Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

allenparker said:

The trick is to make them think you are their winning hand. It is much easier if your are Aces.
<sorry, couldn't help myself.>

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You do seem to get a lot of these crazy irresistable impulses, naked guy.

Rushie said:

I give authors a pass on the prologue. It's the first sentence of chapter 1 they better wow me with. When I'm in a store deciding whether to buy, I go to Chapter 1, read the first sentence, then skim the rest of that page, looking for a word or line of dialogue that grabs my attention. Then I open it at random in the middle and read a paragraph or two. If what I see is well written and intriguing, and the back cover is enticing, then I might buy it. I might go over the prologue if I'm indecisive, but I don't give it much weight.

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I go to bookstores with lists of books that I've read review of. And I'm never indecisive, at least I don't think so.

Krintar said:

I shouldn't have looked at that. Now I want to read the book

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Ditto here. But I'd have to see the first chapter to understand why that prologue couldn't have just been the first chapter.

Sweet prologue, Mr. Coyote. As I read it, I also wondered why it wasn't chapter one. Look forward to seeing the latest work and this side-by-side.

I was impatient with prologues years ago. As a reader I was willing to slip right into an author's creation, so I didn't appreciate and still don't enjoy the abrupt feeling between prologue and chapter one. It feels like the author didn't trust me, or lacked confidence in his or her story.

My touchie-feelie memories parallel and support your advice to cut the malarky and start with the story--chapter 1.

pictopedia said:

The only existing two types of people: Men and women.
The only existing two types of stories: Good and bad.
The only existing two types of prologues: Necessary and unnecessary for reader involvement.

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What about hermaphrodites, mediocre stories, and prologues important to some readers but not all?

Is that really a prologue, Jim? It reads more like a blurb for the book, to me.

euclid said:

Is that really a prologue, Jim? It reads more like a blurb for the book, to me.

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Scroll down the page, Euclid. The prologue is the part that's labeled "Prologue."

Why it's a prologue:

Because it's a short story, set in the same universe as the rest of the novel, with the same main characters, but separated in time and space from the rest of the action.

James D. Macdonald said:

Scroll down the page, Euclid. The prologue is the part that's labeled "Prologue."

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Right, sorry. I didn't bother going back to your link. I opened the book instead (*ahem*) and found the (12-page) prologue. When I read the book, I did read the prologue, btw.

Time to ask Uncle Jim more personal questions

Uncle Jim, you told me you read Ghost Story before you became a writer, and it was pulished in 1979 (sorry to date you). You also said you wrote a Hardy Boys book as a kid. So I get the impression you were always interested in becoming a writer. So when did the realization it was the only right path for you come? How did you one day decide, "I have to write!"?

For me, I started with poems. This was before I got sober. But after I got sober, writing fiction became a catalyst in my sobriety. Not that writing keeps me sober, but it helps in a theraputic way, a way nothing else seems to. And I won't mess with what works.

Well, I'd wanted to write when I was young. And I did write a lot during middle school and high school. Then one day, when I was 19, I stopped (I even remember the last words I wrote on that occassion). And I didn't write a word of fiction again until I was 35.

I haven't stopped since.

Bravo for starting back up, and not stopping!

James D. Macdonald said:

Well, I'd wanted to write when I was young. And I did write a lot during middle school and high school. Then one day, when I was 19, I stopped (I even remember the last words I wrote on that occassion). And I didn't write a word of fiction again until I was 35.

I haven't stopped since.

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I did the same thing - except you can slide it up a few years.

Gawd I've got a lot of catching up to do. Hope I manage as well as you have.

Same here. I wrote and drew all through middle and high school, got a job as a tech writer in 1982, and then essentially stopped writing until around 1989 or so when I started writing the rules for a wargame. I didn;t start writing fiction again until sometime around 1998 and didn;t start seriously until 2004.

In the interim I had over a million words of non-fiction (mostly proprietary) papers published here and there so I had a buttload of crap to unlearn (and which I am still unlearning).

Going back to prologues for a minute, here's the link to one of my WIPs, so if anyone wants to check it out, feel free, and let me know what you think of the prologue. Warning, not for the faint-hearted.

either neither nor whether

smsarber said:

What about hermaphrodites, mediocre stories, and prologues important to some readers but not all?

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The mediocre stories are bad stories.
The prologues only some readers like are unnecessary for reader involvement
And the hermaphrodites live happily ever after, either dressed up as a man, or a woman.

