Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

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James D. Macdonald

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Does that sound reasonable to you so that I have a specific map of the community that I can always refer to and track my character's movements or is it too much detail (I won't go that far in the book, obviously)?


Sure, it's reasonable for you. The readers don't have to know it, but it's probably good for you to know exactly where everything is. (I had a large-scale map of Chicago in 1927 on my wall whilst writing Timecrime, Inc.) (I also had a calendar with important dates noted, so I knew things like the fact that Bugs Moran got out of jail (where he'd been on a Loft-and-Safe beef) on a Sunday.) That material never made it into the finished book, but my knowing it made my writing more confident.

No one but you ever sees anything but the final draft.
 

FOTSGreg

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Thanks, Uncle Jim. I probably would have done it anyway, but just needed the extra vote of confidence.

BTW, I just nailed down a military consultant I think who's willing to advise me on the more military aspects of this book (he happens to be the husband of an AW member in good standing).

I love working with experts.
 

euclid

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Thanks, Uncle Jim. I probably would have done it anyway, but just needed the extra vote of confidence.

BTW, I just nailed down a military consultant I think who's willing to advise me on the more military aspects of this book (he happens to be the husband of an AW member in good standing).

I love working with experts.

Yikes!
 

Ken Schneider

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I have a question.

If someone was talking to your MC in his mind, as in

MC heard a voice whisper to him, not his own. Don't give up (hope), MC, all is not lost.

How would you denote it.

With ()
Italics, I'd think not.
Unerline, No?
Bold?

Thanks, Ken
 

Duncan J Macdonald

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I have a question.

If someone was talking to your MC in his mind, as in

MC heard a voice whisper to him, not his own. Don't give up (hope), MC, all is not lost.

How would you denote it.

With ()
Italics, I'd think not.
Unerline, No?
Bold?

Thanks, Ken
I heard a voice in my head, "John, turn left."
"What?" I replied.
"Turn left. You won't regret it."
I turned left and the safe which had been in free-fall since the eighty-third floor smashed the pavement instead of my head.
"See?"

Or, in Standard Manuscript Format:

I heard a voice in my head, "John, turn left."
"What?" I replied.
"Turn left. You won't regret it."
I turned left and the safe which had been in free-fall since the eighty-third floor smashed the pavement instead of my head.
"See?"
 

Idea Tailor

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Seeking the wisdom of the sages....
I know my question is a common one, but I haven't fond a definitive answer in my searches so far. Feel free to point me to a different source, it's just I'm feeling all jumpy and can't focus. <Insert cry for help here.>

I know we are supposed to be silent and drive stakes through our hands and nails through our lips while waiting for an agent's response. In addition to body piercing, THE WAIT has given me time to give the first 50 (what was requested) significant revision. Is it okay to contact the agent to resubmit, assuming they haven't yet read what I sent? Or...?

Turning to my most reliable forms of stress relief in the interim.
 

James D. Macdonald

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Steve is correct. Instead of revising the current work, write the next one.

If the agent thinks the work is publishable, and asks for a full, send her the new version. If you have other agents on your list, send them the revised version.

Resolve that your next work (which you are writing right now) won't be sent out until the desire to do major revisions has passed.

And learn from this. The only lesson that is wasted is the one from which you learn nothing.
 

Idea Tailor

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I appreciate the advice.

A bit more information so you don't think I'm simply scattered. I am co-author. An agent offered a contract if we would use a particular (revisions) editor whose name on it would "guarantee" publication. While I ruled that agent out immediately for obvious reasons, author wished to contract with editor for a read-through and comment. Said editor agreed with something I'd been advocating all along (beefing up a particular female character). In the interim, we submitted to another agent.

I'm not sure about "desire" not to edit any more. It's easy to get past wanting to. Needing to is, at least for me at this early stage, harder to know.
 

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Well, sometimes one needs a moment to breath in the midst of a story. Slower scenes don't have to break tension. Though obviously a scene with two characters eating lunch doesn't have the immediate and obvious tension of a scene where two characters are trying to defuse a bomb.

It can, as long as you do it well. The situation is not as important as the conflict that arises from it.
 

Ken Schneider

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I've come to the conclusion that I need to rewrite my entire first chapter.

I'ts just not good enough to query with IMO. I don't want to move chapter three up to the beginning and chapter one down.
It just has to go and, or be made better. I'd rather scrap it and start over. Doesn't have enough pizzaz for me.

I spent all of yesterday reading opening chapters from several pubbed novels.


Mine will never get past the agent or editor. When they only asked for 10 pages they'll never get to the good parts or where the action really takes off.

I kind of had this revelation yeaterday. I'm cutting my nose off to spite my face if I let it go out. Wasted postage, you know.

