-draft around here, though... which I will post if I'm ever feeling particularly masochistic.
 

jeffspock

Re: Uncle Jim's first chapter

I was trying to think what the voice and the style reminded me of. I think what it most brings to mind is the opening of the Edgar Rice Burroughs stuff, when John Carter or one of his other heroes takes off from an entirely ordinary 19th century "now" into some odd "elsewhere." Perhaps Jules Verne as well.

It also made me think of (sorry about this one) Umberto Eco's essay "How to Recognize a Porn Movie." I quote:

"...for the transgression to work, it must be played out against a background of normality." In other words, in order to draw the viewer into the ludicrously improbable parts of the movie, the rest of it must be told at a level of detail so mundane that it is accepted without question.

That is what I get from the details of shipboard life and the journey the protag takes. It is the presentation of everyday activities--the excellent research to which HConn alludes--to the point that the reader (viewer?) accepts what comes next. We are assuming, of course, that what comes next is far from mundane everyday life.

If you ever get tired of writing novels, you could always...

Jeff
 

JuliePgh

Re: Recent events

Jim,

Congratulations! To expand on HConn's question regarding your 'first draft', how many times did you revise to get from your first get-the-words-on-the-page draft to this version? I'm constantly revising, revising, revising... wondering just when I'll reach that point when I can say "I'm done!"
 

Gala

revising

Writing is revising.

You may never get to the point "I'm done." You may just accept that you're done revising a particular work, and it is ready for publication in it's current state.

Sometimes even after a book is published one wonders if they could have made parts of it better or different.
 

HConn

Re: Recent events

On another point, James, did you say elsewhere that an average first novel might sell 5K copies?
 

Duesylady

Re: Uncle Jim's first chapter--Brass Cannon

Ah, I think there may be some reason Uncle Jim is trying to avoid the magnetic forces...;)
 

maestrowork

Re: Recent events

Grisham sold 5000 copies of A Time To Kill the first time around.
 

James D Macdonald

Re: Recent events

Yep, 5,000 to 10,000 copies is a reasonable number to expect for a first novel.
 

CaoPaux

Re: Recent events

So, given 20,000 (?) bookstores, one can hope that at least one customer for every four stores will buy a copy of Book X. Weight that toward those stores within direct reach of the publisher's marketing campaign and the local area(s) of author and friends/family, and....um, er, did I mention I got a "D" in statistics. :eek:
 

maestrowork

Re: Uncle Jim's first chapter--Brass Cannon

With a first novel, you'd be lucky to get into 50 bookstores. :lol
 

novelator

Re: Uncle Jim's first chapter--Brass Cannon

With a first novel, you'd be lucky to get into 50 bookstores.

Depends on your marketing plan, both pre and post publication.

You will have to market, no matter who publishes the manuscript.

Mari
 

vrauls

Re: Show, Don't Tell

-- Whenever I read that, Rush starts playing in my head.

This is one of the most common pieces of advice for writing fiction. Well, you know what? I don't get it. Or maybe I sort of get it. In any case, I'd really appreciate some advice.

First of all, I see the difference between:

TELL

Sam threw the can of spam angrily.

SHOW

Marsha winced as the can of spam narrowly miss the glass fish tank and bounced onto the green shag carpet.

“I have had enough of processed pork products.” Sam said, a vein in his forehead pulsing rapidly.


And I definitely see the difference between:

TELL

“My lawyer will see your pork-peddling rump roast in jail!” Sam yelled angrily.

SHOW

“My lawyer will see your pork-peddling rump roast in jail!” Sam shook his fist at the terrified checkout girl. “In jail, I tell you!”

Where I seem to get derailed is not in action or dialog, but in description. For example:

The building where Sam’s anger management classes were being held was a dingy grey government cracker box. The neighborhood was as sad as the faded placards in the front window. Wilted stalks of unidentifiable plant life drooped listlessly. To Sam, the whole building resembled a giant can of… well, he suspected this was not going to go well.

Of the top of my head, that sounds a lot like TELL, TELL, TELL. But I’m not sure how else to describe the setting. And this happens whenever I try to describe something or someone.
 

