Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

Uncle Jim wrote, Uh-oh. Unwritten second volume holds the climax? Let's a) write the second volume, and b) combine it with the first volume to make one book.

No offense intended, sir, but (almost entirely in jest) - Uh, huh. Both books combined will likely run to 150k words or thereabouts. What was that about big books by first timey authors?

Then there's 2 more years rewriting & revising the 2nd book. Then another year or two before it comes out (assuming that happens - ever) after I find an agent to market it. So, 3-4 years from now I might, might, see the book in some form?

At this point, given this advice, and with the sure and certain knowledge that it's virtually impossible for a first timer to get such a large volume published and it's also virtually impossible for a first timer to sell a series, I'm more than ever feeling that all I want to do is set it aside as wasted effort and get going on my other half dozen partials (which have been languishing for lack of attention since I've been paying so much attention to this one) and complete them (along with the dozen or more short stories that have also been pushed aside).

If I set my mind to it I can complete a 75-80k novel in 90 days (I did the first draft of this one in 35 writing days, but the research plus writing required from Jan 1- Mar 28 and it came in at 65k) - Oh, and I was working at the time too (I'm not now and have much more time to spend on my computer banging the keyboard (until such time as I get another day job, that is)).

And just where did this certain knowledge come from??? I would have to suppose that in the sci-fi/fantasy genre, series' by first time authors are not unheard of, if not common.

FOTSGreg said:

Both books combined will likely run to 150k words or thereabouts. What was that about big books by first timey authors?

Click to expand...

First timey author or not, I'd say you've got a much better chance of selling a big book with a complete story and a satisfying ending than you do a shorter book with half a story and a "to be continued" ending.

I think you should heed Uncle Jim's advice.

Scrib, It's highly likely I will.

I guess nobody noticed the (almost entirely in jest) comment or the little smiley at the end.

smbarber, It was meant almost entirely in jest, but I've seen it said in a lot of different places including here on AW that big books and series by first timers are very difficult propositions to push - even harder than getting first time books published. Virtually everything I've read in regards to agents says the same thing - don't tell them it's a series (in my case it's not, really - it's just open ended with no final solution leaving an opening for a sequel), don't try a 150k book right out of the mark.

I'm not criticizing James D. MacDonald, far from it, but I am poking a little fun at him even if it did come at my own expense.

Noticed, and noted. It just didn't seem like as much jest as tongue in cheek. Regardless, write the best book you can. If you decide to make it 150,000 words, or even 500,000, do whatever holds the integity of your work best. If you go longer it may take a bit more effort to get published, but the excitement is in the challenge. Am I right?

James D Macdonald said:

My next suggestion is also going to be work: Take your favorite novel.

Now, retype the first chapter. Do this with your writer's eye, not your reader's eye. Think about the lengths of the sentences, the lengths of the paragraphs, the sounds of the words. Think about the order of the scenes. Notice the dialog. How are the dialog tags rendered? Where is the point of view?

The point of this exercise is this: Have you ever gone to an art museum and seen the art students sitting there with their easels and oils, copying the great masters? The point isn't to turn them into plagairists, or to make them expert forgers. The point is to get the feeling into their hands and arms of how to make the brush strokes that create a particular illusion on canvas. Writing is no less a physical skill than painting. The words are your paints, the sentences your brush strokes. Following a master, asking yourself, always, why. Why did he or she choose this word rather than another? Why was this scene from this particular point of view? Why did the scene end there?

Writing is an art. Everything is there because the artist (that's you!) chose to put it there. The surface meaning, the deeper themes, those are your choice.

I can hear you saying, "Yeah, right, Uncle Jim. You say 'Retype a chapter,' but I bet you never did that."

Wrong-o, my friends. I did just that (I did more -- I retyped entire books). You can find some of them <a href="http://www.sff.net/people/doylemacdonald/lit.htm" target="_new">here</a>, the ones that I still had on disk to convert to HTML and which were in public domain.