Anyone else feel this way?
 

motormind

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Mine will never get past the agent or editor. When they only asked for 10 pages they'll never get to the good parts or where the action really takes off.

It bothers me that this would be necessary. My novel starts out normally and gets weirder as it progresses. Starting out with the action would ruin that flow.
 

Ken Schneider

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It bothers me that this would be necessary. My novel starts out normally and gets weirder as it progresses. Starting out with the action would ruin that flow.

When you only get ten pages, they have to grab the reader/agent/editor.

If you don't make then read on, you're sunk.
 

FOTSGreg

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smsarber, I might take you up on that if I knew what you were expert in.

:)

Ken, Maybe you're starting your books in the wrong place? Just a thought...

It took me quite awhile to realize that today you've only got about 200 words to really capture an agent or editor's attention and then only about 5 pages to get them really interested.

Unless you write like Uncle Jim, of course (shameless sucking up).
 

euclid

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Major Revision

Steve is correct. Instead of revising the current work, write the next one.

If the agent thinks the work is publishable, and asks for a full, send her the new version. If you have other agents on your list, send them the revised version.

Resolve that your next work (which you are writing right now) won't be sent out until the desire to do major revisions has passed.

And learn from this. The only lesson that is wasted is the one from which you learn nothing.

Having read Donald Maass's Writing the Breakout Novel, I have undertaken a major revision of my book (which I have been querying: see sig). I should be finished the revision by the end of this week, at which time I intend to resubmit to some (not all) of the agents I submitted to before (including Mr. Maass). The book is just too strong to leave on a shelf. I will also submit it to some new agents, of course, and to the one agent who has already read the whole ms (pre-revision).
 

Ken Schneider

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smsarber, I might take you up on that if I knew what you were expert in.

:)

Ken, Maybe you're starting your books in the wrong place? Just a thought...

It took me quite awhile to realize that today you've only got about 200 words to really capture an agent or editor's attention and then only about 5 pages to get them really interested.

Unless you write like Uncle Jim, of course (shameless sucking up).

I don't know. I'm starting at the begining, nothing comes before the begining. Something comes before the middle, and after the middle, but nothing comes after the end.

It's just that the begining has to be a good beginning, not a moved up third chapter that doesn't fit. I have scene break that wouldn't make sense moved up. Then I'd have to re-write the third chapter to make sense as a first chapter. Why rewrite it to fit a begining when I can just rewrite a good begining.
 

FOTSGreg

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Ken Schneider wrote, Why rewrite it to fit a begining when I can just rewrite a good begining.

My initial response is "To get the story moving".

Action captures a readers (and an agents and editors) attention. Grab 'em first. You can explain the rest of it to 'em later at some leisure, but you gotta' get their attention first.

Think of readers, agents, and editors somewhat like donkeys. There's an old adage that involves a baseball bat and the saying "First, get their attention."

Do not give anyone a chance to set your book aside and stamp "Rejection" on the front page. Hit 'em with your best shot (to use a Pat Benatar metaphor) and then keep hitting them again and again. Start off with an active scene and keep the action moving until there's a reasonable pause to the story. Then explain what you need to before starting the action again.

Think of your readers, agents, and editors like you do your main characters - punch 'em and keep on punching them with your writing. Never give 'em a chance to really come up for more than a short breath at a time. You want them completely immersed in your world and oblivious to your writing, your style, any typos, infodumps, etc., etc.

If you're not willing to kick your characters (and your readers, agents, and editors) when they're down, don't hit 'em when they're standing up.

Figuratively, of course, and meaning with your writing.

:)
 

Ken Schneider

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Yes, but I can get the action going with a new first chapter, versus mucking up the rest of the story.
 

James D. Macdonald

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It bothers me that this would be necessary. My novel starts out normally and gets weirder as it progresses. Starting out with the action would ruin that flow.

No one ever said your book had to start with action.

What it has to start with is a reason for the reader to turn the page.
 

smsarber

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Yes, the beginning is THE HOOK. It doesn't have to be car chases and blown up skirts; action isn't, as we've stated, always physical. To me, action in the hook can simply be the act of introduction. Just make sure to move the story along with that intro. "Hi, I'm Dave. I'm a thirty-three year-old computer programmer with prematurely gray hair." is probably not the best moving intro. "My hair went gray at thirty-three. Maybe that's life, maybe it's stress, I don't know. I work with computers, it used to be my dream. Now it's more of a curse." is a little better, hopefully enough to make my point. Of course, I forgot what my point was...


FOTS, lately the only thing I'm expert in is dirty diapers and putting my foot in my mouth, so if you ever need expertise in those areas... LOL.
 
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