James D. Macdonald said:

Well, I'd wanted to write when I was young. And I did write a lot during middle school and high school. Then one day, when I was 19, I stopped (I even remember the last words I wrote on that occassion). And I didn't write a word of fiction again until I was 35.

I haven't stopped since.

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You mean to say you're over 35? What a shocker!

smsarber said:

Going back to prologues for a minute, here's the link to one of my WIPs, so if anyone wants to check it out, feel free, and let me know what you think of the prologue. Warning, not for the faint-hearted.

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I'll take a look at that when I'm feeling less faint-hearted.

Meanwhile, take a look at "What Agents Hate"
www.writersdigest.com/article/what-agents-hate/

Tried to extract that prologue and maybe the first 2 chapters so that I could print and take it into the other room to read, but my mouse couldn't pick it up for some reason. Is it posted in SYW or somewhere that I could print from? I think I've read it before, btw.

PS THIS IS POST #1,000.

pictopedia said:

The mediocre stories are bad stories.
The prologues only some readers like are unnecessary for reader involvement

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Yeah, but what I really meant was that all of that is subjective to the individual reading the story. Something I think is great you might think is mediocre, or bad. A prologue can only be useful if people read them, so they can be completely necessary for reader involvement to no avail in many instances--since appearantly many readers don't read them.

Euclid, I don't have this version posted here in AW yet, but maybe I'll shave off the first two chaps+ the prologue and post it in Horror later today.

James D. Macdonald said:

Well, I'd wanted to write when I was young. And I did write a lot during middle school and high school. Then one day, when I was 19, I stopped (I even remember the last words I wrote on that occassion). And I didn't write a word of fiction again until I was 35.

I haven't stopped since.

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I was always curious to know what job you had when you said you would wake up 2 hours before going to work to write.

Post Navy ______________ Pre-full time writer.

That job was US Navy, but I was assigned to an overseas shore command with regular hours. I went directly from Uncle Sam to full-time writer.

Getting too much accomplished? Managing your time well? I have a solution!

Observe, if you will, the narrative web-comic Girl Genius by Phil and Kaja Foglio.

Notice several things:

First, the authors get the story across by means of narrative and dialog. "Narrative," here, is the artwork. The equivalent of the descriptions in your novel. Dialog is dialog.

Your dialog tags are the way the balloons are drawn. Notice that most of the balloons are smooth ovals. But sometimes you'll have jagged balloons or other shapes to indicate shouting, whispering, or other tones of voice. These are rare.

Note too, in long-running narrative (and this story started in 2002 and has been running three times a week for the past six-and-a-half years), that the authors are using positional play. Interesting things are placed in the narrative that aren't picked up again for years, but then become important to the plot. Those things are a) interesting when they first show up, so that they're b) memorable when they're brought back into play. But they also make sense (or at least don't stand out as nonsensical) when they first appear.

One of the limitations of the serial form is that you can't go back and revise if you suddenly discover that you need something in a later chapter. So you have to have interesting/multipurpose things all the way along. Give yourself a large supply of parts with which to build your plot.

Okay, what else do we notice? When there's a huge expository lump, having something else that's inherently interesting going on at the same time. This can be something as simple as having the characters running around while pumping out the exposition, or throwing in a shapely young lady in her undies. (Nothing wrong with cheap tricks as long as they work.)

Pray notice too the smaller narrative arcs, the overall narrative arc, the use of comedy relief, and ending darned-near every page on a cliffhanger.


(People who are looking for a shorter story can check out Revenge of the Weasel Queen.)

And it's time for another first page:

I. Mandeyn: Embrig Spaceport

At well past local midnight in Embrig Spaceport--port of call for the wealthy provincial world of Mandeyn--the Feddisgatt Allee ran almost deserted from the Port Authority offices to the Strip. The warehouses lining the Allee blocked most of the skyglow from the lighted docking areas beyond, and Mandeyn's high-riding moon shed its pale illumination only in the center of the broad Allee.
Beka Rossalin-Metadi whistled an off-key tune through her front teeth as she took a leisurely return walk down the Allee to her ship. The black wool cloak she wore against the cold of Embrig's winter night swirled around her booted ankles, and if she'd put a bit of extra swagger into her stride as she left eh Painted Lily Lounge--well, she figured she was entitled.

Damn right you're entitled, my girl, she told herself. You made a tidy profit on carrying those parts for Interworld Data, and you've got another good cargo already

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Will you turn the page?

smsarber said:

Going back to prologues for a minute, here's the link to one of my WIPs, so if anyone wants to check it out, feel free, and let me know what you think of the prologue. Warning, not for the faint-hearted.