At the very worst your typing skills will improve, and that's nothing to sneeze at.

Assignments: Get a copy of Logical Chess Move By Move, and work through the problems. Get a novel that you personally really admire, and retype the first chapter.

Click to expand...

Do you choose different types of books for the typing exercise? I remembered a book I liked because the author created such memorable characters. It's a big book and the chapters are long. She does a good job of combining dialogue with action so there are not a lot of tags. But thus far, I have typed: I lied, he observed, I agreed, I asked (three times), he answered, he admonished, I answered, I said pessimistically, I suggested, I interrupted, he said equably, I said dryly, he muttered, he said in awful tones, he nodded good-humoredly, I said (twice), I observed, he explained (twice), he said absently, he confided, she said, she confided, he asked (twice), she interjected, he remarked.

I also have found "peering interestedly," 'rivetingly fascinating," and other adverbs and adjectives that I have not the least doubt that I'd trip over when reading aloud.

I don't think I want to keep typing this material.

But, this author does create memorable characters and is a good story teller. So my question is: Do I only retype and study the portions of her book where she is developing characters, then find another author who does a great job with action scenes and type those, then another who makes great transitions, etc.?

Is this why you typed so many books?

smbarber wrote, the excitement is in the challenge. Am I right?

Gaaah! But, yes, you're right.

When I was writing this book, the excitement was in the thrill of the writing, the thrill of the pace, the thrill of creating the characters, the dialogue, the scenes, everything - the thrill of the chase as you said..

I let it sit on my shelves for almost 8 months without even looking at the thing after I was done with it.

When I'm "in" the book, revising, editing, cutting, chopping, adding, or whatever, the thrill is still there - it's the actual wading in that I dread, but once I'm in there, it's the thrill of the chase all over again.

My confusion in query hell was that it seemed the query was becoming a somewhat shrunken synopsis. a 150/200 word synopsis. Is that the intent? It seems redundant when one is asked to send a synopsis as well.

Stlight

Stlight said:

My confusion in query hell was that it seemed the query was becoming a somewhat shrunken synopsis. a 150/200 word synopsis. Is that the intent? It seems redundant when one is asked to send a synopsis as well.

Stlight

Click to expand...

Your synopsis might not get read. The query is meant to interest the agent enough to :

a) read the synopsis
b) read the sample chapters.

A and B are meant to grab the agent enough to ask for more.

Just because you send something in doesn't mean they will read all of what you send.

Stlight said:

My confusion in query hell was that it seemed the query was becoming a somewhat shrunken synopsis. a 150/200 word synopsis. Is that the intent? It seems redundant when one is asked to send a synopsis as well.

Click to expand...

Not every agent wants a synopsis.

I just figured the word count for the synopsis section of my (successful) query. It was two paragraphs, 130 words. And really, that's a little long. The first paragraph sets up the situation, which is a little unusual, and the second describes the meat of the plot.

And I didn't include the ending in the query, although it was certainly in the synopsis (which I kept down to a page and a half). Shorter = better.

IMOSHO, the best thing you can do to figure out queries is to read a bunch of successful ones (I included a link to about ten of them in my last post in this thread). Yeah, you'll see a lot of differences between them.

But the important thing is to look at what is the same.

You guys read a lot of agents' blogs, yeah?

I don't know if this will help. It's taken from "30 Steps to Becoming a Writer" by Scott Edelstein:

"Your cover (query) letter should be brief and to the point- normally no more than three or four short paragraphs on a single page. The writing should be clear, concise, and businesslike. Consider a cover letter a communication between professionals, not a sales pitch or advertisement. Prepare each cover letter in standard business letter form, using black ink, single spacing, a standard font and type size, and a letter-quality printer (laser if at all possible).

