Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

Four and Shi...

I believe that's Chinese, not Japanese.

However, it is curious to note that group of 4's (or multiples) are prominent in Chinese culture. E.g. like I mentioned before, majongg is played by four players. The Gang of Four during the Cultural Revolution. The four seasons. Four walls of Imperial Palace. The "Heavenly Gods" is a group of four. The four major directions (may I remind you that the Chinese first invented the compass). A poem in its simplest form has four verses. Idioms and sayings usually have four characters/words (e.g. "Kung Hei Fat Choy"). The number "4" symbolizes stability (like a fort with four sides). Pagodas usually have 4 or 8 sides (some have 6, but rarely so). I Ching has 16 symbols.

Re: I agree with steve.

The info regarding the number '4' in Japanese culture is correct. In fact, the number isn't even allowed in some public buildings.

By the way, much like English, some Japense words have myriad meanings with Shi certainly being one of them.
FYI- If memory serves:
Zero- maru
Ichi- one
Ni- two
San- three
Shi- (also yon) four
Go- five
Rokku- six
Sichi- seven
Hachi- eight
kyuu- nine
Ju- ten
Ju-ichi eleven (and so forth)

Example- nijuuichi- 21

4

Actually, Maestro, Jeffspock is correct about the negative connotations of the number four in Japan (pronounced 'shi' when counting, as in 1-2-3-4). I work with a Japanese girl and she told me that some old hotels in Japan don't use the number four in their room numbers, much like the western dislike of the number thirteen.

As Uncle Jim said, tidbits like this can really add colour to a story.

PS - I see Liam got there before me. :grin

Re: Careful with numbers--

Shi is the same in Chinese -- same pronounciation as "death." As we all know, the Japanese language was derived from Chinese...

So I am not disputing that fact. However, one needs to look beyond that to fully understand the Asian cultures. For example, in China, you don't buy a house with the number "4" on it. You don't give a gift with the number 4... however, what I said about the "group of 4" is also true in the Japanese culture -- for example, Haiku comprises of 4 verses.

Re: Four and Shi...

"Haiku comprises of 4 verses."

Huh? A haiku comprises (consists of) three lines.

Haiku

Haiku is 3 lines

1st line - 5 syllables
2nd line - 7 syllables
3rd line - 5 syllables

My girlfriend likes me to write her those for some reason. :shrug

Beaver :jump

Re: 4

Oops, my mistake. I keep getting it confused with Chinese poems.

Re: I agree with steve.

LiamJackson:

The info regarding the number '4' in Japanese culture is correct. In fact, the number isn't even allowed in some public buildings.

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FWIW, the same is true in Korea. It's common for public buildings there to skip the 4th floor, just as American buildings frequently skip the 13th floor.


Have Fun,
- Steve Eley

4 what it's worth,

I think this thread needs to work on the basis of relevancy, if there is such a thing. Matters of cultural importance, no matter how interesting, could surely be debated elsewhere...?

Plotting

I just read an interesting quote on story vs. plot on Sara Donati's home page:

"Story is what happened; plot is the artful rearrangement of what happened."

This lead me to wonder if there are any given arrangements that work better than others in absolute terms. I've studied musical theory, and there you will find that there are very clearly defined guidelines for how best to arrange a piece, so maybe the same holds true for stories?

Of course, there are as many arrangement styles as there are arrangers, and different rules apply depending on whether you write for a string quartet or a boy's choir, but still. Any thoughts on this, Jim?

And I leave you with a wonderful quote to juxtapose the above:

"Music is best left unperformed." T. Pratchett

art

is rearrangement. Unperformed music is dots on a paper.

i think cultural information is, as uncle jim said, "fascinating" stuff and plainly relevant. as to "shi," i did not know until maestro pointed it out that "shi" means the same in chinese as it does in japanese. quite opposite to, for example, the lakota.

china was the birthplace of so many things and probably was not entirely wrong when it thought of itself as the center of the world. not everyone agreed. twas big controversy when funakoshi renamed karate from "china hand" to "empty hand" about a century ago.

some say karate originated when bodhidarma came from india in the fifth century bc to teach the then rather slovenly monks at the shao-lin temple a new set of physical exercises to improve their spiritual acuity. it evolved and branched off from there. good thing Grasshopper learned the art at rather a later date. would have made for boring TV scripts if he only knew finger-kung fu.

Re: art

Though Cultural Information about China and Japan is no more relevant here than details of horsemanship might be.

You need to be aware of as many details as you can, and you need to stay as close to the truth as you can in your fiction, to give your readers the confidence that you, the writer, know what you're doing, and to avoid throwing readers out of the story.

Thus, if you have your character going to room 4 on the fourth floor of a Japanese building, you might have some reader throw your book across the room. You want to avoid book-throwing.

<hr>

The main thing that you need to do is be consistent. You can be consistent with the real world -- as in the examples given of Japanese house numbers. If you're writing fantasy or science fiction, you need to be consistent with your own creation, sufficiently that the readers will be aware that the hidden structures are solid.

It's not enough to be consistent. You have to be consistent with something.

The primary thing to be consistent with (and here is art!) is that you have to be consistent with your theme. Your book is a lie, through and through, but the theme is true. It's that truth the readers seek. The human mind seeks truth.

Knowing and keeping your theme in mind will provide the answers to plot questions as they arrive. The details will appear if you know your theme.

The theme also governs, and is governed by, the treatment. If you're writing a humor piece, and it isn't funny, it's lost. If you're writing horror, and it isn't scary, you're lost.

Here's another secret: Write your book as if every element, the characters, the plot, the story, the events, were literally true. Find a treatment (serious, humorous, detached, intimate) that best suits the presentation of the theme you're using. Make every detail consistent.

