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Child 44
If anyone's interested in reading a debut thriller that has become a best-seller (I believe) on both sides of the Atlantic, take a look at Child 44 by Tom Rob Smith. I had difficulty with his (unsuccessful) attempt at writing in omniscient POV (see pp 62-67 for example) His dialogue is presented in italics with a dash and no quotes, which I found annoying. Also, his chapters have no numbers, but the premise of the book is excellent and it's a good read.
And hey, Tom, if you're in AW somewhere, congratulations !
If anyone's interested in reading a debut thriller that has become a best-seller (I believe) on both sides of the Atlantic, take a look at Child 44 by Tom Rob Smith. I had difficulty with his (unsuccessful) attempt at writing in omniscient POV (see pp 62-67 for example) His dialogue is presented in italics with a dash and no quotes, which I found annoying. Also, his chapters have no numbers, but the premise of the book is excellent and it's a good read.
And hey, Tom, if you're in AW somewhere, congratulations !
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Plots, We Got Plots, Part II.
As I've remarked elsewhere, the oldest engines pull the heaviest freight.
As I've remarked elsewhere, the oldest engines pull the heaviest freight.
ToddWBush
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This was more fun than I should have been having at work. Thanks Uncle Jim. Just goes to show you that nothing we writers today come up with is new or original.
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You can use anything at all to delimit dialog. Including nothing, if that's how you roll. As long as you don't confuse the reader, you're golden.
Rules? In a novel?
with art, perhaps never think of originality as newsness. originality simply means that the creative flow is indeed yours.
amc
Yes, but maybe not if you're trying to get a debut novel published. I think Tom Rob Smith had an inside track - established contacts in publishing
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Not really.
Charles Frazier's Cold Mountain was also a first novel, also had non-standard quotation styles, and also sold very well.
You aren't going to hear editors say, >>This is a gripping story filled with fascinating characters that fits squarely into our genre, but I'm not going to buy it because it has non-standard quote-marks.<<
Maybe Tom Rob Smith had contacts in publishing and maybe he didn't (he was a scriptwriter before he turned his hand to novels), but that makes remarkably little difference. All that being the editor's best buddy gets you is a faster read, and a faster rejection if you don't have that gripping story and those fascinating characters.
Know what you're doing and why you're doing it.
Get the gripping story and the fascinating characters: Everything else follows.
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But remember to push the envelope. And keep true to your voice, your style.For your debut, to your thousanth novel. Grow, improve, and most of all, have fun with your writing.
Hey all,
I'm new to the AW forums and I was just lurking around when I clicked these links. I was wondering about all your thoughts on the 'gender' discussion - specifically whether a male protagonist is required to get a boy interested in reading a particular book. I keep reading that 'boys only read books about other boys, or boys won't read books written by a female author'.
How many guys in here read books with girls as the main character when they were growing up? Did you care that the protagonist was female? Did you actively avoid books with girls as the main character? Would you buy a book with a lead female for your son?
I'm just curious. While I'm not there yet, I'd like to write children's books. I'm going to end up writing whatever I write, but that 2nd link really unnerves me. You mean that writers can work hard and write well and get published, and still be rejected at the last second on the basis of some random editor's misconception?!
Ouch.
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Oh, yeah. That ain't the half of it. You should listen to writers at the bar at a convention somewhere, when it's just them talking. The whips and scorns of time have nothing on the literary life as far as making you long for that bare bodkin.
As to reading books with male/female protagonists: When I was young I read all the Nancy Drew books at the same time I was reading all the Hardy Boys books. But then I'm atypical. I grew up to be a writer.
We can say that America still has some issues that it's working through.
Holy crap, I'm not sure I want to know any more writing horror stories!
It's interesting to know that you read Nancy Drew growing up. I have no brothers and I went to an all-girls primary school, so I have no clue what the boys my age were reading at the time. And even though I went to a mixed secondary school, I don't remember much about the boys' reading habits.
Where did everyone else go?
It's interesting to know that you read Nancy Drew growing up. I have no brothers and I went to an all-girls primary school, so I have no clue what the boys my age were reading at the time. And even though I went to a mixed secondary school, I don't remember much about the boys' reading habits.
Where did everyone else go?
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I went to a mixed-gender parochial school*, then an all-male Catholic high school.
*The same school produced two other professional SF writers: James Patrick Kelly, two years ahead of me, and Elizabeth Hand, two years behind me.
*The same school produced two other professional SF writers: James Patrick Kelly, two years ahead of me, and Elizabeth Hand, two years behind me.
On a recent trip to the library I saw a boy race up to the Nancy Drews and settle down to pick out just the right one. His sister couldn't budge him until he made his choice. I thought that was pretty cool, because until then I had no idea boys liked Nancy Drew.
I've been going through this thread and it's a gold mine!
Uncle Jim, I see that you write in multiple genres.
1) a) Do you do it all under the same name?
b) I'd like to write in multiple genres as well, some under a pseudonym. How easy/hard is it to conduct all business under the fake name? (getting paid, signing contracts etc)
2) Do you work on different projects of different genres at the same time, or do you work in one genre at a time? Does it make a difference?
Uncle Jim, I see that you write in multiple genres.
1) a) Do you do it all under the same name?
b) I'd like to write in multiple genres as well, some under a pseudonym. How easy/hard is it to conduct all business under the fake name? (getting paid, signing contracts etc)
2) Do you work on different projects of different genres at the same time, or do you work in one genre at a time? Does it make a difference?
Scribhneoir: Again with the Nancy Drews! Hm, I think I may vaguely recall some guys reading Nancy Drew as well...