The first paragraph of your cover letter should describe your submission very briefly, in a single phrase or sentence. For example:
* I'm pleased to send you "The Painted Moon," a short story set in contemporary Zimbabwe.
* I've enclosed a copy of "Borrowing 101," a parent's guide to the Department of Higher Education's higher education loans.
* I wanted you to have a chance to see my most recent feature, "Santa on a Surfboard," a factual but not terribly reverent look at Christmas in Australia.

Your next paragraph should- again, very briefly- present a small amount of information about you. This information must either 1) establish you as an experienced and serious writer, 2) relate your background or experience to your submission in some relevent way, or 3) both. For instance:
* These poems are based on the three years i spent as a child in an Algiers orphanage, which bore little relation to the orphanages here in North America.
* I've been writing fiction for the past two years and have been enjoying you magazine for well over a decade.
* I've published short pieces in two area newspapers, and have an essay forthcoming in the magazine Speakeasy.

You must tell the truth about yourself, of course- though there's nothing wrong with putting the most positive spin on it. (For example, the "pieces in two area newspapers" mentioned above might be brief book reviews in two neighborhood publications." Don't mention anything that will sound trivial, or irrelevant, like your honorable mention in the local Kiwanis Club's writing competition.

If you have nothing relevant to say about yourself- and this is often the case with newer writers- then omit this paragraph entirely.

Your final paragraph is your chance to add a few details pertaining to your submission. First let the editor know that you're enclosing a self-addressed, stamped envelope (or SASE)- and, if appropriate, a floppy disc or CD containing an electronic file of the piece. Your SASE will normally be a regular business-size envelope with a single stamp on it. Include in this paragraph instrucions to recycle or destroy any manuscript that the editor does not with to publish. Conclude this paragraph with a friendlt closing statement of no longer than one sentence.


-There is more, but I haven't the time to type it now. I can copy a sample letter if anyone wants.

Here's the example of the Perfect Cover Letter that I used way back at the beginning of this thread:

I promised you The Perfect Cover Letter:


=========================

Notes:

First NAME OF EDITOR SPELLED RIGHT. (If you can't do this, perhaps you need a new hobby.)

Second: Very briefly: length, genre, and title.

Third: Any pertinent credits. Only the most recent and most prestigious. A good sale ten years ago means that you haven't sold anything since. A bunch of 1/4 cent-a-word recently means that you aren't selling. Don't even bother mentioning self-published or e-publications unless you sold enough on your own to hit the Times Bestseller List. If all you have is one or two lower-tier mags, and they're recent, then you might list them. If you've got eight or ten lower-tier mags and they stretch back over three or four years ... better to leave the impression that you're unpublished rather than brand the Scarlet L of Loser on your forehead.

Fourth: Any special qualifications you may have for writing this book.

Fifth: Any other notes (disposable manuscript).

Your name.

INCLUDE AN SASE.

The primary purpose of a cover letter is to give the editor something with your name, address, and phone number on it that will fit in a file cabinet. The secondary purpose is to give the editor somewhere to put her coffee cup without putting a brown ring on your manuscript.

Be brief, be professional, and SPELL THE EDITOR'S NAME RIGHT.

An editor acquaintance of mine said the following in regards to qeury letters,

Mentioning [a] non-paying webzine as your only fiction credits will be an automatic rejection.

You have to keep in mind that you're competing against thousands of other writers who are trying to sell their novels -- and many of those other writers have pro short-fiction credits.

Occasionally, someone breaks into novel publishing without taking the short-fiction-market stepping-stone path. You might be one of those. But if you mention amateur publications as your only fiction credits, you're announcing that you can't write professional-caliber fiction.

I think you'd be better off saying something like:

I have numerous non-fiction publications, but this is my first novel.

The last was in reference to my publishing credits which are largely non-fiction (newspapers, technical reports & reviews).

"If you have nothing relevant to say about yourself- and this is often the case with newer writers- then omit this paragraph entirely."

In other words, use discretion as to what you choose to reveal about your history. If you have no fiction experience, don't include a non-fiction history in a fiction query.

