Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

Status
Not open for further replies.

RHQ

Registered
Joined
Mar 10, 2008
Messages
33
Reaction score
2
Location
Michigan
Website
www.redheadedquilter.com
Hello from a newbie

I only joined AW about a week ago. I soon found this thread and it is all I've been reading in my spare time since! Thank you Mr. MacDonald for such an informative thread! I have read many books on writing, but none of them gave such down to earth and understandable advice as you do.

I will soon be published. My first book is called Open Your Heart with Quilting and is due out in August 2008 from Dreamtime Publishing. (And to steal a bit from UJ - Buy one! Buy a dozen! Pre-order now!) I know that's a non-fiction title, but it's a start and I'm just thrilled that I'll have an actual book in the stores!

Since starting to read this thread (I'm only up to page 98!) I have used your index card method to outline a novel that has been percolating in my brain since last fall. About a month ago it finally came to me how to tell a story I've been mulling over and using the index cards helped me organize my thoughts.

I had never thought of writing in terms of individual scenes, but that has helped me see where I need to add or subtract certain things that I just assumed would be included (or not). I copied my outline notes into a spreadsheet because I find that more user-friendly than the cards. I added columns to indicate which characters are in a given scene, whose POV it is told from, who the main character is, and other details. Now I can sort by any of those criteria with just a click (which is a lot easier than reorganizing a mess of cards!)

I have started allotting some time every day to BIC - but not two hours. With other things going on in my life right now (planning a wedding for one) that's not feasible, but I did write first drafts of two scenes the other night, so I'm making progress. Since I earn my living at something other than writing, I don't mind taking my time.

Anyway, thank you for this thread! I'll try to catch up!

And I am amazed to see that this thread is still alive 4 years after it started!

RHQ aka Kelly aka RedHeadedQuilter
 

Ken Schneider

Absolute sagebrush
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 27, 2005
Messages
1,977
Reaction score
414
Location
location,location.
Say what? The Lord of the Rings was incredibly popular in the mid-sixties, and hasn't stopped since. (Do you recall the text on the back of the Ballantine edition, "Those who approve of courtesy, at least, to living authors...."?) Do you remember the Ace Books pirate edition?

Yes, The Sword of Shanara was as close to plagiarism of The Lord of the Rings as copyright law would allow. Lester Del Rey knew it, but figured (correctly) that he'd make a ton of money by publishing it.

I stand corrected with a cavet.

Peter Beagle writes in a forward,(1973) in my addition of the Hobbitt:

It had been 15 years since he discovered the book in the Carnegie library in Pittsburg after searching for it for four years, when the book/s were hard to find, after reading a review by W. H. Auden's in the NY times.

I would have been better served to say that the trilogy didn't burst onto the scene with widespread popularity until years after it's first printing in 1937. It took many years for the reading public to accept and catch-up with this portion of his excellent body of work.

Tolkein died in '71.
 

Mr Flibble

They've been very bad, Mr Flibble
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
18,889
Reaction score
5,029
Location
We couldn't possibly do that. Who'd clear up the m
Website
francisknightbooks.co.uk
I would have been better served to say that the trilogy didn't burst onto the scene with widespread popularity until years after it's first printing in 1937. It took many years for the reading public to accept and catch-up with this portion of his excellent body of work.

Tolkein died in '71.

It was first published in 1954 ( the Fellowship), and had a reasonable following straight away ( all those who grew up on the Hobbit, which was first issued in 1937, and sold every one of its copies in three months) . Ok, it took till the sixties to get mega popular, but still, the Lord of the Rings was only written / published because the Hobbit was so poular. . Tolkien was definately alive to witness the sucess of LOTR, because he complained about people ringing him at 3 in the morning to ask if the balrog had wings or not.

Edit :A quick check reveals that:

Despite the book's popularity, paper rationing brought on by wartime conditions and not ended until 1949 meant that the book was often unavailable in this period

which would account for it being difficult to get hold of in 1952 ( ie 15 years after publication)
 
Last edited:

pdr

Banned
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
4,259
Reaction score
832
Location
Home - but for how long?
Just to say...

that 'Lord of the Rings' was a British book and published there first. There were, and still are, conventions about where a book may be sold depending on where it was published. British published books did not go into the USA until they had a US publisher.

I believe this is why Americans had such a problem buying the book.
In the UK the book was a steady seller from the first edition.
 

