Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

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CBumpkin

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I'm not your Genial Uncle Jim, nor do I play him on TV. However, there is an excellent link, here on AW, that will answer most of your manuscript questions. It's in the FAQ Board -- FAQ: Cathy C's Formatting Manuscripts for Submission - All your questions answered!

Thank you for the link, Duncan. (Which, by the way, is the name of my MC, so it's amusing that I would receive help from someone named Duncan!) Kismet? ;) Very appreciated.
 

James D. Macdonald

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Jim,

I was just reading about this topic in Miss Snark's archives. Would you agree that her request is pretty standard or more specific to what she would like to see?

It's pretty standard, but you will see variants: Miss Snark wants five pages of sample. Another person might want ten, or thirty, pages. Yet another might ask for three chapters. Someone else might ask for a synopsis and three chapters. Check the guidelines. If no guidelines ... Miss Snark's are good general guidelines. Or the ones in that video. Or the suggestions over at the SFWA.Org site.

But, since those are her guidelines, definitely follow them rather than the advice to send three chapters if you're submitting to her. She doesn't want to see three chapters; she wants to see five pages.

========

Those marks (# for a space, for example) are proofreaders' marks. You can find lists of 'em all over the place.

Yes, you indicate a blank line in your manuscript with a single hashmark centered in an otherwise-blank line. Yes, you indicate italics with a single underline. You indicate boldface with a wavy underline. You indicate small caps with a double underline.

The only way your manuscript will resemble the finished, printed novel is that they will both have the same words in the same order. Visually, they will be very different.
 

Ken Schneider

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Jim, weren't you left in a publishing office to read slush, which you said was great fun/ hilarious?

I'd be willing to bet that one page was enough to know if the writing had merit.

Then again, maybe some agents like to laugh a lot so they want more pages.
 

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Jim, weren't you left in a publishing office to read slush, which you said was great fun/ hilarious?

I'd be willing to bet that one page was enough to know if the writing had merit.

Then again, maybe some agents like to laugh a lot so they want more pages.

One page can tell you it's bad. It takes the whole thing to tell you it's good.
 

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Beta Reader Needs Help

I am critiquing somebody's novel. I find I need to keep Google idling in the background as I read. So admits others complain that reading her stuff is work. Part of it is that her MC is like a black box. You see him doing stuff (in these parts she does a good job of showing) without any apparent reason. Then after the dust settles, he explains (tells) his actions, which includes things he did off-page. Which is the real story.

I have told her what I have said, here. But I'm not sure I'm getting it across. I don't want to use the "R" word, but I think she needs to rewrite it, at least major parts of it. Of course, I don't want to *do* the rewrite; I know how I would do it, but, then that would be me and not her.

Any thoughts?
 

allenparker

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Of course, I don't want to *do* the rewrite; I know how I would do it, but, then that would be me and not her.

Any thoughts?

Help him or her rewrite one scene so that he or she can rewrite the rest. The way to teach a person to change a tire is to have them rotate their own tires. First show them how to take off and replace one tire. Then let them do the others. When they are finished, not only can they rotate tires, they can change a flat, and check their brake linings.
 

RJK

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But Allen, why would I want to put the flat tire on another wheel?:D
 

Andreya

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WOW! I just subscribed to this thread! It's great that it's still alive!! :)

Awesome thread!! Thanks for sharing the info!! :)
/only read the first few pages or so... getting inspired already... lol)
I wish I started reading it back in 2003 when I was still actively working on my WIP! :)
/but maybe then again I didn't need the 'nudge' to just 'sit down & re-write/revise it' lol!! :)/

Gosh, revising/rewriting is harsh... I much prefer 'just writing'... but it takes revision/rewriting to actually finish things.. /sigh/
I once read something that COULD be a great novel, but the person refused to rewrite it, at the time.. Said he didn't want 'fame or fortune' anyway.. just 'had a thing to get it published by a UK publisher' - 'duh'? (I mean, why would a publisher wanna publish it if people wouldn't want to buy it or read it?)