I went directly from one short-story sale to novels (but it was a good sale -- to a hardcover anthology from HarperCollins).

Yeah, I don't buy into the idea that short stories are a necessary stepping-stone to novel publication either. I can't really write a short story to save myself (they all either end up as really short 1200 words or so or really long above 9500 words).

My editor acquaintance works for a publication that does short stories, however, so he's biased towards them, but (and this is only my opinion after a few run-ins with the guy and a long off-forum email exchange) doubts the ability of newcomers who have not worked extensively with a pro editor. Now, he's a pro, working with a pro level publication, but I still listen to what he has to say - I just dont agree with him a hundred percent of the time and think he's harder than he needs to be with newbies (of which I am one so I'm also biased in that regard).

Thanks everyone. I had a short story credit, two anothlogy credits and a mini publisher book credit, but they went and got way too old, so I'm just leaving that paragraph out. I wish I'd saved the query for the little bitty not too much in the way of distribution and maybe it wouldn't help to have it query, but you never know. I figure I was meant to have a fresh start so okay.

I don't think short stroies are the same as novels at all. I still don't know how I managed to write two of them.

Thanks again
Stlight

Short stories and novels are very different (for all that they are similar).

What short story credits in your cover letter tells the editor is "This person is capable of writing on a professional level; some other editor paid cash for his/her prose."

That's why self-published works aren't helpful. They don't convey any information (unless the work sold something on the order of 5K-10K copies).

With a query letter do you sign with your legal name or your psuedonym? If you sign with your legal name, where should you mention your psuedonym?

a_morris said:

With a query letter do you sign with your legal name or your psuedonym? If you sign with your legal name, where should you mention your psuedonym?

Click to expand...

From what I understand you would not include your psuedonym anywhere in your cover letter. Only at the time you secure a contract. But I'm not 100% positive.

a_morris said:

With a query letter do you sign with your legal name or your psuedonym? If you sign with your legal name, where should you mention your psuedonym?

Click to expand...

You sign with your legal name. (You want the checks to be made out to you, don't you?)

Where the pseudonym comes in, is in the byline:

Half-way down the first page.

(You can also use the pseud in the running head.)

smsarber said:

In other words, use discretion as to what you choose to reveal about your history. If you have no fiction experience, don't include a non-fiction history in a fiction query.

Click to expand...

I'm planning to include nonfiction experience in a query once I get my novel rewritten enough to be publishable. I don't think it would hurt, and it would at least help establish that I don't fall into categories 1, 3, 4, 5, or 6 on the infamous Slushkiller list. (Yes, I know that line below my user name appears on #4; it's kind of a tribute. And a reference to some times I've argued with people who come up with a lot of theory without good hard evidence.)

Odd question

Hi Uncle Jim,

I have sort of an odd question and don't know where else to post it so that's it's being posted here. PHEW! How do you decide what story to write? Two story ideas have been bouncing around in my head and both are very appealing to me. That's the problem. Any ideas?

Calliopenjo said:

Hi Uncle Jim,

I have sort of an odd question and don't know where else to post it so that's it's being posted here. PHEW! How do you decide what story to write? Two story ideas have been bouncing around in my head and both are very appealing to me. That's the problem. Any ideas?

Click to expand...

Work on both; There is no rule that says you can only work on one story at a time. Actually, there are NO RULES to how to approach your work. I usually have a notebook I keep handy with various lines I will write as they come to me. Then I end up adding to two, or three, or more, of them at a time. So besides my novel I may have three or four short stories in various stages of completion at hand. Just do what works best for YOU!

Calliopenjo said:

Two story ideas have been bouncing around in my head and both are very appealing to me.

Click to expand...

Pick one.

Write it until you run out of steam.

Switch to the other. Write it until you run out of steam.

Switch back to the first. Write until you run out of steam....

Continue until you reach "The End" on both of them. Revise them. Then send them out.

And work on a third book.