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle
Absolute Sage
VPX
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
25,582
Reaction score
3,785
Location
New Hampshire
Website
madhousemanor.wordpress.com
Bizarre copyright regulations put The Lord of the Rings in the public domain in the USA, which is why Ace was able to publish a pirate edition without the author's approval (or paying him any royalties). That's why the Ballantine edition, which was registered in the USA, is substantially different from the British first edition (among other things, Aragorn's sense of humor was removed in the revision process).
 

roseangel

Crazy Young Cat Lady
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
510
Reaction score
26
Location
Off in my head.
I just finished this whole thread and I want to say thank you so much Uncle Jim!
You are the best teacher ever.
Everything you have said has made so much sense!
I also find it very interesting that the only Tom Swift book I have ever read is by you.
 

RHQ

Registered
Joined
Mar 10, 2008
Messages
33
Reaction score
2
Location
Michigan
Website
www.redheadedquilter.com
Advice for a story told in different time periods

Can anyone give me advice about how to elegantly blend two story lines taking place at different times in history?

My main present day character finds a cache of documents (scrapbooks, journals, photos, postcards, letters, etc.) relating to a tragedy that happened in her house years before. Her life somewhat mirrors the life of the main historical character. I want her to slowly uncover the older story through her reading of the documents she finds.

Meanwhile stuff will be happening in her own life too. Right now I am planning to put her scenes in separate chapters with excerpts from the documents in their own chapters. Does that make sense? Or is it one of those "Write it and see how it feels" deals?

I don't have a good handle on the ending yet (I know what will happen, but am wondering how to make it dramatic enough), but I do like my opening. I had a revelation about a relationship between two characters the other night that will require some tinkering with the outline and maybe some new plot threads, but beyond that I think I have a good idea of where I am headed and I am looking forward to some BIC time this weekend!

Thanks in advance!
Kelly
 

CutteRug

Registered
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
15
Reaction score
1
Location
Fairfax, California
Hi Kelly, welcome!

Having read this entire thread and seen that on many occasions, UJ's advice is to 'read a book in which what you are trying to do is done well', I'll chime in with a suggestion...

Read "Splintered Icon" by Bill Napier. It does an admirable job of marrying its current-day storyline with an unfolding drama of a sixteenth century man whose long-lost diary the current-day characters are translating and reading.

It sounds like a fair example of what you're going for. Hope it helps!

Cheers,

Adam
 

RHQ

Registered
Joined
Mar 10, 2008
Messages
33
Reaction score
2
Location
Michigan
Website
www.redheadedquilter.com
Hey thanks Adam. I'll look for it!

I'll check my local library and hope they have it. They told me the other day that they can no longer order in books from other places due to state budget cuts. :-( (I was looking for some of the books UJ recommended, but no luck.)

Thanks again,
Kelly

Hi Kelly, welcome!

Read "Splintered Icon" by Bill Napier. It does an admirable job of marrying its current-day storyline with an unfolding drama of a sixteenth century man whose long-lost diary the current-day characters are translating and reading.

It sounds like a fair example of what you're going for. Hope it helps!
 

aonarach

Not all who wander are lost
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 29, 2008
Messages
86
Reaction score
17
Location
Lorain, OH
Hey thanks Adam. I'll look for it!

I'll check my local library and hope they have it. They told me the other day that they can no longer order in books from other places due to state budget cuts. :-( (I was looking for some of the books UJ recommended, but no luck.)

Thanks again,
Kelly

just thought i would chime in with another book suggestion: the historian by elizabeth kostova.
 

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle
Absolute Sage
VPX
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
25,582
Reaction score
3,785
Location
New Hampshire
Website
madhousemanor.wordpress.com
I'm just back from I-con, where we did a little workshop (which I participated in).

During one of the sessions I had an insight into the employment of characters in short stories:

Use 'em, abuse 'em, or lose 'em.

I trust I do not need to unpack that?

=============

The Historian? As it happens, post 4812 in this very thread is the first two pages from that work, as we play "Would you turn the page?"

=============

And welcome, roseangel! What are you working on?
 

alvin123

Author of Hell to Pay (Blood for S)
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
503
Reaction score
27
Location
Stationed in MS
Website
www.alvinjatwater.com
Beginnings.... ouch.... for me that is.....

I'm just not good with begginings such as chapter one or a prologue. I KNew i was going to end up not having any readers enjoy those chapters, but i just don't know how to start off with the appropriate begging in order to grab readers.
 
Last edited:

BlueLucario

Blood Elves FTW
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 1, 2007
Messages
2,627
Reaction score
220
Location
South Florida
Beginnings.... ouch.... for me that is.....