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I am writing this as a reader, not a writer giving advice.

First, you passed the acid test, which is it kept my interest long enough for me to finish it. The writing is smooth, I was pleased with the descriptions of the radio, the song and Len looking in the mirror - even though some say using a mirror as a device to describe the character is cheap, you pulled it off well enough; he caught his reflection as he poured bourbon. We all know there are often mirrors behind bars and we soon find out he had good reason to pour bourbon, so it flowed from the story, it didn't seem contrived. The subsequent action certainly grabbed me and kept me.

Now to the "bad" stuff. The first part of the prologue paints this guy in a positive state of mind. He is happy about the radio. It works with the room. He is happy about how well preserved his body is. You hint something is wrong, but the subtle hint is way under-proportioned to what happens. He is usually hard, but today a calm look, a slight grin. Yes, a sudden calm is common when a person has made a suicide decision, but the "slight grin" coupled with thinking how well his room decor worked, and how good he looks, does not adequately foreshadow or prepare me for what he does. This is limited PoV - I am in his head. So, if you want me to believe that his main thoughts and emotions are on how great the radio worked out and how good his body looks, when in reality he is working up to killing his family and hanging himself, there is only one way I can buy it as you portray it - he has some sort of dissociative identity disorder. You as an author need to explain to me how he could have such a positive state of mind - not because "it's all going to end soon" - but because of minor surface things - and then go end it all. I don't buy that someone about to do these things would look so approvingly at his radio and then leave it, not to enjoy it anymore. You could have added a stronger hint about his plans there: "He remained happy about the decision - too bad he wasn't going to be able to enjoy it anymore." Since you don't give me the hint he won't be around to enjoy the radio anymore, you are withholding from me what he knows. That violates me being in his point of view. The only way that works for me is if he has multiple personality disorder or for some other reason doesn't really know what he is about to do. And if that is the case, I'll need another reason he is pouring himself a bourbon.

Maybe you are doing this. You say his reflection looks different but he can't put his finger on it, and his hand looks different, like he is looking through someone else's eyes. This suggests that he isn't consciously aware of what he's about to do. When I finished the prologue, I said, "that better be the case."

So, as a reader, the whole thing works... IF... further on in the story I discover that he had multiple personalities, or was possessed by a spirit, or under the control of a space robot - whatever - that makes the whole thing hang together. If you don't do that pretty quickly, and I realize you want me to believe a guy about to do this level of violence has NO inner thoughts any darker than the ones you show me, then I feel manipulated by you the author. I feel you are deliberately deceiving me into thinking his state of mind is mild because you are trying to up the shock value of what he does.

Now if that is what you want, you can do it. Use omniscient PoV. Show me what he is doing, but get me out of his head. Don't give me his intimate thoughts about being happy about the radio choice. The radio doesn't "give character to the room" (that is an opinion) but instead use objective description, "the radio's brown tones matched the aged hardwood floor". That's simple fact; observation. Distance. If you get me out of his head and only show me what he is physically doing (pouring bourbon, getting the gun) then I can buy him going and blowing away his family. Have to be careful about the mirror; either don't have him looking in the mirror and just descirbe him (without the self-congratulation) or describe his exterior actions only (he caught himself in the mirror as he poured the bourbon, smiled and pushed a stray lock back into place.) This shows us he approves of what he sees but gets us out of his head.

So to summarize, good prologue in general but one serious flaw. You should either rewrite it from Omniscient PoV, or you should make sure we're included in all Len's thoughts, which should seamlessly prepare us for the shock of what he does. It can be a surprise; you don't have to tell us he is picturing pounding in his wife's face, but we will need a much more appropriate state of mind proportional to his soon-to-be-committed act, so that it feels the action flows naturally from the state of mind you showed us. If you want to leave it in limited PoV as it is, because somehow he doesn't know what he is about to do, I would suggest opening chapter 1 with a different scene, one in which we are given the basis for the story. Is this story going to include space robots? Multiple personalities? Demonic possession? Very soon, I need to say, "Oh, that is why," so I can trust you the author. Otherwise I will put the book down.

So, as written, prologue passed my acid test (and I'm a person who dislikes prologues) but it gives you a bigger challenge: now chapter 1 is going to have to justify the prologue AND hook me in all over again.

James D. Macdonald said:

And it's time for another first page:



Will you turn the page?

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Holy adjectives, Batman. No, I wouldn't. For all the description of location and outfit, the MC hasn't done anything to capture my interest.