Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

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PixelFish

Re: Question about names of ships

If I remember correctly, the We're Here was italicized all the way through Captains Courageou.

I can never remember if you are supposed to italize long works and underline short or if it's the other way round.
 

Lori Basiewicz

Re: ships names

In my copy of US Navy's Bluejackets' Manual (copyright 1960), all the ship's names are italicized.
 

ipsda

Re: ships' names

Thanks for the info. I really appreciate it.

I will italicize the ship's name.

Thanks
Bruce
 

reph

Re: ships' names

"Names of specific ships, submarines, airplanes, and spacecraft are italicized, but not such abbreviations as S.S. or H.M.S. preceding them" (Chicago Manual of Style, 12th ed., para. 7.96).
 

MacAl Stone

Re: ships names

I've been re-reading through the links Uncle Jim so thoughtfully consolidated for us. There was, earlier in the thread, a discussion of prologues, during which Hapi Sofi said:
Here's a basic rule of exposition: Never tell the reader something before he or she wants to know about it.

Here's another rule: Reader are interested in setups and backstories because there's a story happening inside them.

Here's a third rule: Start with the story. Then continue with the story. Add in worldbuilding, backstory, setup, etc., only insofar as it's needed in service of the ongoing story.

And it occurs to me, this advice seems valuable with regard to lots of other information, as well--setting descriptions, character appearances, etc. In short, all those details that we, as writers, spend sooooooooo much time lovingly dreaming up, thinking through, and writing down in our notebook/compendiums to ensure consistency (wait a sec--were Bill's eyes blue, or brown, in chapter two. . .)

It's actually tremendously interesting to read through Hapi Sofi's posts, one after another. I dunno who this is (stylistic resemblances to one of my favorite web-logs, aside) but this is obviously REALLY informed and valuable advice from someone familiar with the publishing industry.

Another remarkable exercise is to read through the thread skipping everyone's posts except Jim's.:hail

I sense a couple of cut-and-paste evenings in my future . . .
gawd--sooner or later I really SHOULD sleep.
 

James D Macdonald

Re: ships names

<blockquote>And it occurs to me, this advice seems valuable with regard to lots of other information, as well--setting descriptions, character appearances, etc. In short, all those details that we, as writers, spend sooooooooo much time lovingly dreaming up, thinking through, and writing down in our notebook/compendiums to ensure consistency (wait a sec--were Bill's eyes blue, or brown, in chapter two. . .)</blockquote>

This is related to making every word reveal character, advance the plot, or support the theme. Better still is if the words do two or three of those things all at once. Hold a gun to each word's head and make it justify its existence. Every word needs to be the right word, in the right place. (See above, the discussion of that opening paragraph from a chapter, with the fellow who just got finished with a police interrogation who goes walking by a river with his girlfriend.)

Anything that doesn't add to the story subtracts from it.

Consistency helps you avoid illusion-breaking. But just because you know something doesn't mean you have to tell your readers. The readers will assume that anything you tell them is important, and hold it in mind, expecting you to use the inforrmation later in your story. It's possible to overload your readers.

BTW, if you ever do cut-n-paste all my posts together into one document, if you'd send me a copy....
 

maestrowork

Re: Slush

Maestro - I hate to go way OT here but I'm confused about why you picked #1 over #2. To me they are both confusing, I think its the "instead" that makes my brain tired reading them. With double negatives I feel like I'm unravelling a logic puzzle.

The original (in context) is:

[protag is writing a note to his lover]... I hear the door open and I turn, expecting Kate. Instead, the woman staring at me in horror is not someone I know...[the scene goes on]

There are, of course, many ways to write this. But in this context, I do think it works. None of my betas had issues with it (including an English professor), so I'm quite confident about it. Sometimes, I go for the "sound" and I kind of like the ring to it...
 

maestrowork

Re: I agree

I reiterate:

If a reader tells you that there's a problem in your book at a certain point, he's almost invariably right. If he tells you what the problem is or how to fix it, he's almost invariably wrong.

Right on. Last weekend I fixed a major problem (character issue) that my betas have told me about. They didn't push for the change because it was only one small part of the book and it didn't stop them from reading on... they just said what they felt was "weird" but they didn't offer to tell me what the problem was and how to fix it. Now I see it, I know they're right and I know what the problem is and how to fix it. It's an easy fix.