The 'different place/cafe' idea sounds good.... :) might try it, in the future... (might get very odd blank stares in the small town I live in at the moment!! lol)
So do you actually rewrite with a red pen & extra paper in a cafe & just do the 'word input' at the computer? Or...? (I find it difficult to switch between internal 'writer' & internal 'critic/editor/rewriter/Google addict' by the PC! :))
 
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RJK

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Allen, somebody out there is going to take you seriously (and offer suggestions to correct your problem).
 

Andreya

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Yeah, I actually do.

I mentioned them in the acknowledgments for one of my novels, and my author photo for another book was taken there.
WOW, Thanks!! :)

What an awesome idea too!! :) /I bet you get lots of free coffee or so? :) Maybe they even help sell your books? ;)/

So I sticked to your advice for 2 days in a row & now have about 6.000 word short story (target was 5.000 but I haven't done any editing yet!) /Mind you, I haven't writtien anything much for a year, and no finished fiction for a few more years, so this is a *huge* accomplishment!! lol/ - Thank you so much for the tips on Page#1!! :)

Question is, do you print out & edit 'in format' /all, gasp, 29 pages of it??!!/ - i.e. Courier double spacing (that's how I do my writing!) or...? (save trees & mess up format?)
Am really thinking about this one, as it has stopped me from actually printing out & editing longer things before.. Any advice?

Also, do you *ALWAYS* write at the same time of day & edit at another, precisely defined time of day, or.. (as it comes)?

Andreya, who wants to learn to start *finishing* things this time... :)

Big thanks for it all so far!! :)
 

HConn

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Question is, do you print out & edit 'in format' /all, gasp, 29 pages of it??!!/ - i.e. Courier double spacing (that's how I do my writing!) or...? (save trees & mess up format?)
Am really thinking about this one, as it has stopped me from actually printing out & editing longer things before.. Any advice?

I'm not James, but I always print out a manuscript to edit it in format. Even a 400+ page novel.

You catch things on paper that you'd miss on a computer screen.
 

Andreya

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Thanks! I've already printed it out (& took it to the kitchen/bedroom/away from PC) & it *IS* much easier!!

How many times do you go through a manuscript at a time? I've heard people talk of 7 to 18 edits (for a bigger thing), do they just print out a new batch every time, or use older printed out versions for several things at once... Like maybe go through 1st draft 3 times, or figure out ALL things (left vague/off in 1st draft), then enter new stuff & print that out & go over it...?

Sorry if this is such a silly question, I've been wondering about it... :)

Also am at a loss at what to do next, lol. I was supposed to write nonfiction & ended up writing a short story, now I wanna write more chick-lit mystery short stories, but no idea where - or if - I could sell them! :) lol Want to finish a few short things first before I tackle the novel-in-the-trunk (in a bunch of binders & Word files actually). (Or start writing a new one...) 'baby steps'... :)

How do you published guys actually decide what you will be working on, & in what order? & how much time daily do you reserve for editing? If you write 2,500 words/2 hours a day, do you edit 2,500 words/2 hours a day too? /still trying to figure out a basic 'rhythm'!/

...Trying to read this thread from the beginning, but it's a lot of pages with good info to go through!! (A summary with links to 'chapters', or at least a pointer to stuff on editing/revising would be most helpful! :))
/getting distracted by the shiny freelance markets doesn't help! lol/
 

James D. Macdonald

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WOW, Thanks!! :)

What an awesome idea too!! :) /I bet you get lots of free coffee or so? :) Maybe they even help sell your books? ;)/

Nope, I pay for every cup. They're letting me take up a table -- I ought to pay them for it. (And their pastries are wonderful, too. Le Rendezvous, Main Street, Colebrook, NH. Closed Sundays and Mondays.)

They don't sell my books -- they're not a bookstore.


So I sticked to your advice for 2 days in a row & now have about 6.000 word short story (target was 5.000 but I haven't done any editing yet!) /Mind you, I haven't writtien anything much for a year, and no finished fiction for a few more years, so this is a *huge* accomplishment!! lol/ - Thank you so much for the tips on Page#1!! :)

Go, you! Now revise and rewrite until it shines.