Make every plot point so clear that even the stupidest, most distracted reader will be able to follow it. Make every plot point so interesting that even the smartest, most involved reader will find it inherently satisfying. Be clear without being boring.

If you aren't consistent, the readers won't keep their suspension of disbelief. They won't live the illusion. They won't pick your book back up.

When one bearing burns out, the engine stops. Pay attention to the bearings. Your details are the bearings that the engine of your plot turns on.

Re: 4 what it's worth,

I concur with Uncle Jim 100%. Stories (novels, shorts, etc.) are always about truth. As writers (or filmmakers) we tell lies so that we can deliver the truth. The best stories are the ones that resonate with the readers at the deepest level -- the "truth" level, if you will.

Yah.

Exactly.

truth

I heartily concur. The truth is paramount, but any mis-step along the way, and your message will never be received. The number four thing is merely an example of the kind of thing that can either ruin or add flavour to a story. In the novel I'm currently working on, I have a Japanese character. I now have one more piece of information I can use to help make my character both more believable and more interesting.

Re: art

Anything you can do to make your characters or scene more realistic is a good thing. Have your Japanese character become neurotic because she has to go into room 4 on the 4th floor of a building... but be careful not to use too much of the stuff... your book may turn into a big bucket of cliches.

Re: art

There's even a term for putting too much of your research on the page: "I suffered for my art, and now it's your turn."

Keeping the rule that only words that reveal character, support the theme, and advance the plot belong in your novel should keep you from the worst excesses.

Research your characters, keep them consistent with your research, but (like the iceberg of cliche) 90% should never be seen.

Protagonists and Parallel Plots

Thank you, Uncle Jim for all your help and instruction. I have been reading for a while - but this is my first post.

I have a question about protagonists and parallel plots.

Is there a general rule specifying that there must only be one main protagonist? Do I risk alienating a reader if I have a couple, or more? Should I try to play one up to the exclusion of another? Is there any acceptable, or status-quo methodology that should be observed?

And the next question I have concerns parallel plots. How soon in the story should they come together? Should I have an obvious main theme that ties them together? I don't want the story to appear fragmented - and I don't think it does, but then again, I know the ending. <sigh>

Thanks again for all your help. I have studied and applied your methods religiously.

And my husband thanks you for the pie.

Re: Protagonists and Parallel Plots

No, no one came down from Mt. Sinai and said "Only one protagonist!"

At any given spot in your story the readers should have no doubt as to which character they're watching. That isn't to say that you can't have several of equal or nearly-equal importance.

As to parallel plots: Everything comes together at the climax.

Heck, I even did one novel with two separate stories, decades apart, told in alternating chapters, that only come together at the climax.

As to the main theme being obvious: All that matters is that it be there, that you know it, and that you stay consistent with it.

Glad your husband liked the pie.

Re: Protagonists and Parallel Plots

Uncle Jim:

As to parallel plots: Everything comes together at the climax.

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I recall an SF novel by Iain M.Banks, Inversions, which also uses the separate-storylines, alternate-chapters device, except that the stories do not come together at the climax. They come together long before the book begins, and only by implication.

The book was all right. Banks is a very experimental writer, and while I think he barely made this one work, it did have a weaker ending than many of his other stories. (E.g. Use of Weapons, which has one of the creepiest endings I've ever read.) I was reading it with my wife, and we kept waiting for the Big Reunion that never came. Great story otherwise.


Have Fun,
- Steve Eley

Re: art

I have two separate themes that intertwine throughout the story, then they come together at the end. Always tie up loose ends and don't keep your readers hanging.

Re: art

Remember the master rule: You can do anything at all provided it works.

What "works"? Something that the readers accept. More than accept -- they approve with the sound of rapidly-turning pages.

Re: Protagonists and Parallel Plots

I personally--me, just one reader--have very little patience for novels that have two distinct, seemingly-unrelated storylines. I often get bored with one and don't read it, to the detriment of the work, I'm sure. The example that leaps to mind is Dave Duncan's fantasy _Past Imperative_--people tell me that the series as a whole was really good, but I couldn't get past the parallel, unconnected storylines. I read half the book (the half I was interested in) and never picked up the sequels.

Now, I've read the book Uncle Jim refers to--_The Apocalypse Door_--and enjoyed it a heck of a lot. Why the difference? Well, partly because I trust Uncle Jim as an author; and partly because they were separated in time, not in parallel worlds, so I expected the timelines to intersect at some point.

So for *me* as a reader, the more the protagonists are separated, the more I want some reassurance that they are eventually going to interact. (I suppose there must be some books that pull off having their separate protagonists never interacting; but I think they would be rare beasts.) And I think most readers' default assumption is going to be that you're going to bring your protagonists together in some fashion: you'll get some slack at first, as the readers wait to see how you're going to do it, but the longer you go, the less patience they'll have, unless you drop some breadcrumbs along the way.

My metaphors are terrible tonight; I apologize, and hope this has been somewhat useful all the same.

Re: art

What "works"? Something that the readers accept. More than accept -- they approve with the sound of rapidly-turning pages.

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Good to know. :grin One of my betas read 198 pages of my novel in one night -- and she cursed me for keeping her up until 5 a.m. I take it as a good sign. :snoopy

Re: Protagonists and Parallel Plots

I'm not usually all that big on dual structures, but I liked the one in Apocalypse Door. I too have faith in that author, though I had a brief moment of wanting to throw spitwads at him when, in the second storyline, a woman named Veronica got Mike's face washed. On the other hand, it did spare me wondering whether Mike was going to get out of trouble any time soon.