*hurries off to conduct informal survey of male friends*
*hurries off to conduct informal survey of male friends*
Because heaven knows no boys ever read Enid Blyton, am I right?
I also keep hearing this argument, but have no clue where it came from, since it clearly has no basis in reality. I personally don't even think most kids are all that aware of who wrote the book they're reading. I know I wasn't - the story meant something, and the series it belonged to, but the author? That came (years) later.
Me.
No (provided the story wasn't about ponies and dolls).
Heck no.
Not unless he asked for it specifically (but then, the same goes for any book; why waste money on something he might not like when it could be obtained from the library for free?).
About the non-standard treatment of dialogue (using dashes iso quote marks, italics etc.)
Why would any writer want to do this?
Why would any writer want to do this?
Personally, I would reserve non-standard treatment of dialogue for very special occasions. For example, a short story that's entirely about a tense bank robbery. The dashes could convey a sense of hurry and tension. I know Cormac McCarthy uses no punctuation at all to separate dialogue from the narrative, in order to achieve a bleak, austere effect (personally I'm not a fan of that device, but plenty of people like it just fine). Italics may be used for non-standard communication like telepathy or talking with the dead, etc... it can lead to a dreamy feel, where the dialogue and the action blends together -- the difference between this and the McCarthy method being that the former feels somewhat "warmer" and less enigmatic, as there is at least something to separate dialogue from action, so we don't have to strain to tell the two apart.
Using dashes for dialogue was actually nearly mainstream for a certain time period. (I think in the 30s - 40s, but I'm not sure). Thus, an author may want to let his story evoke the feel of a certain time period, just like making black-and-white movies nowadays.
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Why not, if it works? I read an excellent short story once (cannot think of the name, dangit) that was being narrated in a very believable 16-year-old feminine voice. She was talking about her night out with her friend, and all the dialogue was formatted something like:
Except the story was much better than that. The lack of quotes and initial caps on each word threw me off for about the first half a page -- and then I loved it, because it let me sink into the idea that this was all one girl's rambling conversation.
I just started CHILD 44, and so I can't give a meaningful review of the whole, but I can say this much: You don't need contacts to get published if you have a first chapter like that. It's vividly bleak, desperate and suspenseful from the very first line; there's no agent on earth who wouldn't read on.
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Not always.
All the contracts (and all my checks) are made out in my real name.
Depending on the state you live in, cashing checks made out to some other name may be as easy as filing a DBA (Doing Business As) at the bank.
Again depending on the local situation you can use whatever name you please, provided you aren't doing so for the purpose of fraud.
Yes. No (heck, it's hard for me to point to one of my works that's all the same genre inside itself). Not to me it doesn't.
Given that Child 44 is set in Stalinist Russia....
Tom Rob Smith already had an agent. And Child 44 was originally written as a film script. It was his agent who suggested re-writing it as a novel.
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Just for fun
The Mary Sue Litmus Test
A web page that asks a series of questions to see if your character may be a Mary Sue. For a reminder of what a Mary Sue character is, according to Wikipedia, Mary Sue.
I try to take these pieces of advice with a grain of salt. Take it or leave it sort of thing. Does it work for your story? Is it necessary for your story? Everybody has their own definition so please take this as a fun break away from your writing. It may inspire you.
The Mary Sue Litmus Test
A web page that asks a series of questions to see if your character may be a Mary Sue. For a reminder of what a Mary Sue character is, according to Wikipedia, Mary Sue.
I try to take these pieces of advice with a grain of salt. Take it or leave it sort of thing. Does it work for your story? Is it necessary for your story? Everybody has their own definition so please take this as a fun break away from your writing. It may inspire you.
As a girl I LOOVED Tom Sawyer & Erich Kaestner's books with boy (& sometimes girl) protagonists too.. I also loved Pippi Longstocking & other Astrid Lindgren's books with boys and/or girls as protagonists..
(I also read Heidi & such, & later on Karl May with mostly male protagonists, & Enid Blyton too..)
Not sure how it is for boys.. If you look at Harry Potter, a male protagonist (with female sidekick/s) probably helps..
Usually girls read more anyway.. (or so I read, not sure if it's still true..)
Many young boys (& some girls) hate to read, & they usually resort to comics or such.. (those helped my Sis start to enjoy reading too..)
You can test your story on some boys anyway
& if they hate it, see if girls like it.. If everyone likes it, you likely have a hit on your hands 
One of my favorite all time books that I have beloved memories of is, Theodore Taylors, The Cay. Some twenty years after reading that book as a boy, I turned my son on to this children's novel. He loved it as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cay
With that said, I grew up with five sisters, and read mostly books with women potags because of my situation. They bought books, I read them. Even romances.
I once e-mailed Danielle Steele about my sisters and how they forced me to sit on the couch and listen/squirm as they read her early novels to me.
Danielle sent me a long rousing e-mail of how my story delighted her to no end.
So, My plan was to grab the book right from the brown paper bag, prior to my oldest sister reading it, and when they sat me down to make me suffer, I'd tell them what the whole book was about, and ruin it for them.
Mission accomplished, right? Well, not quite. I hooked myself in the process.
With that said, I grew up with five sisters, and read mostly books with women potags because of my situation. They bought books, I read them. Even romances.
I once e-mailed Danielle Steele about my sisters and how they forced me to sit on the couch and listen/squirm as they read her early novels to me.
Danielle sent me a long rousing e-mail of how my story delighted her to no end.
So, My plan was to grab the book right from the brown paper bag, prior to my oldest sister reading it, and when they sat me down to make me suffer, I'd tell them what the whole book was about, and ruin it for them.
Mission accomplished, right? Well, not quite. I hooked myself in the process.
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