Question is, do you print out & edit 'in format' /all, gasp, 29 pages of it??!!/ - i.e. Courier double spacing (that's how I do my writing!) or...? (save trees & mess up format?)
Am really thinking about this one, as it has stopped me from actually printing out & editing longer things before.. Any advice?

The reason you want to use standard manuscript format is because it leaves lots of room for making changes in pencil. Double space Courier 10 with one-inch margins. Really. Red pencil. And take along a pencil sharpener and an eraser.

Also, do you *ALWAYS* write at the same time of day & edit at another, precisely defined time of day, or.. (as it comes)?

Nope. Different times. But use what's good for you.

Andreya, who wants to learn to start *finishing* things this time... :)

Big thanks for it all so far!! :)

Nothing teaches you how to write better than actually writing. And the only way to learn to finish is ... finish.
 

James D. Macdonald

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Thanks! I've already printed it out (& took it to the kitchen/bedroom/away from PC) & it *IS* much easier!!

Toldja so!



How many times do you go through a manuscript at a time? I've heard people talk of 7 to 18 edits (for a bigger thing), do they just print out a new batch every time, or use older printed out versions for several things at once... Like maybe go through 1st draft 3 times, or figure out ALL things (left vague/off in 1st draft), then enter new stuff & print that out & go over it...?

It varies. Mess with it until it seems good. Enter the changes. Then print it out again (if there were big changes) or continue with your paper copy until it gets too messy to use (if that works for you).

Sorry if this is such a silly question, I've been wondering about it... :)

There's no right answer. There's what's right for you, and you only find that out by trying various ways until you find one that clicks.


Also am at a loss at what to do next, lol. I was supposed to write nonfiction & ended up writing a short story, now I wanna write more chick-lit mystery short stories, but no idea where - or if - I could sell them! :) lol Want to finish a few short things first before I tackle the novel-in-the-trunk (in a bunch of binders & Word files actually). (Or start writing a new one...) 'baby steps'... :)

Take your story and, when it's totally the best you can make it, send it out (to paying markets only) until Hell won't have it. Never let it sleep over. If it comes back, put it in the mail that same day to the next place on your list.

Where to submit? Where do you read?

Or, go over to duotrope and do a search for markets.


How do you published guys actually decide what you will be working on, & in what order? & how much time daily do you reserve for editing? If you write 2,500 words/2 hours a day, do you edit 2,500 words/2 hours a day too? /still trying to figure out a basic 'rhythm'!/


Again, no real answer. What works for you is what's best for you.

...Trying to read this thread from the beginning, but it's a lot of pages with good info to go through!! (A summary with links to 'chapters', or at least a pointer to stuff on editing/revising would be most helpful! :))
/getting distracted by the shiny freelance markets doesn't help! lol/

There is just such an index here.
 

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It is with great joy that I report that my elder daughter has sold her first novel, a paranormal romance, to Tor.

She submitted it unagented, and under a pseudonym (so no one would know it was her).

The book, Salt and Silver, by "Anna Katherine" will be coming out next year sometime.
 

Sailor Kenshin

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It is with great joy that I report that my elder daughter has sold her first novel, a paranormal romance, to Tor.

She submitted it unagented, and under a pseudonym (so no one would know it was her).

The book, Salt and Silver, by "Anna Katherine" will be coming out next year sometime.


Congrats to her!
 

CBumpkin

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It is with great joy that I report that my elder daughter has sold her first novel, a paranormal romance, to Tor.

She submitted it unagented, and under a pseudonym (so no one would know it was her).

The book, Salt and Silver, by "Anna Katherine" will be coming out next year sometime.

Runs in the family, I see! Congratulations Jim! You must be busting your buttons proud!
 

HConn

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It is with great joy that I report that my elder daughter has sold her first novel, a paranormal romance, to Tor.

She submitted it unagented, and under a pseudonym (so no one would know it was her).

The book, Salt and Silver, by "Anna Katherine" will be coming out next year sometime.


Congratulations to her!
 
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