Moral of the story, always listen to your readers.
 

MacAl Stone

Re: story

Jim Macdonald said:
BTW, if you ever do cut-n-paste all my posts together into one document, if you'd send me a copy....

I'm actually about a third of the way through this project. Strangely enough, it's a pretty coherent document, too. Reads pretty well, even without surrounding posts, responses, questions, etc.

I'll be happy to send you a copy when I've finished, Uncle Jim.
 

ChunkyC

Re: story

Wow, Mac. Uncle Jim--that's an e-book (or paper book, for that matter) I'd read over and over....
 

evanaharris

hmmm

that's something I've been meaning to get around to, Mac. If you need a place to store it, my site's got plenty of space, and I'd be happy to link to it from here (if Jenna doesn't want the complete unedited version duplicated, takign up bandwidth)
 

MacAl Stone

Uncle Jom Doc

Okay, guys--here is the scoop: while I, personally, might think it's a GRAND idea to go through 50 pages of this thread, cut-n-paste together a document, to store on my hard drive, or print out, for my personal use...and I think it a MARVELOUS idea to put the document up on the web, so anyone can link to it, and save themselves the hours of work. . .

It's not mine to do that with. They aren't my words. I'll send the thing to Uncle Jim when it's finished, and he can make whatever permissions for its dispersal he sees fit.

Hope that doesn't make me sound like a hopeless prig:nerd
 

ChunkyC

Re: Uncle Jim Doc

Not at all, Mac. That's why I directed my comment about reading the finished document to Jim himself. I think what you're doing is a great idea :thumbs , and await Uncle Jim's decision on what to do with it.
 

MacAl Stone

*whew*

Thanks, CC -- sometimes I'm not sure when I'm just being uptight and unreasonable. I appreciate the validation!
 

MistyEve

Choosing a setting/location for your story

I've been reading here for days and all I can say is -- WOW -- what a great place to learn.

Thanks so much to all of you for the invaluable input -- most especially to Jim. This is an amazing place!

My question is probably a naive one.

You all sound so 'together' and focussed in what you're doing - leagues ahead of me at this point.

But ... HOW do you choose a location/setting for your story?

When your ideas hit, is the setting already 'there' for most of you - or is this something you choose afterwards?

HOW do you decide?

Also - I am Canadian. (Just over the Rockies from you Chunky).

I'm wondering if most Canadian authors more often set their stories in the US -- rather than Canada?

Do you feel Canadian authors -- do less well, or are less popular than American authors?

Do you feel that books written by Canadian authors, set in Canada, do less well than those set in the US?

Do you think this is even an issue for Canadian writers?

Is this an issue in Britain and other countries?

Thanks guys ...
Eve
 

maestrowork

Re: Uncle Jim Doc

I choose my locations from places I have lived, visited, or read about. However, I don't choose the settings first, then the story. I usually have a pretty good idea of what my story is about, then I look at where to set it. I tend to like to take my readers to some place exotic -- Asia, to be precise. I have been to parts of Asia so I can draw from my own experiences -- what I don't know I can look up.

My second novel is based on, in part, my dad's life. So I have decided to set it in SE Asia, China and North America.

I honestly don't think it matters if you set your story in Canada or US or Europe or the moon. As long as it is a good story, take your readers away!

I think it's fair to say: choose settings that you're comfortable with, and at least know something about. If it's a personal story, set it in your hometown. Or somewhere you'd like to visit again. If it's some kind of journey, take your characters away from this familiar world. But always, story first, settings next.
 

ChunkyC

Re: Choosing a setting/location for your story

Misty! How's it goin', eh?

I know what your concern is. I have felt it too. But like Maestro, Shawn and the others say, just tell a good story. Science Fiction (what I try to write) especially is a genre where readers expect to be taken somewhere else, though truth be told, that is true of all fiction. You are creating a world your readers have never experienced, be it set in New York, Hong Kong, or Calgary. Your characters are ultimately what will draw the reader in.

An example of someone who has had success writing stories set in Canada is award winning Science Fiction author Robert J. Sawyer. Both his agent and publisher are in the USA and they don't seem to have a problem putting out his books.

Nice to meet you, Misty. Enjoy yourself here, it's a great place. :hug
 

DBellamak

Re: Choosing a setting/location for your story

Hi Misty,

I've only ever been to British Columbia (twice), but I remember it being very pretty country. I confess I don't know much about Canadian writers. Do they often set their stories in the US?