I'm just not good with begginings such as chapter one or a prologue. I KNew i was going to end up not having any readers enjoy those chapters, but i just don't know how to start off with the appropriate begging in order to grab readers.

I agree with Jim. Beginnings tend to suck the first time anyway. If you MUST write a beginning, think of how a movie starts.
 

Marian Perera

starting over
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 29, 2006
Messages
14,333
Reaction score
4,578
Location
Heaven is a place on earth called Toronto.
Website
www.marianperera.com
If you MUST write a beginning, think of how a movie starts.

I don't agree with this advice. A lot of movies start with a view of the mountains or the Golden Gate Bridge or whatever before they show us the main character. Starting with description of the landscape in a novel will often lose readers. Some movies start with an expository crawl. That might not work too well in a novel either.

Movies =/= books.
 

Perle_Rare

Dragon rider
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
529
Reaction score
164
Location
Lurking somewhere in dark places...
I believe Uncle Jim has it right: Write to the end and then come back and figure out where the beginning really is. You might be surprised to find that the beginning is really in the middle of chapter 4 or it might be before anything you've written yet. You might even find you have to re-write the beginning to match the great ending you just wrote!

So don't sweat it till you've gotten to "The End" (as Uncle Jim says). By then, the right beginning should become fairly obvious.

... of course, I haven't gotten to "The End" yet so it's all theory to me... but I already know my beginning has to be changed to match with the way my WIP is going so I figure the advice is sound and I'm certainly planning to follow it!
 

SkyeSurfer

Registered
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Messages
29
Reaction score
4
Hello all I have hopped around through these posts a bit and find I have much homework to do. I am in awe of how much information is here and how valuable it is- I would remiss without mentioning though- CAN WE GET A LINK TO HERE WHEN PEOPLE ATTEMPT TO PUBLISH WITH CERTAIN PLACES THAT WILL KILL THEIR JOY AND INTEREST IN WRITING? Please tell me PA and WLA read these posts.
Ok, better now- I am gonna retype Stephen King and learn all I can so when I get my custody of my child back I will be better prepared this time around- Thank you so much for.... it all. There is still so much to see and learn here! I am in heaven which is fair since I just left hell.
 

Komnena

In Honor of Peter Tomich,USS Utah
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
13,917
Reaction score
2,071
Location
King Louie's town
My first draft is so awful I don't think there's any salvaging it.
 

Nangleator

Rep Point Whore
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 4, 2005
Messages
408
Reaction score
59
Location
Dracut, Massachusetts
Then it was good writing practice. And good editing practice. And good typing practice.

In your upcoming works, pick over it like a Thanksgiving turkey on Saturday. Pull out the good bits and be ready to discard the carcass.
 

allenparker

Naked Futon Guy
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 14, 2005
Messages
1,262
Reaction score
234
Age
63
Location
Virginia
Website
www.allenparker.net
Better Yet

Or better yet, spend some time on the first couple of chapters and fix them, even if it means rewriting the entire chapters.

Even of there is no salvation in the work, it will be great practice at editing. Who knows, you might find the story is not dead an can be fixed.

Just a thought...
 

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle
Absolute Sage
VPX
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
25,582
Reaction score
3,785
Location
New Hampshire
Website
madhousemanor.wordpress.com
My first draft is so awful I don't think there's any salvaging it.

Then your second draft will surely be better.

Have you left your book to marinate in your desk drawer for three months while you worked on something else? Books that suck immediately after you've finished them often improve just by letting them age.

Print the whole thing out. Get a couple of red pencils and a sharpener. Go to a coffeehouse or a library. Read your manuscript page-by-page, scribbling all over it as you find things that can be moved, changed, fixed, made better, deleted, expanded, or reshuffled to a different POV.

Go back and retype.

Or... try retyping your book entirely from memory.

I know a writer who creates her second drafts by re-keyboarding the book. If it isn't worth retyping a passage, that passage it isn't worth reading.
 

nybx4life

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 11, 2008
Messages
337
Reaction score
25
Location
Bronx, NY
I'm currently working on my first chapter (revising it, I should say), and the biggest criticism of them all appears in my face: YOUR TENSES ARE MESSED UP

Of course, the last time I checked into a grammar lesson was years ago.
I know my work would really be a good read if I can get my grammar fixed up.
Any advice, exercises, things I should know?

Yes, yes, I know I should be ashamed for not having good grammar, but I'm trying to make up for it by tightening up that screw now
 
Status
Not open for further replies.