James D Macdonald

Re: Uncle Jim's first chapter--Brass Cannon

With a first novel, you'd be lucky to get into 50 bookstores.

Sez who? Your publisher has a full-time marketing department trying to get all of their books into every bookstore in the country.

(If your publisher doesn't have that marketing department, why are they your publisher?)

First novels can get wider distribution than second or third novels. Hard to believe, but true.
 

sc211

Re: Recent events

Vrauls,

Actually that's some fine "showing." It would be "telling" if you said, "He looked at the building and didn't like it."

I used to get hung up on this as well, feeling that I couldn't make that grave error of telling. So everything had to be shown. It was like typing with one hand behind my back - I was missing half my tools.

You can't show everything - you'll wear both yourself and your reader out. Just go with what you got and use the telling mostly in descriptions or scene switches.
 

James D Macdonald

Re: Show, Don't Tell

Off the top of my head, that sounds a lot like TELL, TELL, TELL.

Well, yeah. That's what description is. Balancing act, that's what this art is.

Pick the significant details, give them, let the readers fill in the rest according to their experiences and needs.
 

Yeshanu

Re: Show, Don't Tell

First novels can get wider distribution than second or third novels. Hard to believe, but true.

This has been mentioned as a problem elsewhere on this thread, and in others too, I think. So what's the solution? How do you avoid that second and third book letdown because the first one only had average sales?
 

reph

Re: Canned meathead

The building where Sam’s anger management classes were being held was a dingy grey government cracker box. The neighborhood was as sad as the faded placards in the front window. Wilted stalks of unidentifiable plant life drooped listlessly. To Sam, the whole building resembled a giant can of… well, he suspected this was not going to go well.

Vrauls, never mind the novel. You should write humor instead.
 

James D Macdonald

Names and Books and Such

How do you avoid that second and third book letdown because the first one only had average sales?

It isn't that the first book only had average sales. The first book's sales are what they are; no one holds 'em against the author.

The problem comes if the second book's sales aren't better than the first book's. A rising curve is good, a falling one is bad. You see the logic.

What do you do then?

Write your third book under a pseudonym, accept a first-author advance, and try again.

The editors aren't fooled; they know who you are. The bookstores aren't fooled. The readers aren't fooled. But that's the way it works.

Remember the theater owner in <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00001U0E1/ref=nosim/madhousemanor/" target="_new">Shakespeare in Love</a> saying "It's a mystery"?

It's a mystery.

(Note: If the first book Really Tanks, not just average sales but abysmal sales, the time to change your name and enter the DAW Books Witness Protection Program comes a bit sooner.)

(Note Two: Some people run two or three pseudonyms simultaneously, so that if one of their names isn't having a great career they can switch their efforts to a name that's doing better, rather than having to start as a "new author" again.)

(Note Three: If one of your names does Very Well Indeed, your earlier books under your other names can be reprinted as "By Joe Buffalo, Writing As Fred Finque." In case you ever wondered what that sort of byline was all about.)

I wonder if I'm going to have to explain the Death Spiral soon?
 

maestrowork

Re: Show, Don't Tell

So...

Do you use your real name (or some variation of it) the first time around and hope that your book sells well (for a first novel, anyway)? And you can becoming a household name later (JK Rowling, for example).

Or do you use a psuedonym just in case it tanks (I believe Stephen King first wrote under Bachman. True? False?)? Then you can try again...
 

Clearrr

Re: Show, Don't Tell

No, Stephen King wrote as Bachman after he was well established. As I understand it, it was a personal test to see if he was being published because he was Stephen King or a good writer.
 

Yeshanu

Re: Canned meathead

Wow! Clearr, you get the prize for post number 2200 on this thread! :grin
 

Lori Basiewicz

Pseudonyms

I would think it also depends on what your legal name is and whether you wanted to write under it and all sorts of other factors. Basiewicz. I mean, come on guys, I don't want to spend the rest of my life trying to explain how to pronounce it and for spelling it. As for signing it, it's alreadly lost 3 to 6 letters, depending on my mood and how many times in a row I have to sign it. :ack

I keep telling people I'm looking for a Smith or a Jones to marry, if that ever happens, maybe I would reconsider. :grin
 
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