Playing on Shawn's input "what you can learn about," experience is a great teacher. Writing takes me places I'd never go if it was just about me. It's not. My characters are people too. They have lives that (in ways) don't include me. They do things I don't normally do.

Setting, for me, helps give a story structure, credibility and continuity. Who my characters are and knowing what they want to accomplish helps me know when and where I should put them.

I'm glad you're here. Welcome.

Chunky--How do you like writing sci-fi? What appeals to you most about it? What sort of obstacles do you find and how do you handle them? I ask because I just recently committed myself to the fantasy/horror realm.

Happy writing,

Diann
 

qatz

misty

i am very glad you are here. welcome.

my tiger book had to do with snow lions in the himalayas, among other things. it started in tibet.

my bodies-in-trunks book has to do with bodies in trunks. it starts where the bodies are found. oh, and lori and others, it way preceeded your interest.

my southwest-explorer books started with explorers in the SW.

my north american novel started with a bank robbery in montreal, and a train roaring into new orleans.

find your story, and that will tell you something about the setting.

if you want an example of someone who uses sense of place well, try robert stone.

as james DMcd says, quite well, a novel is a mansion of many chambers. use the positional theory of chess. put yr pieces in the right places, and they'll perform for you.

i wish you all the best, and here's a welcome hug. ((misty))

Q
 

Wryteress

Re: Canonball into the pool!

Reading this was a fabulous string of lessons! Thanks to everyone who shared their knowledge. :hail

I once read an interesting article (whose origins are, unfortunately, lost in the warren of my brain...) where the writer rhapsodized about the link between the writer's culture and the culture he/she wrote about. In other words, the history the writer grew up with affects the possibilities his or her imagination reaches for. The example given was science fiction.

The article stated that US history showed two (over-simplified) ways of dealing with those who are different: absorb them so the differences disappear, or destroy them. Canadian history includes the first two, but adds a third: an uneasy sort of truce, "you ignore me, I ignore you". The article then went on to list science fiction novels by both Canadian and American authors to support the thesis statement, where the aliens were fully integrated, were bug-eyed monsters everyone was trying to kill, or where contact was new and everyone was trying to figure out how to get along.

What I found particularly fascinating was the link between the concepts a writer absorbs through enculturation and the cultures he or she creates. Since reading that article I took a gander at some of my older stuff, and what do you know, there were bits I could attribute to the old history lessons. Those I could not link to my own country's history were often things I had 'borrowed' from other cultures.

Anyone else notice this? Any questions? Comments? Ripe fruit?
 

evanaharris

Re: Putting it all in one sock

Okay, guys--here is the scoop: while I, personally, might think it's a GRAND idea to go through 50 pages of this thread, cut-n-paste together a document, to store on my hard drive, or print out, for my personal use...and I think it a MARVELOUS idea to put the document up on the web, so anyone can link to it, and save themselves the hours of work. . .

It's not mine to do that with. They aren't my words. I'll send the thing to Uncle Jim when it's finished, and he can make whatever permissions for its dispersal he sees fit.

I believe Jim gave me permission to do this (put it on my website, link to it from here) when I proposed the idea to him a month or so ago...but I never got around to it. At any rate, we'll let Jim have final approval, and, as I said before, I'd be more than happy to host it from my site.
 

James D Macdonald

Re: Putting it all in one sock

Sure, I don't have a problem with that, provided there's credit given, and a link back here.

Though, I think I'd like a chance to go through and edit the final document .... and it's likely the discussion will continue.

I (believe it or not!) do intend to write a few more multi-screen posts on Writing.
 

ChunkyC

Re: why we do what we do & thanks to....

Chunky--How do you like writing sci-fi? What appeals to you most about it? What sort of obstacles do you find and how do you handle them? I ask because I just recently committed myself to the fantasy/horror realm.
Y'know, Diann, this sounds like an idea for a new thread. I'll start one & you can see my personal answers to your questions there. I'll call it 'Why that particular genre?'

And Uncle Jim / Mac / Evan, a big thanks for taking on the 'Uncle Jim Documentation' project. :clap
 

MacAl Stone

Re: Putting it all in one sock

All righty, then! By the way, the document is getting a bit lengthy...lol...so evanaharris--I'm glad you've got room for it!
 
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